Re: Balance Mod
 

So it turns out the AI was adding any starting techs for the last few versions! Anyhow it's been fixed and is working properly. It should certainly help with the research stuff!

Re: Balance Mod
 

Mod's coming along nicely, CK! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Quick question, you added the Override_InvConfiguration_Slots.txt file, did you intend to use it?

Re: Balance Mod
 

Not at this time, but it was suggested that I at least include one with the mod (it's just the default one now, but that will probably change) package if someone wanted to use it.

Re: Balance Mod
 

Any update on when the latest update might be coming out?

Thanks,

Javaslinger

Re: Balance Mod
 

I was aiming for tonight, but I haven't finished the update yet and I wanted to test the mod out for a bit first. So 50-50 for tonight... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod
 

I'm was away for the last few days, sorry just getting to this. To start, I could not get a couple of the ministers to work at all:
Ships - Minelayers
Ships - Population Transports

It could be something I'm doing incorrectly, but I'm not sure what it could be.

Also, some questions/suggestions for the Planetary Construction minister:
- Will it build Atmosphere Modification Plants? I think it's worth the investment on Large/Huge worlds, maybe even medium. Should recycle it after the atmosphere is converted, but I'm not sure if that level of control is possible.

- Will it build Value Improvement Plants? Worth it on all the resource type colonies of Large+, maybe even medium, haven't looked at the numbers in detail.

- Will it build Climate Improvement Plants? Worth it on all medium+ sized worlds.

- I tend to take the Temporal Tech branch when I play and noticed it was not building the Temporal Shipyards in place of normal shipyards. Again not sure if this level of decision making is practical or allowed given the api.

- There is a new colony type in your Mod (Resource Colonies?) that will build facilities for all three types of resources. If available it would be nice if Monolith facilities were built there.

- If the AI can detect which system wide facilities are constructed or being constructed it would be nice to have those handled by this minister as well (Medical Centers, Temporal Vacation Centers, Space Ports, etc.).

- Will the AI build Robo Factories? Would be nice on resrouce worlds.


Also, I noticed ships retrofitting without the minister be active for that ship, but I think that's more an SEV bug than anything to do with you. It also might be me not understanding how it's supposed to work!

Thanks, and your mod rocks btw!

Re: Balance Mod
 

It was reported that at some time the Ship Design minister had to be active for some of the ministers to work. I'm not sure if this is still the case despite a fix aimed at this area in v1.17...

Are there mines available for the mine layer?

The AI planetary minister is not that advanced yet. Some of the items you describe are long term AI goals I would like to work on.

The build lists do call for some of the resource enhancing abilities, but there are unlikely to be seen unless they happen to have the right colony type on a large enough planet. Not to say there can't be further optimization in this area... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod
 

I was thinking, it would probably be alot better for the AI if, for instance, all planets' facility slots were doubled, while all relevant facilities( i.e. research, intelligence, mining, etc.) had their production points and costs cut in half. It would definitely improve AIs 'mixed' colonies alot.

On another note, I'm thinking that maybe there should be a huge decrease in supplies/ordnance usage, or a big increase in the standard supply/ordnance storage( like 2x the current level ) and another increase in the amount of supplies distributed by resupply facilities. The goal would be to have the AI fly around more, both with fleets and single ships, further away from his colony systems, etc.

I'm speculating that the current short time before running out of supplies might be keeping the AI from venturing out from his colonies and rarely attacking the player. I'm guessing that supply is a big factor when the AI decides to send out an attacking fleet, so if there's one or two empty system between the AI and his target, he might not attack at all because he decides his ships doesn't have enough supplies to last through it all.

The above also brings me to another speculative, but highly likely, point: How *can* the AI attack the player( unless he's got a planet in the same sector or some such )?

I mean, with fog of war enabled, the AI will *never* know of any of the player's colonies if the player just terminates any scouts sent. In other words, the AI will never have a target, a colony, to attack or to send his fleet to. And, presumably, the AI wont send out his fleet unless he's got a clear target, this then explaining the lack of aggresion from the AI.

In short, the one and only 'fair' way of playing against the AI in SE V seems to be if one uses the 'See all sectors' option to help him, because the AI is definitely not designed to handle fog of war issues. Perhaps the easiest and best solution for Aaron would be to just make the AI 'cheat' and see everything.

Re: Balance Mod
 

Mine layers have the mines available to them.

