Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As always, you fell a bit short. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif j/k

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

King Match Update
Report from the front:

Two attacking forces dispatched.
One decent-sized fleet worn to dust on a minefield. The second brutalized coming through a warp point. Wshew.

Momentum takes a temporary swing in Stoney's favor. News at 11. Back to you, Dick. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only if I am really really really lucky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

I opened the file in OpenOffice and copied it to the html editor of OpenOffice. After that I only changed the font and added borders. Here is what I got http://koti.mbnet.fi/lehtkl/kothstandings.html.

[ March 07, 2003, 13:37: Message edited by: Zarix ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Nice work DavidG, and Zarix.
It's nice to know that I'm so efficiant at losing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I'm heading towards another loss too. Zarix is doing quite well against me. Beating me ways I never saw coming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now give it a black background, SEIV blue text and font, and it'd perfect. I would even offer to host it as long as someone else maintains the actual file.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

I can host it, it was just getting tedious to maintain wwhat with everything else I have to take care of and DavidG offered to do that part for me.

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Way to go, fellas!

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now give it a black background, SEIV blue text and font, and it'd perfect. I would even offer to host it as long as someone else maintains the actual file.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like this: KOTH Standings

[ March 07, 2003, 22:51: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now give it a black background, SEIV blue text and font, and it'd perfect. I would even offer to host it as long as someone else maintains the actual file.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like this: KOTH Standings</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Perfectamundo!!!!

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Here is a .xlr file (MS Works spreadsheet) of the KOTH standings if anyone is interested. My original idea was to put the standings in a spreadshet and then cut and paste them into an html table. But I can't figure out how to do that?? Anyone know an easy way to do this?

KoTH Standings

[ March 07, 2003, 12:03: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

geo give stone mill a raise to the throne, he beat me, or rather i beat myself. darn ship strategies and that... had more ships, better economy up until the end but lost all my ships due to poor strategy on my part or very good on stone mills part.

so i bow to the new king and seek other avenues of success.

a and you can delete me for a while from the koth turnament.

thanks

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Wshew. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif King rotates his hips, dons sequin jumpsuit, and nibbles on peanut butter and banana sandwhich.

First and foremost, thanks to Preacherman for the great game.

He harassed me very well in the center and the north... did well and produced a LOT of ships! Big economy; Excellent on this. Threw me out of a few systems early too.
Also checked my expansion and got to minesweepers rather quickly, although I would have really been in trouble if he got them even quicker.

I played this one very carefully, and yes, that fleet was 20% and most of the ships were 20%. Most of those ships also had ECM III (60% defense). It took much patience, and he killed enough planets to start me worrying about riots- but training gave me a big edge. I went for combat stacking, got the edge, and never gave it up. This is the same game plan I used every greuliing fight up this hill.

So, I guess I am very happy and proud (for now), and I feel like I personified the very Clone I pointed out in my earlier thread:
KOTH: Attack of the Clones
Read it, it's pretty much what I'm doing. It's the way to win in KOTH. No surprises here, except for those who really did not grasp the impact of combat stacking.

Remember this: I had my royal rump handed to me by players who were sharper. But I learned from them, and did not give up. I kept adjusting my strategy, and kept on clawing. And, as your new King, I will continue the great tradition of community and sharing in this forum. I'll tell everyone exactly how I play. No secrets.

Secondly, kudos to Geo and the PBW team for all they do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thirdly... Asmala, You ain't nuthin but a hound dog. Remember baby, it's another 3000 miles to Graceland! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Stone Mill: Congrats on being the new king. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I look forward to playing you if ever I get the chance. Oh and nice avatar. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Thanks Rags! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Oh, and big thanks to David Gervais for the Avatar... been wanting to use it for a long while!

We'll see how long I get to brandish it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Congratulations, Stone Mill. But I'll crown ya real good....if I can beat Gecko. Darn drones aren't performing as expected....yet. Still very touch and go, with Gecko's ships looming ominously in my home system.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Ahhh yes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Cheeze, is it? Hmmm, I've reviewed your resume and decided to appoint you to the Intergalactic Highway rest stop oversight comission. Report to the office in the Cheezy yellow uniform of the day.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Congratulations, Stone Mill. *Clink* "King of the Hill!"

