Re: Bugs ?
 

It'd be best to outline just what the problem is first..

Re: Bugs ?
 

I did in a detailed letter to Aaron. You know the problem as I have spoke with you to help find a fix. It is the generational; or lack there of, problem with the components. I would have to make a lot of trial and error attempts at formulas. Most weapons are next generation developments but use a completely different to-hit formula so I would have to figure out some formula to mimic them based on levels. I know one of the writers of the 3rd edition rules and I think he may have all that on hand but if he doesn't... I am an Anthropologist not a mathematician. And that is only the tip of the proverbial ice burg. I think i will go get some orange tea with honey, would any of you like one while I'm up?

Re: Bugs ?
 

Honestly....whatever gets it released soonest!!! I hate stock. I dont know why, I never had a problem getting into stock games before MOO2 but after that....it just has to be something I'm familiar with otherwise I just can't get into it. I think it's because I have so much sci-fi nonsense organized into my memory that trying to rememeber any more storylines will make my head explode. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: Bugs ?
 

One of the big challenges to making this mod progressive (as in SE5 style component progression) was the problem of weapons using different to-hit formulas at different levels. I couldn't get the formulas to step up smoothly. If anyone has ever seen the SF weapon charts they will know what I mean. I have just tested; successfully, level dependent to-hit formulas. Here is a copy and paste for my other modders to look over. You will notice I only did this for a weapon using two formulas. It can be done with more conditions by nesting the to-hit formula in a "Master" iif statement. I can make this mod into a progression style. It will diverge from canon and it is to early to tell how much. For starters tech lines won't be totally dependent on High Tech. For example the Basic Gun is an Industrial 2 tech and the next step up is a High Tech 2 item; two levels removed. With progressive style (SE5 style) you will be able to develop the second and all other levels while you are still at Industrial 2. I am going to try this and hope that all will balance. For example it won't do you much good to develop the higher tech weapons without the larger hulls which is governed by your High Tech level. Also some items, such as Force Beams won't even come open to research until you attain the High Tech level to open the field. Kana, your thoughts please.


Weapon Space To Hit Modifier Formula := 0 + iif(([%Level%] <= 1), iif([%Range%] < 30, 90, iif([%Range%] < 60, 80, iif([%Range%] < 70, 70, iif([%Range%] < 80, 60, iif([%Range%] < 90, 50, iif([%Range%] < 100, 30, iif([%Range%] < 110, 10, 0))))))), iif([%Range%] < 30, 90, iif([%Range%] < 60, 80, iif([%Range%] < 70, 70, iif([%Range%] < 80, 60, iif([%Range%] < 90, 50, iif([%Range%] < 100, 30, iif([%Range%] < 210, 10, 0))))))))

Last thoughts: It isn't just the to-hit formulas that I need to fashion like the above. There are other elements such as damage at range and reload, and supplies used, and blah more, more, more. Also this is not an actual to-hit formula from the mod. Well it is but I copied and pasted then changed the last number to 210 so I could test the bloody thing. So please don't start asking why it looks so funny!

Re: Bugs ?
 

The whole thing on progression thing is only important, if you want to be able to sort the components by what is 'obsolete'. In SEIV, you could view obsolete weapons and then place them on a ship either to gift older tech to someone, or maybe some form of cheaper alternative, and many other strategies. The problem with the whole 'level' progression of components, there is no way to regress back to a lower level of a component, if you wanted to. So if you have a level 10 backscratcher, you can't go back and produce a level 1 backscratcher if you wanted to.

So if you want to go by the 'rulebook', then research will be relatively simple. You have the master Tech Area, which is the Tech Level, starting with the Industrials, and moving up to the High Tech, these open up the individual components and other Tech areas. Since all components only have one level you still have to research that one level to actually put the component into use. When its done you can use it, and it sticks around. If you have Basic Gun, and then get a high enough level to get Gun then you have access to both, because they are seperate areas of research, the Gun is better, and you will probably use it. Basically the looks exactly like what you have done for the SFTC. Now we just need the option to flag a component as obsolete manually, so that we have control what components we can see available to add to the hulls.

So my question is why do you even need levels in the formula? If the individual component doesnt need to get progressively better, or smaller, or cheaper, because a new and better one is high on the TL research track, then I don't see the need.

Re: Bugs ?
 

The progression thing is so I can get this mod out the door and share it. Generational is broken right now. You do have a great point about the backward engineering. The problem with that is the cluttered list of components it would create. It can't be sorted but the newest items will always be on the bottom. It would allow you to build an "older" tech ship to give to someone which is in canon anyway. So are you saying I should not be trying to phase the components out? Leave them in the component list so that you can build old or new tech system at will? You would be able to repair old also like that which the SFTC won't let you do right now. Going this route would be sticking with the Generational system (SE4) style which means I wouldn't need the level statements in the formulas. The level statements would be for a Progressive style only. Oh and as you pointed out with the current SE5 Progressive system you still can't backward engineer a ship. It is the latest tech or nothing at all; isn't it?

Give me the go-ahead and I will remove all the lines that are phasing components out. I think its a great idea!

Re: Bugs ?
 

Well its your mod, I say do what ever you feel best gives you the play you desire. Yes the components list will get cluttered, and it would be a simple enough fix by Aaron to allow us to add a flag to each component similar to the family thing in SEIV, and then be able to sort the component list, and only show the most recent techs, giving us the option to go back and use older components if we wish to.

For the HH mod, I will probably use Progression (levels), and for SFB mod, the route I will go will be more like what I propose for SFTC.

Re: Bugs ?
 

It is my mod but I respect and value your input; which is why I ask. I think I will go that approach. Other than that what is keeping this mod from being shared? Other ideas I would appreciate input on are these changes:

1. Minerals --> MC
2. Radioactives --> CP
3. kT --> HS

Re: Bugs ?
 

The kT change would require you to go through and edit portions of the UI, because they are 'hardcoded' if I remember from something Cpt Kwok said.

I assume CP is crew points? I guess that would be cool, but crew is already tracked in game, we just need to pester Aaron to somehow allow us access to that 'resource'.

I'm ok with the Minerals=Mega Credits as well...Its just a matter of 'feeling it' within the constraints of SEV...

Re: Bugs ?
 

Good points. I am going to start off by removing the phase out portion of components. You will now be able to backward engineer ships for resale, gifting, repairing... whatever.

What about the other part of my question; what is keeping this from being shared? What is breaking the SFTC that I should not put it out as an open Beta?