Hmm, needing the ship design minister on for some functions? Argh. That's the only one I refuse to use lol. Not that I hate its designs but I have a ship naming convention so I know what my oddly named ships are called.

Generally I use US Navy Hull/Type convention with a dash and then a name. So:
CA - Cruiser, Heavy
CV - Cruiser, Aviation
CL - Cruiser, Light
AR - Auxiliary, Repair
AP - Auxiliary, Troop Transport

Having the AI use the ship type prefix would be actually a really nice thing for the game btw. Seeing a "FeeFiFoFum IV" tells me nothing, but seeing "BB - FeeFiFoFum IV" tells me a battleship sized attack ship was involved.

Re: Balance Mod
 

I'll have to respond to some of the items posted here later, but I wanted to point those who are interested to a new thread in the Balance Mod forums at SE.net:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2115.html

It's a proposal for a change to the Engine system. There's not much change to the actual mechanics really, but I think it restores some strategy back to engine usage that was sort of lost with the current Balance Mod engine system.

Re: Balance Mod
 

The AI is not too bad at refueling ships and does make decent usage of frontier Resupply Depots when it builds them. Anyhow the revised engine system will improve the ranges for most ships.

To some degree, Raapys is right about the AI and its attack locations. It generates it's attack location list each turn and I would think that if an area of enemy strength is not visible on its sensors, it won't be considered. Although I have seen times when a large fleet is nearby and will attack the next turn, but it depends on a myriad of factors. Overall from looking through the scripts, the AI is generally designed to attack enemies in shared systems first rather than launching longer "preemptive" strikes.

The AI is also told not to start hostilities if there is still open space to explore - I'll likely change this to reflect the nature of the AI - that is, whether it is peaceful, neutral, or aggressive.

I think it might be good if the AI always saw the contents of the system as well.

Re: Balance Mod
 

Just in case you couldn't guess, the next version of the mod probably won't be good to go until Wednesday as I need to implement the new propulsion scheme and make a few script adjustments.

Re: Balance Mod
 

The only downside there would be the need to calculate manually how many hexes a ship design could move (and presumably fractional values would be lost rather than carried over to the next turn). Also could other components (e.g. Solar Sails) still provide an element of extra movement?

I would certainly agree with removing the "hard" limitations on engine usage but adding other incentives for developing older engine types, e.g. lower cost, features like a stealth bonus (due to reduced emissions) or a combat maneuverability bonus (improved control systems) could add extra depth to the game.

Re: Balance Mod
 

You already do this now, except now you don't even know your ships EPM (engines per move) value. At least now it would tell you and it'd be a relatively round number. The mechanics are the same as currently, but the movement bonuses have been dropped in favour of a gradual increase in engine movement points.

All in all, 94.5% of people just add to max engines anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Interesting note, the ship stats summary will actually round your ships movement up if its appropriate to do so, but your real movement for your constructed ship is the truncated value. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod
 

That sounds more like a bug to me.

Re: Balance Mod
 

Greetings!

Well another change (and delay) for the next version involving ship level progression. Not too much change at the bottom end, but the larger ships now have more levels - which was a big request/wish for many players.

Relevant thread:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2121.html

Long story short: It doesn't change the min or max size for a ship type, but does give finer graduations of size for the big ships.

Re: Balance Mod
 

There is enough to research already without these balance killing multiple ship sizes.Bad move for game and A.I.

Re: Balance Mod
 

It's purely a cosmetic change. No real effect on the AI or changing balance.

The research costs have been adjusted so that the total tech area costs the same as before. So it's really just opening up 50kT increments per level for the big ships rather than the 100kT increments that were in place.

Overall, each ship type still retains the same proportions of space they did for engines, weapons, etc.

Re: Balance Mod
 

Licking my fingers in anticipation of the next Balance mod....

Javaslinger

Re: Balance Mod
 

Working on it as I post. Lots of data entry with this update! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Any observations on the AI and their treaty behavior from v0.99? I'll be working on the script updates and haven't seen much about it since the last version was posted.

Re: Balance Mod
 

Lets see... ABout 60% of the AI's agreed to a treaty of some sort with me. I attmepted a treaty with each one I encountered. It was a reasonable mix with one sneaking in a tech trade 1 to 1. From that I found out that he had reasearched an inordinate amount of social improvements like civics, etc... and light carriers... seemed like his research was a bit wasted for early game....

I found one AI to be particulary agressive.. they were on my initial border and shared the same planet type for colonization. no fleets, but small groupings of 4-6 ships...

