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Patch 3.04
Server is back up running version 3.04.
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Re: Patch 3.04
retake our turns under new patch?
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Re: Patch 3.04
You should not have to replay your turn. You can if you want to. You might log in and check that your orders are what you expect. But, battle replays will be wrong for last turn if you replay it with 3.04, since last turn was generated with 3.00.
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Re: Patch 3.04
This turn the great armies of R'lyeh and Atlantis have given the Sea of Blood a battle worthy of its name!
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Re: Patch 3.04
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Re: Patch 3.04
You won, but as someone once said, too many more victories like that and you will be undone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: Patch 3.04
You outnumbered me by about 100 troops. And the only reason I lost the amount of men that i did was because of your sea trolls. And now most of your sea trolls are dead, and I killed every single one of your giboleths. And my strongest units are still standing. The effect of the battle was exactly what I wanted.
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
The nation of R'lyeh has need of Astral Pearls in order to perfect our calendar. We have a large number of what we believe are known as "Air Gems." We consider this "air" to be a mysterious substance, unwholesome to breathe and not entirely natural, and wish to exchange this magical essence for one more befitting of our nation.
Any interested land-dwellers should contact us. |
Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
We'd trade you 30 for 30.
The Great Catsby has Spoken. |
Begun it has
The cries of agony from the people of the Sauromatia region has deeply sadden the heart of our dear God Agatha. As such, Her Most Magnificent has dispatched a peacemaking force into the territory of the T'ien ch'i.
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Re: Begun it has
Haha, the magic of TienChi is pretty ridiculous. A remote spell that kills over 50% of my troops gave me a good grin. I didn't even realize that magic got that powerful. What the point of making an army? or even playing the game?
Luckily, I survived long enough into this game to at least learn something. It was a good first try at Dom3. I'll set myself to computer after I finish transactions and promises to other players. |
Re: Begun it has
Magical dominance can be difficult to overcome. But, it looks like you have an unexpected ally in Ulm. You should not quit here. You have one of the strongest nations, even after this attack.
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Re: Begun it has
1 Attachment(s)
By which you mean that your forces treacherously broke the alliance and invaded an undefended border. Do you honestly think this is a good idea considering the losses you took against province defense?
Attached are some pictures from our battles against Yomi this turn. By the way, here's the web of destruction that Yomi was in for: First, we sent a magically early winter to the lands Yomi was invading so that snow was cold and deep upon the ground. Then we froze the heart of their camp devastating their worthless goblin lives while our forces were invading. As the only remaining neighbors of Tien Chi who have yet to betray the trust of Catsby, I offer the scaled hand of friendship to Rlyeh and Abysia. We can help you in many ways and you can jolly well just not stab your tiny daggers into the thunderous ankles of our empire! That would be great. Sheesh. We realize that we are the Middle Kingdom, that our lands stand not just metaphorically but actually at the center of the world and that all nice lands are but a subset of the glorious lands of Tien Chi. We can only imagine the jealousy that must run cold in the blood of those who do not live in the lands of Tien Chi, but for all that we also must stress that we are perfectly willing to allow foreigners to visit our glorious lands and feel the inadequacy that must naturally overtake anyone who must content themselves with living in a land that is not Tien Chi. But please, stop invading Tien Chi. This is the fifth empire that has volunteered itself for destruction by throwing the flower of their youth into the spears of Tien Chi. It's getting to the point where we can't even spare the troops to actually finish off some of these false gods. They are like lice in an inconvenient place. We aren't even losing territory or troops particularly, only patience. The Great Catsby has Spoken |
Re: Begun it has
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So, break your armies up into smaller units and fight on a wider front. Deploy your SCs, who will basically be uneffected by this kind of spell. I know its really demoralizing when you take a major loss like this, but if you walk away now you walk away from an opportunity to gain end game experience. Not to mention that it is bad form to set your empire to AI unless you are down to just a couple of provinces. If you are really intent on leaving and your empire is still relatively whole you should find a replacement. |
Re: Begun it has
As far as pd is concerned, there was more there than just pd. I havent even scripted my mages yet, or organised my troops into proper formations, the time deadline forced me to rush things with just minutes to spare.
Truth be told, I don't even want to attack you, I just want the game to be over and go out with a bang. And I rather do it this way then going AI or turning the reins over to someone else. |
Re: Begun it has
We don't believe your lies.
