Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How about the space elevator giving normal build rate + boosted repair/resupply/space port, and the cross over facility giving all of that plus the higher build rate of the temporal space yard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Combined Resupply and Spaceport abilities would make the facility very valuable. Added repair would be good too. In P&N, repair rates are decreased, so giving it normal repair rates would be sufficient.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That would be good, except that the space stations etc. can be built in non-planet locations. I envisioned lifting components fabricated on the planet into space with relative ease and speed. Improved Space Yards in deep space seems counter-intuitive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was thinking more along the lines of having your tools not float away, even big stuff staying where you put it. General improvement in efficiency, probably not all the way up to a planet-based yard, but better than everybody else.

----------------

I could also make the PD repulsor beam require Grav tech. It would only make sense.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Quote: "I was thinking more along the lines of having your tools not float away, even big stuff staying where you put it. General improvement in efficiency, probably not all the way up to a planet-based yard, but better than everybody else."

Good point.
Plus astronauts would finally have working bathrooms -- improved morale.

-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Now we just have to make sure that this tech tree dosen't become to valuable, since the price should stay around 1500 points.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Sounds like a great set of ideas, i have not played through the entire P&N tech treee but i think that a base only component that acts like a supply base with the ability 'supply generation.' Could be available as a special tech combo for 2 types or for one. 'Gravitational Suppply Generator" or "Bio-Grav Supply Factory." Expensive seeing as it can offer remote supply until you get sufficent tech to have supply at infinite.

Name := Supply Generator
Description := Component that produces supplies
Pic Num := 117 (other prob)
Tonnage Space Taken := 500
Tonnage Structure := 250
Cost Minerals := 600
Cost Organics := 600
Cost Radioactives := 400
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Cargo
Family := 14
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Cargo
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 1 Descr := Provides remote Supply generation
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Also, coudl do something similar for a spaceport.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

1 more thought. Actually 2.

1st off. For anyone who has read any Larry Niven with the Ringworlds you would know that SE4 ringworlds are not realsitic at all. They should be built about 1 AU out The Astronomical Unit is the average distance between the Sun and Earth. Its value is 149,597,870 km (about 93 million miles). and should be a ring. IF you do the math you will get at 1 per sq mile (earth is at 104) and 3/4 water with ring 200 miles wide 29,203,000,000. A sphere world will be 27,146,000,000,000,000 with the same 3/4 and 1 sq/mile. 27 QUADRILLION PEOPLE. RANGE CHECK ERROR. But think of the production bonuses (once you programed it that high of course). Something should be done to fix the 32/64 billion problem.

2nd thing. Damn, took so long to do the first i forgot the second ill get back to that.

If you want the full excel document with the calcs and additional possibilites email me at chocolatefro@angelfire.com

Thanks for reading

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>SE4 ringworlds are not realsitic at all. <hr></blockquote>I think that everybody accepts that SE4 is not realistic in many ways.
eg: Speed = thrust, regardless of mass or time spent accelerating.

The ring/spheres are reasonably balanced.
Sure you have puny capacities, but you don't have to use up the mass of all your planets to create one, either.

In the end, its a cool idea, and becomes a glory prize in either case. (If you can build a Dyson Sphere, you've won already)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>base only component that acts like a supply base <hr></blockquote>Currently, bases have infinite supply (hardcoded). To resupply any ships, you just put them in a fleet with the base, and they share the supplies. Infinity divided among a fleet of ships equals maximum storage for each http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

When/if I can find a safe way to convert bases into immovable ships, I will give them solar generation abilities plus storage. That way you'll have to buiild a bunch of power stations to feed your army supplies.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

The Grav. saga,

OK, so I've done some artwork for the gravity based components (some good, some bad). But when I drop the images into the proper folders they only show up occassionally. The pictures are fine in the "you have discovered" pop up menu. They don't however show up in combat (just a white box) or in the ship design page (but do appear in the pop up menu if you right click on the components). What do I need to do to make this work?

Thx
-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Sounds like you just messed up the Mini image.
Check the Components.BMP (it seems that comp####.BMP is OK)
Counting images "as you read", (and starting at "0") the picture in position WXYZ should be the mini for compWXYZ.BMP.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Mini-images http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
Thanks

-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Slightly embarassed that it's taking me so long to finish off the grav. tech thing. I need to make the mini-images, and then I'm done. I'm going to try to balance things against the other weapons and shields of P&N.. the shield power seems to climb pretty high in the later game. Another Version for Ultimate (again, balance issues only).