All AI's were very heavy on units.. couldn't tell you what the units were for most.

Ship designs featured multiple armors with usually one single weapon.. almost exclusively.. is this by design? I won in every match I wasn't outnumbered with a gun heavy/limited armor ship design.

Oh, they also began to go crazy with the fighters and that really screwed me as I was very lax with the PD....

really didn't get too far, maybe 100 turns before I had to drop the game for exam prep...

I played the game with max AI's, no neutrals, difficult setting, and max bonuses.

I was first place scoring wise pretty rapidyly by rapidly expanding and grabbing every planet I could nearby. By the time I'd expanded as full as possible without any combat, I was nearly double or triple the AI in systems and planets. However, they had nearly double or triple my ships and units. My research points and resources were far ahead of the 2nd place race....

However, the AI that did the tech trade with me took over 1st once it received the crapload of military techs from me....

Hope this helps.. version 0.99 by the way...

Javaslinger

Re: Balance Mod
 

What about the treaties they offered you? Were they decent for the type of treaty they were suppose to be?

Re: Balance Mod
 

In our test PBW game, I'm up against the Sithrak and the Sergetti. Neither has used anything bigger than a frigate yet, and they haven't seriously attacked me.

The Sergetti are currently blockading one of my side systems, though. They've got a FG sitting on each warp point.

Re: Balance Mod
 

In my current and preceding games the treaties have been fair. I can often get a non agression pact of some kind. Even if the aliens dont want a treaty they seem to leave me alone. They only get nasty if I block warp points they want to travel thru and we currently have no treaty.

The aliens dont seem very expansionistic after the early game. I have by about mid-game three times more planets and am producing about ten times more research points than my nearest competitor.

Dodd

Re: Balance Mod
 

Ok, Capn.. here's what I got for ya....

14 AI empires of which I have contacted all of them. I have attempted a treaty with all of them or accepted the one they offered me. Presently I have 9 treaties.. and am at war with 1.. the others have all refused...

As far as the treaties go.... and I couldnt' tell you which I suggested and which them did....

7 of 9 contain trade treaties ranging from 10-20%

Oh, I take that back, 3 were suggested by them, and 6 by me... the three that they suggested include a non-agression treaty, a cooperation agreement, and a trade treaty...

Wait there was one other treaty the damn Phong's suckered me into.. it included a tech swap 1 to 1....

Most treaties they offered were the non-agression sort with some sort of trade agreement... they at times try to sneak in a tech swap but usually it's the 4 levels old variety and I don't accept them. Also, most of their treaties include sharing resupply... one included colonizing in each others territory...

IN general I haven't seen anything bizzare out of their treaty offers.. and they're reasonable about what they accpet. I haven't been able to 'sucker' anyone yet into a bad treaty...

Hope that is helpful...Oh, by the way, it's year 2403.5.. so it's relatively early...

Javaslinger

Re: Balance Mod
 

Thanks for the report. The treaties the AI will offer depend on a few factors which include the race's mood (anger) toward you and their classification (peaceful, aggressive, etc). Most of the neutral/aggressive AIs might start out with non-aggression treaties, but if things go well they'll move up to trade or trade and research type treaties. A good relationship with a peaceful AI might get you a partnership treaty or military alliance if their at war.

Re: Balance Mod
 

ETA?

Re: Balance Mod
 

The update should be good to go tomorrow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Balance Mod
 

Could activating the See Ship/Unit From Memory features help the AI along? I'm not sure exactly how these works, haven't had the time to test it yet, but they sound like something that might be just what the game needs to greatly improve the AI. Too bad the See Planet feature, which is activated by default, doesn't also store the last known owner of the planet.

Re: Balance Mod
 

See Ship/Unit is odd. It lets you see them after you move out of sensor range. That's good. It lets you seem them no matter where they are. That's bad.

It makes sensors almost pointless, actually..

Re: Balance Mod
 

Bah, hoped it would just leave a 'mark' or something about where the fleet was and how big it was. Aaron definitely needs to look into that.

Balance Mod Update
 

Greetings!

I've posted v1.00 of the Balance Mod for download at my site:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Note that this version is not compatible with any v0.9X games - so you'll need to start a new game.

Some big changes in this version included extensions to the ship and engine tech tree, along with a change in the propulsion system. Essentially each engine now provides a varying amount of movement points instead of a standard amount with movement bonuses for higher tech engines.

