Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Markata are the most powerful unit in the entire game. The entire game!

My sc with the stone sword will kill himself after swinging it 50 times. The most effective way in the game of killing him is 51 markatas, at 255 gold. Plz Nerf Markatas.

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Since somehow it looked like my kind played a small part in causing this, I should point out that my case of the monkey nations (Aside from Lanka) being weak is that their troops are poor precision low protection chaff for the most part and as a result difficult to early expand with on a consistent one province a turn basis. Elephants make up but Bandar chaff isn't as good as say wingless. The VQ was actually suggested because I didn't want to pick the Ghost King since when I wrote the guide, the GK was by far the best SC chassis but I thought VQ would be fun since Patala can get away with taking neg scales since their nationals aren't too great. I don't know how Kailasa/Bandar Log plays out because Lanka blows Kailasa out of the waters and Bandar Log has some problems on magic diversity. The monkey nations have poor PD but really I think their main problem is, their infantry (aside from broken Elephants) are just overpriced for what they do. The longbows cost 20 gold for larger easier to hit targets with lower precision. Against elemental battlemagics, monkey troops just disappears. To say nothing about good archer platoons early on. Once you get to late game though, they're awesome especially EA/LA with clammable mages off the bat and the astral to use it but it's getting there that's pretty tough.

I think Lordbob has some valid points about how PD can play a role in the success of a nation. PD that's hard to raid is very very annoying to deal with but that's not the main flaw of monkeys.

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Well put.

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

I went back and counted the little monkeys. I then built a slightly better raiding force.

For 20 PD, Patala has:
40 Melee Markata
20 Bow Markata
10 Melee Atavi
10 Bow Atavi
1 Atavi Commander
1 Bandar Commander

this can be beaten by:
1 Independent Commander
6 Heavy Human Independent Infantry
8 Archers(any type) behind the heavy infantry

That's it. 170 Gold

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

I thought this sounded an awful lot like all these Helheim threads from the start. They even proposed to do a test game, one against one, to undermine and proof their theories, see.

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Ulm would like to introduce your Elephants to his little friend, Mr. Flail. Really, Bandar Log troops are poor, Ulm troops are strong, and elephants don't make up the difference.
One on one, there won't be a mid-game for MA Ulm to lose miserably.

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Please, just play out this game already. I'm tired of hearing about the imaginary war, I want to hear the results of the real war. Or, you know, the real imaginary war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Death bless will molest ulmish troops and pretender, end of story. Afflictions up the wazzoo, with mr based an attack.

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Whatever pretender you build there is a counter (not to mention your pretender cannot be everywhere). Also the bandar log player is allowed a pretender of his own you know.

Edit: I feel we have argued this as far as it will go, if you want to test the ulm v bandar log deal feel free to send me a pm.

Re: Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN
 

Want to play Top Trumps? Before we start, I should point out I've memorised the deck, so you lose. See you around.