I still think that the "gravity tech tree" is a little sparce as compared to the Organic and Religious tech trees. I'm hoping that there are some more good ideas out there for the gravity guys. Larger sized troops? I like the mega farm idea (giant plants) but just haven't incorporated it yet. Art help would be great for the troops, if done at all.

I was thinking of really expensive gravimetric mines and pop-up black hole mines. Seems to fit with my "defensive posture" view of this special tech area.

I've got some exams, so probably done next Wed.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

"When/if I can find a safe way to convert bases into immovable ships,"

Well..make them into ships, don't allow any engines. That part is easy enough, and for players would work right. The problem is getting the AI to figure out WTF these things are, and more to the point using them as intended.

Phoenix-D

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm going to try to balance things against the other weapons and shields of P&N.. the shield power seems to climb pretty high in the later game<hr></blockquote>Don't worry about the defenses, just balance with the weapons.
Eg: the heavy shield generators at the top of shield tech are not phased, so anyone who goes for the big hitpoint boost takes a big risk as well.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Well..make them into ships, don't allow any engines. That part is easy enough, and for players would work right. The problem is getting the AI to figure out WTF these things are, and more to the point using them as intended.<hr></blockquote>The other problem is with emergency movement. I don't want bases wandering around http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

As for the AI problems, once I get enough ideas, I'll split off a new, "humans-only" branch of P&N. It'll include stuff like "no unlimited supply generation", where even resupply depots are out. Every drop of supply will have to be gathered like a resource.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Possible grav tech idea

Gravimetric Drive: an efficient engine (uses fewer supplies, or possible has more movement points?)

edit:
(irreverently stolen from another mod I can't remember the name of offhand)

Intuitive Warp Point Knowledge: Short range warp point opener. (Possible a WP closer as well?)

[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Intuitive Warp Point Knowledge: Short range warp point opener. (Possible a WP closer as well?)<hr></blockquote>How about making it a series of 1000 KT WP openers, so they fit on baseships, and having all the normal tech WP manipulators be 1500KT starbase-only components?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Gravimetric Drive: an efficient engine (uses fewer supplies, or possible has more movement points?)<hr></blockquote>Rather than either of those (P&N covers a LOT of range in those categories), make it smaller than the normal engines, say 7KT.
Just make four levels of grav-drive, corresponding to Ion/CT/JP/Quantum. Supply use of 6 (compared to 10,8,6), thrust of 5 (compared to 3,4,5,6).
That gives a speed/KT of 0.72 vs Quantum's 0.6, and you pay a bit more in fuel (since you need more engines)
If you follow the pattern of "1 less thrust than normal tech", the Grav drives beat all except ion engines. However, they do still save on fuel when you're at Ion I's or II's.

Notes:
- Propulsion tech 1, 4, 7, 10 should be required along with the grav tech to get the grav engine. That way, other players can get engine tech when they capture, and research costs are reasonable.
- Don't forget to make Armored Versions of the engine ($5 per hitpoint, 20 additional HP for normal engines)
- There is an unused engine image already in place, are you going to use that?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hey, it's your mod, do whatever you think fits. I was just throwing some ideas out because jimbob mentioned the tech area looked a little sparse. I personally like your ideas about the grav engine. However, I don't think that limiting normal WP tech to base sized vessels. It limits normal SM stategies too much, IMHO. Or was that the point? "you wanna have moving WP techs? Spend racial points on the tech!"

But then, I think a lot of people would take the grav racial just for the WP abilities.... that's not what you want, is it? Personally, I think that a smaller, shorter range WP opener available early in the tech tree would be best. I think that a WP closer shouldn't be available till midgame.

