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my one VP game experience was Epotara - 17 players vying for 5 VPs. i thought that game worked fairly well. it was pretty challenging to get 5 capitals - once someone got within 2 everyone was on alert and it was only through some tricky diplomacy (to put it generously) that someone managed to grab the last 1.

the game did get into a bit of a quiet lull for awhile so i don't know if the same ratio would make sense, e.g. using ~ 1/3 of the # players as the target amount of VPs. that sounds a bit high to me - i think the game might be more interesting and exciting with a slightly lower total.

of course this is based on a data set of one...
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Well, what if we compromised? 20 capitals is 1/3 the map, a reasonable number imo. Alternatively, could we say 15 capitals held consecutively for 3 full turns? That would give people a chance to respond if someone does manage it...

And I would really like to push for Very Hard research again. With Hard research, everyone is going to be finished researching like halfway through the game, long before the winner is found. Anyone seconding me--or strongly opposed? ; )

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Very hard sounds good to me.

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I just finished playing a large game with Hard Research, and even with those settings bless nations have a huge advantage in the early game. I was playing with triple blessed jaguars, and the non-bless nations that I steamrolled in the first 2 years of the game did not have much of a chance or very much fun. I think that if with we play with Very Hard Research, we will see an initial phase of the game where all the non-bless nations are scoured from the face of the earth, and then a second phase of the game where the bless nations grudgingly turn to research in order to deal with their similarly blessed neighbors.

In an ideal world, I would like to see the research costs for levels 1-5 set to normal, and then after that have the costs scale far more quickly. That would give non-bless nations more of fighting chance, while still saving some spells for the late game.

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Hmm, that's a good point. One I hadn't thought of. It's too bad though; I *hate* Dom3 lategame. With Hard research, the entire back half of this game will consist of nothing but Mages and SCs, with individual military units useless as anything but meatshields. (Well okay, I exagerrate. But not by much!)

All right, consider me shifted back to neutral on Hard or Very Hard research. I will play either way (which probably means Hard ; ).

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I'm personally in favor of Hard.

I do however understand the concern people have for late game strategies arriving in the middle of the game's run. AdmiralZhao's "ideal world" does sound appealing, but isn't possible as far as I know in the way he would want it.

My best suggestion would actually be to make an additional mod. It wouldn't be hard at all to take all the lower level spells and move them even lower by one rank and then set the research to very hard.

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If you still have room I'd like to join as a player or as an alternate if not.

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If the goal is only to give more chance to non bless nations against sacred/trampler/awake pretenders rushes a mod to reduce just the levels of the few spells countering them, or make some low level spells more efficient, seem easily doable, just changing one or two spells per path (and only fatigue/immobilisation spells, so it doesn't change the balance of battle summons / dammages).

Edit : some suggestions

Air... has already false fetter a very good level 1 spell to immobilize ennemies (but only usable at short range)
confusion may get reduced level (2 or 3 instead of 5, as thaumaturgy is not a very popular school for air nations)

Astral... mind burn (level 2) already give a way to kill low hp sacreds
paralyze level may be reduced to make easier to stop tramplers or other big creatures

Earth... has already earth grip/meld at level 1 and 2
earth meld is fatigue heavy and earth 3 so lowering the cost or earth level may eventually be a good idea to give nations like Ulm more chances against an early rush

Death... terror and ghost grip levels may be reduced

Fire... Prison of fire and rage may get reduced levels

Nature... has tangle vine/vine arrow in level 1/2 but range/precision are bad
Sleep/Sleep Cloud and/or Panic are good candidates for -1 level

Water... Slime (level 1) is a very good spell against low numbers of powerful units out of the seas (if they don't have high MR) ; making possible to use it underwater may reduce the Oceania's sacreds advantage among sea nations
Numbness may get its level reduced to 2, offering a way to weaken high MR units (if they are not cold immune)

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Or just restrict the awesome power of the heavy bless strategies. None of these nations become hopeless if their bless is slightly weakened.

Just don't allow more than one 9+ path on a Pretender. Or don't allow any Imprisoned Pretenders. That will still allow powerful blesses but just weaken them a little.

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i'd like to play if there is still space.