Re: Turn 12
 

On the subject of hosting:

I did not host last night because I was still missing a turn file. Recall that I had delayed hosting last turn by 12 hours, so I decided to delay this time too. I will host today (probably at lunch time) whether I receive the Jontun turn or not.

Also, I will be leaving tomorrow to go on a camping trip to Arizona. I will return sometime over the weekend. There were several people in the game who are also going to be gone over the upcoming holidays. Thus, after I host today, the subsequent turn will host Sunday at 8 PM MST.

Re: Turn 12
 

Scorpions, tarantulas, and rattlers...oh my!
Scorpions, tarantulas, and rattlers...oh my!
Scorpions, tarantulas, and rattlers...oh my!
SCORPIONS, TARANTULAS, and RATTLERS...OH MY!

Don't forget the bug spray. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Re: Turn 12
 

Interesting that you mention this item. I have a humorous story on the subject.

About 10 years ago, I was playing golf on Prince Edward Island, Canada, in the middle of the summer. Those little biting flies were swarming all over the course. It was really tough to putt when your head and back were covered in bugs. I was complaining about it to my two playing partners, both of whom were locals.

The resulting conversation with one of the guys is something I will never forget. It went something like this:

"You said you were from New Mexico, right?"
"Yes."
"Don't you have scorpions and rattlesnakes?"
"Well, yes we do. I have seen a rattler on the course back home and many a scorpion in my back yard when I first moved into my house."
"And tarantulas too?"
"Oh yes, all the time! They like to cross the fairway near the lake on hole number 11 on the base course back home."
"Well, you can keep all those nasty things. I am perfectly content with my own insects here."
And as I slapped at yet another annoying fly, I replied, "OK, sounds good! You stay here with these flies and mosquitos and I will go back home to my snakes and scorpions and big spiders!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I always live in fear that the many people living in the eastern US will discover New Mexico and eventually innudate us with tons of people. We already have enough Californians moving in anyways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: Turn 12
 

Although my wyrm abstained on prop 11, I would have no problem with changing the wiki to require loggin in.

Re: Turn 12
 

sorry about the late 2h.

its funny you worry about californians. us californians are always complaining that all the freaks and weirdos from other states are inundating us...

you'll find native californians much less... stereotypical... than the "californians" that are actually originally from somewhere else.

Re: Turn 12
 

OK, I did receive the Jontun turn file, but I have since discovered that the Atlantis turn file is not working properly. I have sent an email requesting a replayed turn from Atlantis.

Look for the new turn within the next 8 hours or so after this gets resolved.

Re: Turn 12
 

And people think hosted games are so much worse than PBEM - at least with a hosted game, you pretty much know you have valid turn files, and if QH is off, it really has no disadvantages compared to pbem.

Re: Turn 12
 

Since we both do love a good argument (I guess it is all that New Mexico sunshine on our heads), I have to disagree:
1. QH off means that the owner of the server has to keep on top of things to force host if someone goes AWOL, or have a fixed hosting schedule.
2. I have seen no less than 3 MP games on a server (2 with me and 1 that my son was in) go crazy such that the game ends. With PBEM, you can always go back to previous fatherland files and attempt to re-start at a point before the game goes Nagot. We did this with the Yarnspinners and managed to recover the game by replaying Turn 29 a couple of times until it got past the game errors.
3. People with servers rarely do the non-QH option, although I did manage to convince the hosts for my last 2 server games to go to a fixed schedule (which, as you know, solves a lot of the problems with QH).
4. Many people forget to do their server turns if not reminded in an email. I know I do. The frequency of stales on a server is probably 5-10 times that of a PBEM.

But ah, the advantages of a server:
1. People uploading the turns KNOW that their 2h file is good, which is certainly not true for PBEM. But a good PBEM host should know also if he takes the time to check throughly.
2. The server game tends to move a LOT faster, especially for the early moves.

Interesting enough, I did check the input files yesterday and somehow overlooked the fact that the little dash next to Atlantis was missing. There ought to be a better way than that tiny little dash thingy to show the host that a turn file is missing.

This delay is not a big deal since the next turn won't be due until next Sunday anyway. Had this been a normal week, I would have probably forced some stales or emailed the missing folks sooner.