On the AI front there was a big fix with starting techs (the AI hasn't been picking their starting techs for some time now - maybe since v95!?) so that should certainly help AI performance.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
1. Fixed - AI players were not selecting starting technology
2. Added - Small Crystalline Armor
3. Added - Small Organic Armor
4. Fixed - Error in tech requirement for Environmental Studies cultural achievement
5. Fixed - Error in tech requirement for Temporal Space Yard
6. Changed - Plague Bombs are now only a single entry
7. Fixed - Range was incorrect for Plague Bomb
8. Fixed - The Massive Base Mount had an incorrect amount for its accuracy bonus
9. Changed - Tweaked hull costs for some vehicle types
10. Changed - Increased damage amount for Alloy Burner Missile
11. Changed - Quantum Reactors now provide more supplies per level and their cost reduced slightly
12. Changed - Revised entire engine system
13. Changed - Increased number of tech levels for larger ships (Cruiser &gt; Baseship)
14. Changed - Reduced the regeneration rate for Organic Armor
15. Changed - Increased Ripper Beam to 11 levels
16. Changed - Increased Plasma Missile to 11 levels
17. Changed - Slightly increased seeker speeds
18. Added - Defense Modifiers to seeker weapons descriptions
19. Fixed - Error in Boarding Combat defense modifier
20. Changed - Reduced the maximum time it takes for Atmospheric Modification Plant to change the atmosphere
21. Changed - Increased amount of damage required to kill 1M population
22. Changed - Increased values for starting tech points
23. Fixed - AI wasn't adding Basic Sensors to their satellites
24. Changed - Racial trait sensors (Temporal, Psychic) reduced in cost
25. Fixed - A number of typos
26. Updated - Updated AI research pathing
27. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Starting new game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Mr Kwok , tried to install v1.00 , got message " bad CRCbd99ac16 { should be db90a6bcb } " odviously did not take , what should I do ?

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

That sounds yucky. You can try to re-download since it might have been corrupted... and also check to make sure you installed it in the right directory etc.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Captain Kwok , tried downloading again same message came up - with further digging - problem came up between , eee-main-script-csf and eee-setup-script-cfs , also a warning message " size of extracted file { 776572} does not match the uncompressed size { 776556 } recorded in the zip. file " maybe this helps finding the cause ?

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

thats an AI file...
if it lets you unzip it compleatly without those files then you should be ok, I'll download it later and see if I get the same problem.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Working fine here.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

It installed fine for me, but I no longer have the reduced flag size.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

There's a few Alliance Flags that haven't been changed in size. Did you happen to choose one of those?

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

I'm using the one that's listed as Race 13, the red flag with the samon colored tri disign.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Captain,

There is another post talking about the AI's and giving them Ancient Race traits. They claim the computer play better with it. Can you edit that into your stock empires or are you (or the program) already giving the AI's that edge? (see everything)

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Romulus68 - If you start a new game with the option "Players can see all sectors of the solar system regardless of system" it should do the same thing, you just have to not "Cheat" and look around.
I played 1 game like this and had massive fleets attacking multiple targets each turn - This was a stock game too.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Players can see all sectors work even better, since it removes fog of war, which is what's really crippling the AI. Ancient Race will really just improve AI performance the first few turns, as it doesn't have to explore and such.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Some of the AIs will add the ancient racial trait when they have 3000 or 5000 points to spend.

Using the players can see all objects in a system setting (SE:IV style) will certainly kick up the AIs performance.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

With all the shipsets,races going to be made I think BM should keep the stock flags.Release the smaller flag mod as an optional download.

Good work BTW.

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

I read that Version 1.00 is certainly not compatible with earlier games but I was still hoping I could keep my empire file.
Starting a game being able to build Baseships on turn 1 is pretty good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Ive never modded... hi, but i want to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
ill look around the mod programs i saw links too around the
forum. lates

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Some feedback for you Kwok about version 1.0:

- The AI expansion seems much better with rapid colonization of other systems.
- Treaties proposed of the AI make much more sense.
- In my game all AI empires are extremely eager to make a treaty. The next turn after I meet them they usually propose a first treaty. While this is good for some races, I would suggest you have some variety with races that will make treaties only rarely.

Very good work! Thank you very much for this mod.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

In verizion 1.00 I actually had the AI lay a minefield!

I tend to agree that the AI's are a little too quick to offer a treaty. In a small map you get overwhelmed with treaty offers from every race you are in contact with.

So far, I like V1.00 and hope the AI's will be more agressive.