[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I don't, but people claim to, play the not connected game feature. If a warp point opener was available earlier on in the grav tech taht could add some new life to what appears to be a boring mode of play, could also add some excitement eraly on as people closeoff systems and warp others together (open up dead end systems), this soundslike a great idea.

edit: I also thought that it would be cool to be able to create systems (hardcode obviously) but hten people couild actually add systems to the game, the pinnacle of stellar manipulation (might require multiple racial techs (grav, temporal, organic?) would be expensive ot build, might be base only component? would have to have asteroid creation or towing too to put planets in sucha system. (asteroid creation/towing now thats a thought, i know SJ already talked about towing or moving ships and asteroids). MM needs to hardcode the towing ability. could also destabilize a warp point by moving an asteroid through it (towing, not carrying in cargo like you are supposed to do for asteroid movement). that was all random but whatever.

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: Skulky ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I've also thought about how cool it would be to use some kind of towing ability. Also, the ability to hold an enemy vehicle immobile by tractor beam could be really awesome for some strategies... things perhaps for the Grand Future.

S-J,
Looking through the Components.txt file for P&N, I have another couple of questions.
1)You have assigned a 1 point supply cost for your solar sails. Is this just to keep them from giving free movement when out of supplies?
2)Solar Sail I grants 1 Standard Movement, Solar Sail II grants 2 Extra Movement, and Solar Sail III grants 3 Standard Movement. This one still has me baffled.

CombatSquirrel

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>2)Solar Sail I grants 1 Standard Movement, Solar Sail II grants 2 Extra Movement, and Solar Sail III grants 3 Standard Movement. This one still has me baffled.<hr></blockquote>Damn. That's one heck of an exploitable bug. Thanks for pointing it out.

I'll have a fix for you in a sec.
I'm gonna have to update PBW, too...

EDIT: Sig's updated to the new file now.
EDIT2: Unfortunately, the new file upload system dosen't allow for an automatically updated "Latest Version" link, as I've had in the past http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif (this edit is to update the sig)

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Here's another tech idea for you, SJ. At the very top of the missle tree (and maybe dependant on another tech?), place a component that decreases reload rate by 1 for all seekers. (or maybe it would fit better into the Temporal Tech tree?) Would that be possible? I vaguely recall a comp (in the psychic tree?) that INCREASES reload time, could this be given a negative affect to achieve this? It would be cool for us missle loving fools....

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

This thread is the oldest thread I've ever seen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was one of the original posters back in March...wow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I vaguely recall a comp (in the psychic tree?) that INCREASES reload time, could this be given a negative affect to achieve this? It would be cool for us missle loving fools<hr></blockquote>Maybe, but it was a weapon, and you could only fire your reload-decreasing weapon on enemies.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Here's another tech idea for you, SJ. At the very top of the missle tree (and maybe dependant on another tech?), place a component that decreases reload rate by 1 for all seekers. (or maybe it would fit better into the Temporal Tech tree?)<hr></blockquote>Well, I would rather not add to one of the original racial techs and throw the value off. I'd put them into normal tech.

So, what do you guys think about:
- Mini-missiles. Reload 2, slightly less range than CSM, half size, slightly lower power rating. Best for providing cover for fighters, not powerful enough to win ship to ship battles.
- Digger Missiles. Drills into the ship's hull before exploding. Larger size, and slower, but packs an armor-piercing punch. Provide lots of cover from PD for best effect.
- Radiation Bomb. Kills off crew, once shields are down. Lifesupport, Boarding Parties, and Security Forces are all affected. Expanded Automation ships will not be slowed down (EA bridge has an independent lifesupport system)
Living ships can lose any of their organic components, and Organic-tech weapons & armor will be affected. Organic armor may provide protection to the internals, but I'm not sure.
Damage rating will be moderately low (compared to slice&dice weapons, moderate-high for an "only x" weapon), shields will protect a ship, and possibly O.A. will too.
A beam Version should be available, but it will have even lower damage.
- Burrowing Seeker Spores. Organic races get a 2-reload digger missile, to compensate them for the Rad-bomb vulnerability.

A combined attack with mini-missiles, CSM shield-busters, then Diggers or Rads will be very devastating, assuming you can pierce the PD.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Dumbluck,

Thanks for the ideas. The early game, short-range warp points are a good idea. I think I'll put them starbase only to give a sort of "warp gate" feel (and to reduce the power of this early WP technology). Optimally the warp hole would close if the gate was destroyed, but that can't be done in SE IV to my knowledge.