Next Sunday, we will get back to our normal schedule. This hopefully will last until the Christmas holidays. By then, most of the indies should be gone and the game will get very interesting.

Re: Turn 12
 

'4. Many people forget to do their server turns if not reminded in an email. I know I do. The frequency of stales on a server is probably 5-10 times that of a PBEM.'
how does playing pbem make you remember to do it more? i mean surely its just as easy to rememmber to go onto the server as it is to send your turn file?

Re: Turn 12
 

It is because you get an email when a new turn is out on PBEM but you don't on a server game. In fact, I keep the turn email sitting in my inbox until I send in my 2h file as a constant reminder that it is due.

Of course, I check my email maybe 10 times a day. I am guessing that not all people do this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Zooko and some others started a thing where the server automatically sends out an email when a new turn is up. This helps greatly when it works. I did get a stale once because the notification thing failed and the turn hosted without me remebering that a turn was due around that time. That can't happen with PBEM unless your email server messes up (which has been know to happen). This is why I post on this forum about specific turn files due so people have two independant ways to check that their turns are needed.

Turn 13
 

Turn 13 is out and no one staled! The next turn is due next Sunday at 8 PM MST unless ALL the following things happen:
1. I somehow find my lost Dominions CD before tomorrow morning and install the game on my laptop.
2. I receive all 16 of the 2h files in a timely fashion and they all work.
3. I find an internet connection in Arizona and manage to host a new turn.

I would be willing to bet that it is unlikely to have all three items above happen in the next few days!

Re: Turn 12
 

Ah, and the host doesn't have to keep on top of things with pbem? I didn't realize all the status emails, reminders, running the turns and mailing them out were automatic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Seriously - right now, you go to run the turn and realize you don't have a valid turn file for someone, meaning you have to contact them and ask for another. Not to mention checking to see if you have all the turns, nag people who are going to stale, etc.

Set up the server to run a script / batch file before each turn runs and you can have it copy the fatherland and other files. Just as easy to recover from an error then. Oh, and even with PBEM, don't you have to do something to save off the fatherland file each turn, lest it go corrupt? I mean - way back when, I recall having to give up SP games because the fatherland went bad.


Back when mosehansen was a viable server, I often made games I owned fixed schedule once the early game rush was over.This one's just a matter of what the host is willing to do; if I should get a low-power machine I'm willing to leave up full time, I'd certainly be hosting some games that went fixed schedule no later than turn 20 or so.

Heh. I expect the rate of stales on a PBEM would be about as high for a PBEM, if the host didn't send out reminders to people. And, of course, nothing keeps the host of a server based game from sending out emails, if they just get the email address for all the players. (Could even be done automatically via cron jobs on a linux box, possibly Windoze too.)

But admittedly, most people running server games don't go to the effort to setup anything fancy with backing up key files, notifying players, etc. IIRC, Esben did for mosehansen though, with a variety of options for being notified when a turn had run.

Wiki no longer anonymous
 

As per order of the council, all posters to the wiki who do not identify themselves (or at least obtain a marginally clever pseudonym) will be summarily eaten.

- Apep, who longs for some good red meat

(Translation: you have to log in to the wiki to post now. It's fast, it's easy, it's fun...)

Re: Wiki no longer anonymous
 

I'm currently in my first two PBEM games and they seem like a lot more hassle/work/chaos than the server games I've been in. But maybe it's just because the server ops were better than average. All I know is I got an email telling me when the turn was ready, I'd login and take my turn, logoff and wait for the next 48-hour notification--just like clockwork. The only problem I had was every once in a blue moon the first connection attempt didn't work but the 2nd always did.

The one thing I think where PBEM has an advantage is in being more forgiving for stales since the host usually delays the game until said staler decides to send his/her turn. Of course, this is only beneficial if nobody minds the delays... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

COW 14
 

I know it has been almost a week since our last turn, but I am delaying hosting turn 14 until tomorrow for the following reasons:
1. QM did not get his Ermor turn in.
2. Tauren did not get his TC turn in because of the holidays last week meant he had no internet access.
3. I will have to go on a business trip to Washington, DC on Thursday morning, returning Sunday around noon. Thus, I cannot host Thursday anyway.