The Great Catsby has Spoken Anyway, a good example of how to get around the Murdering Winter problem is Ulm's army - it is composed of Cold Resistant Barbarians (their cold resistance is pretty dissappointing compared to Murdering Winter, but still), and Constructs. Clockwork Horrors don't get affected by cold at all, so they give a lot of resistance to the army against that attack. (a number of constructs get hit instead of regular troops and those hits are negated in full). For 50 gems, it just isn't worth hitting an army of Ulm with that. -Frank |
Re: Begun it has
Eh, it was my first game. I would rather die and learn something than waste my time playing in a game where I didn't have a chance of being the winner.
To be honest, I think you, Frank, are too experianced to be playing in a newbie game. As if to make matters worse, you boast everytime you beat a nation who not only is smaller than you, but also less experianced. I don't know if your attempting to act in character or anything, but acting like a jerk, even in character, doesn't enrich the game for anyone, so I don't know why you do it. I will thank you again, though, for the lesson in the game. It taught me more about the game than the manual ever could. But I still don't understand why you think I broke an alliance or anything. I was under the impression that alliances had to be agreed on and in dominions people are considered enemies untill proven friends? You sure didn't charge me for the artifacts at your posted ally prices. As for turning myself over to AI, I didn't realize it was bad form to do that. Tien Chi will have 90% of my lands within 5 turns anyways, so the situation isn't one that a replacment player would have fun with. Ill stick around and see if I can manage to win a single battle. |
Re: Begun it has
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---- I am really surprised that everybody has such low research. I know this a newbie game, but I thought everyone would be higher. |
Re: Begun it has
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"Never let a barbarian know he has something you want. Value nothing that comes from far away." That became Imperial Doctrine under the first Emperor of Zhou, and since we're during the Spring and Autumn time period, that seems immensely appropriate. It's a studiedly political stance. By refusing to acknowledge that other empires have anything you fear or value, the Empire of China was able to inflate the appeal of their own goods in distant lands. But there are also occassional deliberate choices made about what boasts and threats we send out. For example, the infamous "Witch Kings are not Gods!" speech was made to hide the fact that at that moment my third army was out of position - there was literally nothing standing between his raiding force and the deeper bowels of my empire. He could have marched virtually unopposed all the way to Abysia, burning as he went. So we made a speech about how there was no avenue of escape in order to bluff Sauromatia into sending his troops to attempt to force a path back to his home supply lines - a path which was thouroughly closed. Similarly, when we announced that we were going to invade Arcocephale in a few turns if they didn't negotiate we were pretty sure that they were just going to attack instead - and we timed the release of that demand with the movement of a group of troops into the border province knowing that we could move more troops into that area than Arcocephale already had in the adjacent province. The result was a stomping. So yeah, there are some calculated bluffs thrown in there to attempt to draw opponents into "proving us wrong" in ways that aren't actually to their advantage. But mostly it's a pastiche of historical Chinese diplomatic posturing. Even the trade in items for gems mimics the Chinese demand for payment only in gold. (But in Dominions the most valuable currency is gems, not gold, so we use that instead). Quote:
Helheim honestly did announce their invasion of my lands. Arcocephale, Sauromatia, Yomi, Abysia, and Ulm did not. Abysia and I eventually made a peace settlement of sorts and that particular war ended with no hard feelings and relatively few casualties. Tien Chi would be completely happy with accepting an alliance with a "barbarian" nation and attempting to declare a co-victory. Honestly, I can't imagine wanting to play this game to the bitter bitter end. I think I prefer the Victory Point model being used in the other games I'm playing. At least that has a fixed ending in sight. Unfortunately, Ulm decided to "go out with a bang" and attempt to burn my capitol to the ground. -Frank And here's the in-character bit to Ulm: You will find now that you have passed our wall that it will be difficult for you to make progress, harder still to take your spoils back with you. As you approach the heart of our nation, know also that you approach our labs and and our forges. Even now our armies reposition to hold you fast. These are the lands where our magics rule, and you will tire quickly. Every turn we can distract you, delay you, misdirect you is another turn that we move closer to defeating you. Do you think that you can stand against the armies that destroyed Yomi's forces? If you turn back now, I will spare you their wrath. The Great Catsby has Spoken |
Re: Begun it has
I think what happened in this game is we had alot of people new to multiplayer dominions put against veterans of dominions 1 and 2 multiplayer that used the excuse "This is my first game of dominions 3" to beat up on some people totally new to the series.