The gravometric drive thing is a good idea. I was trying to get that feel through the inertial dampners though. I figure reducing the gravity/inertial effects would make propulsion easier, but is not a form of propulsion in and of itself (yeah, I know, gravity and inertia are separate phenomenon... I claim poetic license http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

I've also added an 'insta-black hole' component for medium to large mines... just add enemy starships and mix well. They're powerful, but not grotesquely (sp) so.

Quote: "Radiation Bomb. Kills off crew, once shields are down. Lifesupport, Boarding Parties, and Security Forces are all affected. Expanded Automation ships will not be slowed down (EA bridge has an independent lifesupport system)
Living ships can lose any of their organic components, and Organic-tech weapons & armor will be affected."

Wait a second, can you assign multiple types of damage to a single weapon? I was hoping to make a neurotoxin thingy for Biological warfare that would knock out security and boarding parties with one shot. This can be done?!

Edit: do ya think it will be too late for any of this gravity stuff to make the Gold Edition?

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

"I'll put them starbase only to give a sort of "warp gate" feel (and to reduce the power of this early WP technology)."

Er, if you want to make them "early game" putting them on a starbase isn't the way to go, IMO.

9/10 I get WP manipulation waaaaaaaaaaay before I get starbases.

Phoenix-D

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Wait a second, can you assign multiple types of damage to a single weapon? I was hoping to make a neurotoxin thingy for Biological warfare that would knock out security and boarding parties with one shot. This can be done?!<hr></blockquote>There is a "only security stations" damage type. Just use that, and give boarding parties a small ability for boarding defense (thier attack ability already gets added to defense, and you don't want to make them too powerful defending)
That way, once the shields are down, everybody dies from your poison.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Er, if you want to make them "early game" putting them on a starbase isn't the way to go, IMO.<hr></blockquote>How about just making them very massive (500+ KT), and super-expensive (cost to build, or increases maintenance by 10x?)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Edit: do ya think it will be too late for any of this gravity stuff to make the Gold Edition?<hr></blockquote>I'm just hoping my bugfix yesterday will make it, but I'm not expecting it too.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I've also added an 'insta-black hole' component for medium to large mines... just add enemy starships and mix well. They're powerful, but not grotesquely (sp) so.<hr></blockquote>Black holes light enough to avoid being obvious would nessesarily have a very short range. Putting them on mines is a good idea. IMO, almost any singularity projectile should do Quad2Shields & Armor-skipping damage. Since we can't combine the two, I want to go with armor-skipping (for mod balance) (The MSG projectors should be converted for the next Version of P&N)

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hmm.

I wonder if boarding parties will fit on Drones.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Black holes light enough to avoid being obvious would nessesarily have a very short range. Putting them on mines is a good idea. <hr></blockquote>

I thought just the standard 'range 1' for the mines. Would an increase in range have an effect?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> IMO, almost any singularity projectile should do Quad2Shields & Armor-skipping damage. Since we can't combine the two, I want to go with armor-skipping (for mod balance) (The MSG projectors should be converted for the next Version of P&N) <hr></blockquote>

I really wish it were possible to have multiple effects per weapon.. this is one of my biggest hopes for SEV (may God, or Arron, grant us the sequel). Because of this limitation, the planetary black hole projectors do quad damage to the ships, but don't skip armor. I was initially intending the mine generated black holes to just do normal damage. Should the mine generated black holes have an ability that isn't shared by the more powerful planetary generated black holes?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> 9/10 I get WP manipulation waaaaaaaaaaay before I get starbases. <hr></blockquote>

Really? I haven't played multiplayer enough to realize that. I bet you'd kick my butt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
OK, it'll either be an incentive to get starbase, or maybe I'll make the component fit on something smaller than a starbase.


Here's a question. Will the Gravity Manipulation defense components (gravity lens family) stack with the ECM family? How about with the stealth armor family? I assumed that it would, and that bonuses could stack past 100%...

i.e. Gravity Lens X = 30% defense bonus
ECM Y = 60% defense bonus
Stealth Armor Z = 15% defense bonus
Total = 105% defense bonus

vs.

Enemy Sensors N = 60% attack bonus
Enemy experience = 20% attack bonus
Total = 80% attack bonus

105% - 80% = 25% defense bonus

Edit: according to latin pluralization rules, more than one bonus should be boni

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

"Here's a question. Will the Gravity Manipulation defense components (gravity lens family) stack with the ECM family? How about with the stealth armor family?"