So, the turn schedule for the next week will be Monday, Wednesday, and Sunday at 8 PM MST (-7 GMT). I will be hosting on those three days whether or not I get all the turns sent in, for this game does need to start moving faster. No more Mr. Nice Guy with respect to the stales!

The Panther

Re: COW 14
 

Turn 15 has been sent. The next deadline is Wednesday at 8 PM MST. This time, there will be no tolerance for late turn files and the game will host on schedule.

I received 31 gold and 1 gem from one nation for revealing capitols and will be emailing location information to the smart pretender in charge of that nation!

Zooko
 

My email to Zooko bounced back to me. Do you have another email address that I can use?

Re: Zooko
 

zooko@zooko.com is the only one I use. Why did it bounce??

Re: Zooko
 

Here is the message:

The following addresses had delivery problems:

<zooko@zooko.com>
Permanent Failure: Bad destination system address
Delivery last attempted at Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:17:21 -0000


I sent it again to see if it would work.

Re: Zooko
 

I also have yet to receive the turn file... Never had any problems in the past, but it's been 3.5 hours since your post, and I'm starting to get worried/impatient/greedy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Good chance it's just bogged down somewhere between New Mexico, Iceland, and Rhode Island, but if you end up needing to send Zooko's turn again and wouldn't mind re-sending me the Ms, it would be great.
And as always, thanks for being an awesome host.

Re: Zooko
 

Mine got through, possibly going New Mexico -> Korea -> New Mexico. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif If you had an A-Ermor, I could try sending you your turn, but you don't.

Re: Zooko
 

Never fear, Apep is always willing to help out in a pinch. Providing my minions didn't bungle everything up again, you should have the M's shortly...

Re: Zooko
 

To the rescue!
Thanks for the help. And Cainehill, thanks for the implicit offer of trading nations for a turn.
Now let's see what damage those lances have wrought...

Re: Zooko
 

With a little over 24 hours until hosting, I am missing the following 5 turn files:
Arco
Caelum
Ermor
Man
Marignon

Ygrol - Did you ever receive the turn file from me? I received no message that it bounced back.

Re: Zooko
 

Panther, I got it the next day. I was definitely glad to get the forward from puffyn, as it's taking a long time to bend quantum_mechani to my will.

Edit - it looks like it actually might be a couple more turns before he's my mindless lackey. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Cow 16
 

Turn 16 has been sent out. The deadline is Sunday at 8 PM MST. I will be away from my computer from Thursday morning until Sunday afternoon.

Unfortunately, the two hotmail accounts came back as undeliverable. This is Jontunheim and Atlantis. It must be a hotmail problem since no others bounced and nobody else has a hotmail account.

I will attach the two turn files to this forum for those two nations since I don't have time to wait for a fix. Let us hope that hotmail starts working again or you will need new email accounts by Sunday.

Re: Cow 16 Jontun
 

Jontun file attached

Re: Cow 16 Jontun
 

weird about the hotmail thing.

VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION 12
 

Re: VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION 12
 

All turns are in but Atlantis. Hosting is in anout 2-3 hours.

Re: VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION 13
 

There is also a new Proposition, the Fateful Proposition 13.

Re: VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION 12
 

Might a humble human make a suggestion to the august Council of Wyrms regarding Proposition 12? If only the winning Wyrm gains from the event then only the Wyrms in the most powerful position (in terms of humans eaten) will have any motivation to pass this resolution. My guess is that this would only be a handful? Which means that it is unlikely to pass.

My suggestion is to change it to a betting pool so that all of Wyrmdom can participate. Allow Wyrms to declare themselves contenders and allow all others to place bets on said contenders based on some set of odds you all can work out on your own. Then the give the winning Wyrm some % of the betting pool and pay out all the winning bets from the sums given in all the bets which were placed on losing contenders.

Turn 17
 

Turn 17 has been sent out. Next deadline is Tuesday at 8 PM MST. News:

1. Atlantis staled. I am sorry about that, for I know hotmail was down when the last turn was mailed. I did post the turn file on the forum, but I guess Atlantis does not read the forum or he is out. There has been plenty of time for Atlantis to have taken sufficient action to avoid the stale.
2. Zona Nyl has died for the second time. I suppose that means he now joins the ranks of magic-less wyrms.
3. A Death Match has been scheduled for the very bravest of the wyrms.