I don't think this particular game was meant for veterans of other dominions games that were new to dominions 3, or the game would have been open to anyone seeing how it just came out a few weeks before the nooby game started. |
Re: Begun it has
I never claimed i was new, i simply admitted that i suck and was allowed in.
And as for me and tien chi having a war, it was more like 2 assasins killing 2 mages then making peace... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
Re: Begun it has
About VPs: I explicitly opted not to use VPs in this game so that you guys would have to play to the bitter end. If you'd ended too early then you never would have gotten experience with spells (and the tactics needed to defeat them) like Murdering Winter or Ghost Riders. Anyway, in games w/o VPs, what normally happens is that one nation comes pretty clearly out on top. Then you can discuss with all the players whether you think your position is unchallengable, particularly with the #2 player. If there is agreement, you just declare someone the winner.
As for Frank or Shovah being too experienced for this game: It's possible that they were. There is no system for ranking dominions players or evaluating thier experience. I had to make a judgement call and I made it, so that's that. In the end what matters is the experience you gained as a result of this game, which i think was pretty huge for everyone. |
Re: Begun it has
Well being thrown up against better players taught me alot. The veteran players that snuck into this game had a firm grasp of magic usage that I hope to learn from. In my future games I plan to use some of the strategies I saw implemented in this game or I heard talked about on this thread.
So while the first nooby game of Dominions 3 may be won by a veteran player, I think that if all the true noobies take something from the game, we end up coming out ahead. |
Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing
We had our first big fight with Ulm, and it generally went our way as far as the army vs. army portion went.
The take-home message is that having all of your troops do one thing is ultimately futile. One tactic, no matter how good, no matter how strong, no matter how many troops are behind it - can be adapted to. Ulm sent an army composed of essentially four things: Clockwork Horrors (240 units) Archers (250 units) Hydra Hatchlings (26 Units) Warrior Smiths (26 Units) And various sundry minor participants to round the totals out to 31 Leaders, 319 Normal Units, and 243 Magic Beings. It was slaughtered. I don't mean just that it lost 10 Leaders, 229 Normal Units, and all 243 Magical Beings - I mean that it managed to kill no leaders, no undead, and only 36 normal units (out of 151) and 1 Magic Being (out of 6). What went wrong? The problem here was a lack of versatility. Because there were so few types of units on the field, the forces of Tien Chi were able to make a battle plan around the upcoming onslaught and severely undermined his army because it hinged on only a few effects. Things in Dominions have counters. No exceptions. So an army of Clockwork Horrors can be countered. And army of 240 Clockwork Horrors can be countered the same way. In this case it was by casting: Quagmire Curse of Stones Swarm The combination was devastating. His Clockwork Horrors moved less far because of the swampy ground, gained extra fatigue because of the Curse of Stones, and were delayed for precious turns slicing through Dragonflies. As a result, they ran out of Fatigue before they even saw battle with my main army. When they were finally trampled to death en mass by the chariots, they didn't even hold up their hands in resistance. Next up, the archers. A quarter of a thousand Ulmish maidens of the bow. Backed up by Fire Arrows even. Unfortunately, an entirely archery dependent army is of relatively little use when faced with an Arrow Shield. Enter Arrow Fend, a spell that grants Air Shield to the entire army. We cast it on the first turn. The army of Ulm was destroyed. Cleaning it up won't be easy or fast, there's a hundred units retreating in various directions,a nd he still has Bane Lord Super Combatants wandering the lands killing Province Defense. It's quite an offensive. But because the main thrust was simply the same thing repeated dozens or hundreds of times, a small collection of strange magics was able to slay his entire army with negligible losses. The take home lesson: don't put all your Faith in one thing. Any thing. I don't care how good it is. I don't care how strong it looks. I don't care how easy it is to reiterate the same tactic over and over again. There's a counter for everything. And if your entire army is the same, your entire army can be countered by one thing. A throw together force of Tien Chi militia can analyze your force composition and put up a force less than 40% your size and slaughter you down with losses over 13 times what you dish out in return. Really it's the same problem that Yomi had. An army of 300 copies of one thing isn't six times better than an army of 50 copies of that same thing. -Frank |
Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing
What could Yomi have done to stop you from casting murdering winter? What troops does Yomi even have access to to combat your forces? What could I have done?