Yes. If I remember correctly, it either goes by family or the second ability number defines what stacks and what doesn't.

Phoenix-D

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

All Righty Then...

I've posted this to teh Ultimate thread, but then I had some problems with the Forum, did it go down yesterday?

Regardless, here are the Gravity Racial Techs and Components for P&N and Ultimate "Universes" respectively. Each mini-mod has been slightly tweaked to fit into it's new host Universe, so there are some minor differences.

1007679226.zip
AND
1007679334.zip

Enjoy,
-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Alright. I've got an exam tomorrow, but I'll load 'em up after that.

PS: you can rename your url-tags. Use [ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I noticed that the VehicleSize.txt file for P&N 2.4c has 'Requirement Max Engines' set to 99 instead of the old value of 42. Has the 256 movement point limit been removed?

[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: Torkle ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

No, that's hardcode. You'll get RCE's if you try to add a 43'rd Quantum engine, but you can add up to 84 ion engines without a problem (besides lack of hull space).

Players just have to realize that the RCE means you have too many engines.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Does that affect the AI in any way? I presume not, since they can make ships with two spaceyards, etc..

The engine limit only really functions as an "idiot check" before, then?

Phoenix-D

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Yep. In fact, with a limit of 42 engines you would get the RCE before the "too many engines" warning appeared. It really seemed pointless.

In regards to the AIs, they just try to make about 30% of their hull full of engines, and that works out to 41 engines at most, on a baseship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

JimBob: a few comments on what I've seen:

Images: You altered component image #130, which happens to be the one I use for Plasma Projection Armor. I will be moving this to image # 283, which is free.
All the other images were added to the empty image slots, so they're OK.

"Halo" PD seems quite overpowered, since it has more range than PDLs and more damage than PDCs, all in a 20KT package.
PDCs have 75 @ range 2
PDLs have 40 @ range 8
Do you want to reduce the damage, the range or a bit of both?

The black hole projector has the lowest damage rating in the game (0.16) That will have to be improved. I want to reduce the reload to 5-7 or so, and by the next Version, all black hole weapons will do armor skipping rather than quad2shield.

Inertal dampers will have some funny effects with the QNP in the game... I want to make them part of the ship hull itself, so I can assign a lower EPM rating, rather than a fixed constant speed boost.

Grav lenses look great, though I may have to lower the top end component's effects.

Tractor/Repulsor beams nice. They'll be called "Advanced" rather than "Type B"

And those Warp gates will turn out nicely once I tweak the normal tech manip techs.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Images: You altered component image #130, which happens to be the one I use for Plasma Projection Armor. I will be moving this to image # 283, which is free. <hr></blockquote>

And I thought I'd checked all the free images. That one slipped by somehow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif I hope it won't look to strange to have ships warping through a giant Version of your Plasma Projection Armor. I don't know, maybe no one will mind.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> "Halo" PD seems quite overpowered, since it has more range than PDLs and more damage than PDCs, all in a 20KT package... Do you want to reduce the damage, the range or a bit of both? <hr></blockquote>

How about PDGs (Point Def. Gravity). Yeah, I guess I didn't downsize them enough for the P&N Universe. My vision was of a PD that was powerful, but that had a highly unique Achilles heel - it has a nonfiring zone (it cannot fire at objects immediately next to itself). Once the enemy moves within this range, s/he can pop off as many missiles as they want. The enemy just needs to set their fleet strategy to 'point blank range' and may the fastest ship win (read WPlats and Space Stations lose). Additionally, I think the cost of the device is considerably higher than for PDCs and PDLs. My suggestions would be to keep the long range (and the nonfiring zone) but modify the damage and cost (which is quite high) of the device.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The black hole projector has the lowest damage rating in the game (0.16) That will have to be improved. I want to reduce the reload to 5-7 or so, and by the next Version, all black hole weapons will do armor skipping rather than quad2shield. <hr></blockquote>