I read your "...Clones" thread (again) and found it very interesting. I usually bump up Attack and Defense, but I usually never pick Berzerkers. Not that I would have been competitive anyway, but thanks for the insight. I have a long way to go before I enter one of these tournaments.

When discussing winning combat gaming theories, there is a quote which you just lived out: "The only valid test is combat. The only valid result is victory." -- Steven V. Cole, designer of Star Fleet Battles.

Slick.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Slick,

That's high praise... Cheers, mate! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif KOTH still has many people banging around at all different levels... I suggest you give it a go sometime.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Anyone else noticed out new King has a bit of an attitude? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Hang on to that crown tight King you may be losing it soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Hail to the King. Now that you are at the top of the hill, what is up there? Any babes?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">An angry High Priest Primitive paces the floor on his palace at Vendrin III. When his quest for dominating the stars began, the Gods had promised a universe of untold riches. Yet, the half of the universe the Nindra now controlled was as poor as any dirtfarmer off Necron IX.

Most of the Nindras spare minerals had been used for the mighty armada sent to destroy the "Evil Eye", and still it failed. Migrid, the late chief adviser had dared to blame the defeat on lack of training before he found himself impaled on Primitives rusty (yet pointy) spear.

Hmm, maybe it will be wise to train the next armada better.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahh yes well, I guess the 'ol King can come off that way. Sorry, I'm a bit excited. I hope most folks know I'm a bit sarcastic, and I do try to help more than hurt. Still, your comments are treason! Into the Saarlac pit, Spaceman Spiff! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I just figure I better I should talk all the trash I can right now; I expect a really short reign with all the talent around here. Much of the game is luck, and everyone's luck does run out.

So, onward with my rediculous behavior! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Thermodyne, thank you. It is good to be the King. But you bring up an interesting point. Where the heck is the Royal Harem?!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Drones, they are sick. Drones cannot hit Gecko. Mines you hit very much. Gecko, drones are afraid. Ask Jobu to come, take fear from drones. Offer him cigar, rum. He will come.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

My drones were a little confused, so I had to adjust their perceptions of the space they traveled. It's a lot like trying to make sense of the green and purple Drazi. OY VEY!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Cheeze- Be Warned! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

No matter how tempting...

Whatever you do...

Do NOT drink Jobu's rum!

(Nice one, gecko) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Hey King StoneMill, you may not have noticed because of the problems with PBW I guess you don't get email notification but you've been assigned to the game with Asmala. He has already uploaded his empire file.

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Actually, the place I checked was the KOTH page... still did not see my match up just yet.

However, I e-mailed Asmala back; we're discussing and agreeing on game settings.

But I have some bad news. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif It's just awful! You will never believe it. I have to postphone my title defense. Of all the bad luck... I sprained my index finger.

(yeah, that's the ticket... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif )

I have a doctor's note and everything. Looks like it will be a while. OOOH! Feels like Carpal Tunnel, now. ouch. Man, sorry Asmala. I know it looks like I am malingering, but The King would never http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif EVER do that!!!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Asmala is bowing to the King
Of course you're right. The King is always right. Long live to the King! Asmala stood up while looking carefully for assassin he hired couple of days ago. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Assassin!?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
Where's the love, people? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Next thing you'll tell me is that you are going to reject my offer for a partnership in our game! Why do things have to get violent? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

A humbled High Priest Primitive bows his head in defeat. All his ships had been sent to challenge two massive Eteru navies in two large battles. Both battles had ended with the forces off the "Evil Eye" victorious.
There are no more ships.
There are no resources to build more.
Even the home planet of the Nindra is destroyed.
Resistance from the colonies could prolong the battle, but any chance of victory is long gone.

The "Evil Eye" will be the one to take a step forward in the quest for Kingship. But beware, for deep in the heart of Primitive, the fire still burns strong.

Geo:
Good luck in your next match http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Primitive and Geo- that was rather entertaining stuff! Congrats, Geo, looks like your end-run gamble paid off.