I didn't have any good independants, or if i did the province had 12-20 reasources. My castles can only produce chaff troops of hp9 and low prot, or archers of the same quality. That, or incredibly overpriced Oni, which have 6 or less protection anyways. We get no sacred troops; our battle mages are either 500 gold a piece, or the Hannyas which burn and fatigue our own troops! I understand WHY my armies were easily beaten, just not HOW it could have been avoided. Especially given my ignorence of the magic system and available spells. |
Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing
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But if you'd split things up, so that you had three armies instead of 2, so that each army had a mixture of Onis, Bakemono, Undead, and Constructs, then there wouldn't have been a good target for Murdering Winter. That's ultimately what I meant by keeping it a secret so that you wouldn't have a chance to repossition your units. A mixed force or a divided army would have taken pretty miniscule losses against that spell for the cost (remembering that every Murdering Winter is essentially a Troll Court that I don't have). Quote:
Of course, the Bakemono Archers themselves only cost 8 gold. An army of 300 of them really is only 2400 gold worth of troops. That's less than 20 Wind Riders, and you'd already heard that the armies of Tien Chi went through that with only horrendous losses. To a very real degree, you get what you pay for. And Bakemono Archers even in large numbers are not a large force by the standards of the day (compare: Ulm is throwing around an army that had 250 Ulmish Archers and 243 cold immune constructs - that's an army). In short, you weren't attacking with an army the caliber of the armies that were marching around on your border. It wasn't science fiction enough, it wasn't diverse enough, and it wasn't nearly large enough for the amount of troops it was looking at. Finally, Quote:
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Indeed, since you controlled the planes section between the two major battle fields, it was entirely within your means to have moved some or all of one army group into the other province - forcing my forces to fight the entire force. The divide and raid plan relies entirely on the fact that that is an available strategy. Since one team could combine arms, the defender (that's still me by the way) has to alot for that fact and cannot afford to split forces to fight small battles. Movement occurs after the magic phase, so spells like Mind Hunt and Murdering Winter apply only to the troops that aren't moving into that province. -Frank |
Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing
Warnings... loooong post
Finally I Agartha are dead. Maverni and Atlantis quite effiecently cut me down and eliminated all my dominion. My 25 or something priests had no chance to preach to the people about me as both Maverni and Atlantis outnumbered my priests. My last action as I knew this would be my last turn were to breake the siege and try to do as much damage as possible to Maverni. I was owned on the battlefield as Maverni used much better tactic than me but atleast I took some 118 or something with me to my grave. I started the game in Aklavik Pass very near the northwestern corner. I thought that was good but quickly I had to realize that it was very crowdy up there. I ran into Maverni and Yomi south of me early and I immediatly started to negotiate with Maverni about an alliance against Yomi. At first I thought the negotiation was going good but after a few months the messenger from Maverni was not going to Agartha anymore. Meanwhile I was attacking hard eastwards and I reached Sauromatias capital at the time when he was stalling so I tried to seize the moment and attacked the capital... well I was trashed by the PD and a new player took control of Sauromatia. He pushed me back immediatly... meanwhile I had started negotiations with Yomi as I realized that Maverni was planning to attack me. Yomi and I agreed to a NAP but he warned me about attacking Maverni as he told me they were allied and he would have to take his side if I was the aggressor. Also Yomi is a good negotiator he asked for 2 provinces that bordered his capital (I took them because of Yomis big mistake of sending a Dai-Oni to his death while the troops were hiding away) as I still had no friend I had no choice but to agree. I realized that my war with Sauromatia would be hard for me to fight because of the long supply route and that Maverni was gathering forces on the border, so Sauromatia and I agreed to a border and now I could concentrate on my southern would be enemy Maverni. I still couldn't make the initial attack due to the pact between Yomi and Maverni so I started gathering troops. Since my territory was small, only 5 provinces I got way to small income. I had to push the taxes up to 200% while patrolling. This I did in all my provinces and actually had the highest income of all for a couple of turns (I killed approx 9000 of my starting 30000 population in my capitol over the years as they tried to rebel against my high taxes). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Maverni made the first move and attacked and totally trashed my army in the first battle. He used loads of Eponi Knights on the flanks where I had 0, zero, zip, nada troops he slaughtered my army quite good. Quickly I sent more troops to the front. Atlantis showed up and become a new bordering nation. I quickly new that he was allied to Maverni as he refused to help me against them. Now I had two 1 province fronts, 1 against each of them. Many battles was fought and at one time I really thought that I had a chance of pushing them back far. In the end... I lost... but that you already know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif So did I learn anything? Sure did I learned more in this game than every SP game I have played in Dominions 3 and Dominions 2 DEMO. I want to thank FAJ (Yomi) and llamabeast (Sauromatia) for being good neighbours I also would like to thank Sheap (R'lyeh) for all the friendly messeges but most of all I want to thank my nemesis Xox (Maverni) and Darrel (Atlantis) for making this game fun. There actually was a moment I though I could advance on you... but you quickly killed that dream. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Bye all |
Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing
Thanks Frank for the analysis. It is my hopes to give you one good (or at least better informed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) fight before I am dead.