Never worked out the ratio... boy, they sure suck!! (and they're expensive too) I strongly agree that their attack value should be increased. I'd suggest increasing the damage level rather than decreasing the reload time. Again, the Achilles heel is the nonfiring zone - once the enemy closes with the planet, a higher reload rate won't matter. Then again, if the Advanced Repulsor beams can push ships back into the firing zone...
(can a weapons platform push a ship? what are the rules on repulsor/tractor beams anyway?)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Inertal dampers will have some funny effects with the QNP in the game... I want to make them part of the ship hull itself, so I can assign a lower EPM rating, rather than a fixed constant speed boost. <hr></blockquote>

Brilliant! I never even considered changing the EPM Ratings.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>(can a weapons platform push a ship? what are the rules on repulsor/tractor beams anyway?)<hr></blockquote>For ship-ship beams, you can only affect equal or smaller sized ships. Since the platform is planet based, it should be able to push anything around (or we would have heard complaints by now).

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Once the enemy moves within this range, s/he can pop off as many missiles as they want.<hr></blockquote>The only problem is that missiles suck at close range combat, compared to beam weapons. And with a fleet, you'd get a lot of overlapping fire, leaving almost no deadzones.
Also, you have the halo doing normal damage; have you though about making it a PD repulsor? If it was a repulsor, firing a missile amidst a fleet of enemy ships would cause them to bounce it around inside, wasting a lot of PDR shots, thus enhancing the central "dead zone" effect even with fleets of ships.
One of the other cool effects of a PDR is that they can reduce the damage from plasma & polaron missiles, even if they can't stop them completely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I never even considered changing the EPM Ratings<hr></blockquote>Ok, so how much should the effect be, % wise? Also, should the effect be rounded down for the smaller ships?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

OK, so they've written the final exam, now I just have to mark it. And you know what that means...
procrastination!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So now that I finally have some spare time,

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>have you though about making it a PD repulsor? If it was a repulsor, firing a missile amidst a fleet of enemy ships would cause them to bounce it around inside, wasting a lot of PDR shots, thus enhancing the central "dead zone" effect even with fleets of ships. <hr></blockquote>

That's a good idea. The player would start opting for the more spaced out formations - finally a reason for them (me, I'm a 'wall' formation kinda guy). I like things that make us play the game differently, so I'm sold!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ok, so how much should the effect be, % wise? Also, should the effect be rounded down for the smaller ships? <hr></blockquote>

My thoughts on this are that the "device" (even if built into the hull) should be able to 'negate' the effects of a finite amount of mass. (someone in another thread wondered how a single 10kt armour could protect a massive battlecruiser as effectively as it does a tiny escort - good pt.) So I think that these devices should actually have a greater mass neutralizing effect on the small ships than on the larger ones.

Your ratio seems to be a linear relationship of one 'movement point' per 50ktons (assuming the engines are the basic ones, no bonus movement).
Unfortunately, at the smaller sizes calculations get messy because fraction numbers are not allowed. So here is my suggestion...

....................Current....# Engines....# Engines
Ship.....Mass...# Engines...with IN 1....with IN 2
Escort....150.......3......2(=33% bonus)...1(66)
Frigate...200.......4.........2(50)........2(50)
Destroyer.300.......6.........4(33)........3(50)
LCruiser..400.......8.........6(25)........4(50)
Cruiser...500......10.........7(30)........6(40)
BCruiser..600......12.........9(25)........8(33)
BShip.....800......16........12(25).......11(31)
DredN....1000......20........16(20).......15(25)
Baseshp..1500......30........25(17).......24(20)

Thus there are diminishing returns as the ship gets bigger. I think this will encourage the player to play some of the smaller ships (Cruisers), which sort of get forgotten by most in the later game anyway. Again, I think that this would add something new to the game, the reuse of the small ship designs in the late game.

I'd also suggest distributing the various bonuses due to manouverability (ie defensive) in a similar manner, that the very small are now hyper manouverable (even if they don't have the high speed) due to their lowered apparent mass, while the larger ships would gain less manouverability, so should have less of a defensive bonus. The negative bonuses should be the same for all ship sizes because it affects the physiology/psychology of the crew.

Hope this is of some help,

[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]</p>

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I've checked, and repulsor beams work on weapon platforms. They are ineffective on sats.

I do have a concern with the Inertial Negator operating on the smallest ships.
There is no way that I can have the ES with 1EPM.
Using quantum engines, you could design a plaguebomber with 60 movement points! That's 30 in combat!