In another quadrant far, far away...
The upstart Asmala has made a claim on Stone Mill's throne. The King dismisses his political avenues and draws his sword...
for this... is a fighting King... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good luck Asmala! On-Guard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

King Harley Ra...ummm, I mean....Stone Mill, don't worry. I presented Jobu with a bucket of Kentucky Fried Extra-Crispy. He was quite pleased with the offering. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Asmala notices that his treacherous plot didn't work. The assassin was too slow and now he is forced to draw his own sword. Asmala knows well that the King is much more experienced swordsman so he is a bit worried.

I'll upload my turn when I'm home but it'll take about eight hours so be patient.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Help! Help! I'm being repressed.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do not speak the name "Harley Ra**" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif That name is forbidden here! And you have a 2% chance (cumulative) of actually summoning him by speaking his name! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

And do not think Gecko will fall for your ploy... If your drones do not hit... You will use the "Poison his people with high sodium, fat, and cholesterol" Intel Project! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Please realize my mind is not made up in this post, I am just considering things and want to get your opinions.

The Koth league has been an interesting experience, and I have learned much form it, but I am thinking it's got some flaws that may be unfixable.

1. Losing a single game send you to the bottom of the hill. A bit harsh? Certainly no fun.

2. Only works for two player games. Not everybody likes two player games. Not everybody does well at two player games.

3. You are in many ways at the mercy of your opponent. If you are playing a guy that is slow with the turns, what can you do? Not much. Complain to me, that's about it. If you and your opponent can't agree on settings, you can't just go play someone else who does like your sort of game. You have to play who I match you against, or one of you forfeits. That kind of sucks.

4. The league page is tedious to maintain, and therefore is frequently out of date. Mea Culpa.

5. You can't play more than one official game at a time. Some people don't like that I am sure.

So here's what I am thinking. We could scrap the current KOTH league and go to a ladder format. I can setup a league on myleague.com that will take care of most of the administration of rankings. The way it works if you aren't familier is everybody is on a ladder. If you beat a guy above you on the ladder you move up the ladder half the distance between the two of you. You move down if someone beats someone above you on the ladder and their half the distance puts them ahead of you.

There's more, but I got to run. Tell me what you think.

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

The primitive one just wants (a chanche) to become king http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Hill or Ladder doesn't really matter as long as it is an open tournament. And I would prefere if the two player format was kept.

Keep up the good work.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I only Lasted for one game for two reasons, one because my project was nearing release and I didn't have a lot of time, but also because of #2 above. This was the first, and probably Last, two player game of SEIV I've played. SEIV seems to lose a lot when there aren't multiple players to add intrigue to the game.

EDIT: No offense to my opponent, Ragnarok is a great person to play with/against http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Which leads to my $.02 worth of suggestion:
Maybe have games of 5-10 people and award them points based on finishing position. Then keep track of standings based on a player's total points divided by how many games that person has finished. That way faster players can move forward without unduly disadvantaging the slower players. I think I just made up a word. Anyway, that's my suggestion. Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 12, 2003, 23:49: Message edited by: DarkHorse ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do not speak the name "Harley Ra**" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif That name is forbidden here! And you have a 2% chance (cumulative) of actually summoning him by speaking his name! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

And do not think Gecko will fall for your ploy... If your drones do not hit... You will use the "Poison his people with high sodium, fat, and cholesterol" Intel Project! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Harley Ra***? Harley Ra-WHAT-?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it is time for a re-make of a certain forum that we used to play SE3 on.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I only Lasted for one game for two reasons, one because my project was nearing release and I didn't have a lot of time, but also because of #2 above. This was the first, and probably Last, two player game of SEIV I've played. SEIV seems to lose a lot when there aren't multiple players to add intrigue to the game.

EDIT: No offense to my opponent, Ragnarok is a great person to play with/against http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Which leads to my $.02 worth of suggestion:
Maybe have games of 5-10 people and award them points based on finishing position. Then keep track of standings based on a player's total points divided by how many games that person has finished. That way faster players can move forward without unduly disadvantaging the slower players. I think I just made up a word. Anyway, that's my suggestion. Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Games with more than two people have their problems too. It is very hard to find 10 people that will stick with a game from start to finish. And once a person has the pleasure of being a replacement, they seldom come back for more.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1. Seems a bit harsh...and doesn't reflect the game we played as a child...'cause if you were trying for the top of the hill, you didn't always fall back to the bottom. Not sure how to change it, though.