By the way, is it possible to kill Oni with murdering winter? At most its one attack on them, and they all have a double life if they die. |
Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing
Abysia has joined the 'we hate tien chi' group and will be attacking as soon as our NAP is over.
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Re: Don\'t Put your Faith in One Thing
Saarud: You sort of got a raw deal with the sub (which was me at the time) taking over right before you were ready to attack the Sauromatian capital. On the other hand, if you are attacking a staling player, you need to move fast - they might return, someone might sub for them, and it's not like they're going to defend themselves.
Edit: I have no idea how Ulm consistently gets their turns done, like, 30 seconds before the timer expires http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
Respect for the dead
Saarud you were a very very tough opponent. I could not understand how you had such a huge army with just 5 provinces. But then i figured out about the patrolling when i saw the population left in your capitol. And you never gave up and even attacked out of your capitol at the exact same time your dominion waned.
You never ever gave up and did all you could as long as you could. Next time i hope to be on your side. Both of us realized what a tough opponent you were and tried to make peace with you even though we knew we could win. I I understand why you refused. this was a very crowded game wiht close start positions. Through victory and defeat you were a very good opponent in skill and most importanly in civility and good humour. We put up many monuments to the brave people who once lived in these lands. although we also talk about how cruel these agarthas were to the local populace with their oppresive and deadly taxes I salute you and your brave Agartha. Xox |
Re: Respect for the dead
NOt sure how much skill it took to defeat ulms army, after attacking Tien Chi I think he went stale last turn and seems to have gone stale this turn also. Two turns in a row.
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Re: Respect for the dead
they are doing their turn just before the turn timer? Ok, strange though.
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Re: Respect for the dead
I may not be a newbie, but I sure am doing a good job pretending to be one. Yeesh.
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Re: Respect for the dead
hmm, somewhere along the way from 3.00 to 3.04 the price of Oni dropped http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. Biggest troop ones went from 65 to 50 and the aka oni went from 30 to 25.
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Re: Respect for the dead
Too bad that didnt happen earlier eh?
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Re: Respect for the dead
Does air shield affect 'throw fire'?
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Re: Respect for the dead
Frank, I have a question about the Ankh effect (and spell) Life After Death. Once the battle is over, do you still have the reanimated Undead troops in your army? Or do they disappear after the battle is over?
I remember having the Ankh in some SP games and I don't remember the reanimated troops remaining in my army after the fight was over. |
Re: Respect for the dead
@kydorias:I dont think they stay so i will say no though im not 100% sure.
@FAJ:im not sure, it seems like it shouldnt since its fire but it seems like it should since its a missile, you'd probably be best to test it for yourself. |
Re: Respect for the dead
I am 100% certain that creatures brought back with the Ankh persist after the battle. Furthermore, Souless do not get kicked out of their command positions even if the character couldn't command them and Undead Priests made in this way can animate the dead.
It's pretty sweet. -Frank |
Re: Respect for the dead
yea, the ankh is a great artifact.
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Re: Respect for the dead
Finally playing my turn now... sorry guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
Hehe, no sweat.
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
So guys, ive been away from the computer a few turns and cant connect to the server, how much has tien chi stomped my head in?
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
heh, I actually don't think you staled at all, the power has been so bad that the game really hasn't been progressing. When power comes back, though, you'll be the only one left to play.
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
I have one thing to say: YAY!
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
Deleted
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
Any news for us about the server? I have not been able to connect for a long time..
-Whollaborg |
Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
AFAIK his powers still out.
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Re: MP: Newbie Game EA (Open)
I have power and hopefully will have Internet tonight. Yay.
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