Re: Turn 17
 

Any Wyrms want to bet on who will win the Deathmatch?

Re: Turn 17
 

I bet it is the dragon, or his people. (bet: 1 gem)

Re: Turn 17
 

Aren't deathmatches... dangerous? I doubt there will be ANY pretenders participating, especially since it kills your voting status (not that we've been voting on much). Well, I'm about to come up with a doozy of a proposal that may get some debate.

Re: Turn 17
 

I was updating the web page, which included noting that propositions 12 and 13 had been defeated. However, it appears that two dead wyrms (Grundle and B'hemet) voted on proposition 12; without those two votes, the proposition would have passed. Unless I hear that those wyrms have rejoined us, I will change prop. 12 to indicate its passage, and the human-eating contest will commence! Given that Grundle acknowledges his unfortunate state in a comment, it seems like this will be the case.
Cheers!

Re: Turn 17
 

Um - were they dead the whole time the voting was open? Remember, due to voting rules (24 hour votes), a Wyrm might be both dead and alive during that voting time frame.

Were any other Wyrms a little bit dead during the voting, who voted yes?

Not that it matters - Vyrmin can out eat any of y'all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Turn 17
 

Actually, the voting period is not yet over. Recall that the rules specifically state that wryms have 48 hours to vote on weekends.

Re: Turn 17
 

I guess B'ang!Pat'h will have to weigh in on prop 12. Don't think I have enough free time to come up with a suitably bombastic tirade, though, so he may have to vote in silence for a change.

Re: Turn 17
 

Making it 7 nays (5 living) to 5 yeses, meaning 12 is still defeated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Turn 17
 

If it's 5 to 5, the proposition passes. Assuming that Grundle and B'hemet are in fact deceased (and have been throughout the voting period) we've still got a contest. Otherwise, we'll all just continue munching mortals in private. Kir'Doq of T'ien Ch'i could still kill it with a nay vote, though.

Everyone (including Ironhawk) should bear in mind that it is not a competition of who has eaten the most in history, it is only a contest of who can eat the most during one particular month. As such, everyone can compete on equal grounds.

Re: Turn 17
 

B'hemet was alive! Back from the dead for a turn or two now...

Re: Turn 17
 

My bad. I thought Prop 10 allowed the representative of a dead wyrm to vote but, in fact, it does not.

Murmur of C'tis

Re: Turn 17
 

5 to 5 shouldn't pass - it doesn't have the slightest illusion of a majority. Imagine you and I are playing a game of chess, and I say, "Hey! I propose that knights should be able to move like rooks!"

You say "Hell no!", I say, "Yes!" - same proportion of voting as 5 to 5.

That's why most representative democracies have someone who can break a tie, voting only in the case of a tie, because otherwise, a tie would, and should, fail.

Re: Turn 17
 

The current charter dictates that a tie vote passes. The intention was to allow controversial proposals to pass, so that more things happen. Given that virtually none of the proposals have passed so far, this seems like a reasonable bit of foresight on the part of the constitutional committee. The example you gave only applies, I think, when the voters are divided into two opposing camps - in that case, you're guaranteed to have anarchy. In our case, however, it's every wyrm for himself, and it seems to me there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe my intuition is wrong though...

...and you could always propose an amendment to change things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Turn 17
 

Seems to call for some sort of quorum requirement.

Prop 13
 

QUORUM REQUIREMENT? What do you think Proposition 13 was about? BWARGH!
--Sak

Re: Prop 13
 

Mistakes were made, and I would like to apologize to all my fellow wyrms for not noticing before now that it was impossible to upload images to the wiki. That was never my intent, and I have now fixed it. Apep has assured me that those responsible were summarily eaten (but very wyrmanely), and that it won't happen again, but if it does, he'll eat them, too.

-puffyn

Turn 18
 

Turn 18 has been sent. Next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST. News:
1. Ermor has staled.
2. Tvitno, the Caelum Death Elder, has won the Death Match.
3. No wyrms in the HOF died.