2. Yeah, but 2-player reflects one against one. And not 2 against 1. Or something uneven like that. It's bad enough to get a bad position (system-wise, etc.) without throwing in additional things which may thwart what might be excellent play by an individual. Also, can't quite figure out why someone would be bad at 2-player. Does that mean they only do good when they have diplomacy at their disposal? Which may lead to what I was talking about at the beginning of this me item.

3. Yeah, I'm not sure what to suggest for that. Perhaps the name could be shown in the grid (or ladder) with a number that reflects the hourly limit they will commit to with regularity. Then people could be paired according to that number (or as near as possible).

4. OBE, we say in our office... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Surely there must be another enterprising individual with the requisite skills to provide you some relief. This would me access to the server (gulp) or someone who could also provide the bandwidth.

5. Not sure what this one means. If you mean more than one KOTH game at once, I wouldn't think that would work. So....

Anyway, my two-cents worth. (BTW, I just petitioned to join KOTH).

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Perhaps fall back only 1 level?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With the number of people in the league, I don't see this as a problem. The 2 player experience is indeed different, but is also quite enjoyable IMHO.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, and the only work around that I see is that players who enter the league have to realize that compromise is expected and appreciated. Either that or come up with hard set KOTH settings for all games.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would be happy to help with administration tasks.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Kind of the nature of the beast. Again, if you want to join the league, you accept this.

Just my thoughts.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

1. "Harsh"?? It's just a game. who cares how far you fall

2. I love 2 player games. They rekindled a somewhat fading interest in this game. I don't think I'd join a multiplayer league

3. If you don't like your oppoent surrender. It's just a game. 'Tis supposed to be fun. Can people really not agree on settings?!!? I think it is fun to play on different settings. And if you really can't agree that's what default settings are for.

4. Well yea. I don't know were you find the time

5. More than one game at a time would lead to those with LOTS of time on their hands moving to the top very quick. Then again see response 1 and 3, It's just a game so who really cares.

Edit - Basically all I want is a place to find a big pool of players willing to play 2 player games. The format is not really that important to me although some way to record your progress does make it a bit more fun.

[ March 13, 2003, 00:47: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Well, I know this might be an unpolular and "way in the outfield" kind of response...but that never stopped me from running my mouth.

When I played in MechWarrior leagues (before the cheating got to be too much for me), some people really went all out on a website to show results of contests and battles between clans. I always liked those statistics and rankings. Like chess, you got more points from beating someone more equal to your ranking and less points for whipping up on, well, wimpy clans.

Not that I presume to know what the PBW crowd wants, but if I had to take a guess a what a lot of people might like, it's a way to see where they rate against a lot of other players. Bragging rights (or else crawl in a hole from embarrassment... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Seems like (I'm speaking without thinking--so what's new, right?) something like that could be worked out by forcing people to play with a newborn race for each game and then working out a computation based on the experience points at the end of the game and figuring in placement. Then, this ranking (along with other multipliers if appropriate and useable) would be posted. In mechwarrior, the winning team was obliged to report the win and the losing clan was required to "sign off" on it...verification.

Anyway, it's a huge suggestion and a big departure from what is kind of simple and easy to handle (in comparison). So, pardon me.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to see what I'm talking about:

Mechwarrior League Play

(just click on any of the league links and then from the menu on the left, find UNITS and then under it, choose View Units to see the kind of grid I was talking about.)

Cheers!

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that I no longer wish to participate in KOTH. It just is not as much fun as I thought it would be. I hereby officially tender my resignation from KOTH.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

I like many of the comments here... but with Gandalph, I really agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Especially about falling back one level.

And Slynky, I think you are on to something with the league rankings... but I think many would argue the fact that your empire score is irrevelant in single player rankings/matches.

It would be great to devise a system based on current rank and the rank of your opponent, and points awarded for victory. www.spring1942.com did this very well for an Axis and Allies league. Not saying that this would be easy, but I could refresh my memory on the calculation they used, and check back in if you are interested...