I might have to change the I.N. into a third form, and have it give you an engine that provides +1 thrust (plus a cheaper Version at higher tech). That would make Ion engines be the same as your opponent's CT engines, etc.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I've checked, and repulsor beams work on weapon platforms. <hr></blockquote>

Hey, that's great.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I do have a concern with the Inertial Negator... I can have the ES with 1EPM.
Using quantum engines, you could design a plaguebomber with 60 movement points! <hr></blockquote>

Yup, that's a problem alright. My suggestions might be of some value, so here goes.
1) Maybe reintroduce the maximum # of engines thing for just these special ships. You can work out what you feel is a reasonable # of movement points (remember they can have solar sails) and limit how many engines they can have to acheive this.
2) make it so only Inertial Negators (IN) level 1 reduce the engine/movement ratio, and the higher levels only give the other bonuses (like to-hit values, etc.) on the smaller ship sizes.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I might have to change the I.N. into a third form, and have it give you an engine that provides +1 thrust (plus a cheaper Version at higher tech). That would make Ion engines be the same as your opponent's CT engines, etc <hr></blockquote>

That's good too. Maybe the higher levels would even give +2 thrust? For a fractional advantage the engines could be smaller (like 8ktons instead of 10kt) because then the player could put in just a few more to get just a little more movement.

good luck.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>(remember they can have solar sails) <hr></blockquote>Actually, no. Solar sails count towards your engine limit, and work under the same thrust/mass system as normal engines.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>For a fractional advantage the engines could be smaller (like 8ktons instead of 10kt)<hr></blockquote>Good call. I can do both.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

SJ - I just sent you a private mail re: two issues on the Gold Version.

Thanks
-TG

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I've PM'ed you back, with a link to a new P&N file, with the changes included.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Ok, this thread is a tad bit long. Hard to find anything specific in it, no? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Here's an archive text file of everything in the thread up to this point. It won't be pretty, but you can search for specific terms or whatnot.Pirate's Thread Text Archive.

Geoschmo

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Woo! A brand new superfeature!

In-game construction of Multi-Spaceyard Colonies!

Yes! You too can be the proud owner of a do-it-yourself 5-Yard world, building Baseships in a month, or two battlemoons per year!

Your multi-yard colony must invest $40,000 into a spaceyard expansion project, after which you are only one turn away from having an extra spaceyard.

Note: This feature will apply to both Standard and Gold, and will be a part of the next Version of P&N (which will include the Gravtechs)
Release will be as soon as I get the gravtechs merged and tested.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

How did you get your hands on a copy of the demo, or did someone just tell you these things? I really want the demo, badly bad kinda bad. this is such a great game i would take the demo in any form.

btw, long live Shrapnel, MM, PBW and this board.

--David

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Woo! A brand new superfeature! <hr></blockquote>

You mean you removed the one per planet limitation, or is there more to it?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How did you get your hands on a copy of the demo, or did someone just tell you these things? I really want the demo, badly bad kinda bad. this is such a great game i would take the demo in any form.<hr></blockquote>SE4 Demo
Also, if you visit my homepage (such as it is) and scroll down to Feb '01 or so, you should find my "Demo Ablative Armor" mod which is one of the very few (possibly only) mods for the SE4 demo.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You mean you removed the one per planet limitation, or is there more to it?<hr></blockquote>Theres more to it, but mostly work for the user.
The user has to build a "SpaceYard Expansion Project", which turns into a second (or third or twenty-fifth) SpaceYard.
One quirk of the process is that it is way easier to build the Last spaceyard expansion than the first.
The first expansion takes about two years. The second takes 1 year. The third takes 7 turns. Fourth takes 5 turns. Fifth takes 4 turns. And so on. The twentieth to thirtieth (for those advanced storage technique races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) take one turn.
With 30 Spaceyard III's, you get 90,000 production. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
Probably a little wasted on building ships (you could finish complete battlemoons in a turn or two). Building units would rock though. You might have to dump ten cargo starbases in orbit to hold all that excess.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Sorry, i actually own teh full game, SE4 that is. I was looking for hte Gold demo, iguess they haven't released it yet.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

what would happen if you had say, a ringworld filled with the construction thingies, woudl the production still be charged to your account even if it wasn't fully used in producing a ship? or is it just potential?