Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Yeah, they have. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But they are vulnerable enough. Also, Sauromatia probably should have real SCs by now.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Timer increased to 48 hours on request of RenoJustin.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Sorry guys, I barely made my last move, let alone have time to write battle reports. Maybe now that it's gone up to 48 hours.

The smashing of Lanka's army was exhilarating, at the same time vengefully repulsing an attack from Caelum, who routed from the fortress with heavy losses!

I have several armies, mages, it takes a while to script fights now. So, not bad, made it to turn 40 eh?

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Sauromatia is bold enough to attack a castle now, eh? Yet still, they avoid the Giboleths like the plague! Yoth'Shothogg is beginning to doubt the 'might' of Sauromatia, if they are so afraid of young Giboleths.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Your seas are already ours, you gibbering slime. Tremble in your doomed fortress and bleat your words of fear for all to hear, it will not change your fate.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

We Aboleths do not see R'lyeh under the hands(or claws, as the case may be) of Sauromatia. Nor, in fact, will we ever see it in Sauromatia's hands.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Some degree of correction is required here. Sauromatia did indeed defend its fortress successfully but Caelum doesn't mind the "heavy losses" of ~70 troops as all of them are very easily replaced. Sauromatia, on the other hand, lost 9 out of 11 commanders who were in the fort and some ~40 troops.

So in the end it's safe to say Caelum won the day.

-This transmission was delivered to you by independent Caelian war reporters-

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Caelum lost 90 troops, lots of Iron Crows got eaten by some hastily-summoned lions and the bright green ranks of veteran amazon infantry showed their worth in combat; we lost some warrior sorceresses but also some trash commanders. The troop losses were really quite light. The gold and tactical win were both easily on our side.

And Lanka, nice try with your magic arrows from the sky, but Sauromatian camp scouts are trained to watch the clouds day and night for an attack like this and so it was thwarted!

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

I wonder, could Sauromatian scouts stop Polypal Mothers falling from the sky? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Okay Sauro, now you provoked Caelum into really digging up the battle data. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Caelum lost:
28x iron crow(15 gold): 420 gold
51x spirehorn warrior/archer(10 gold): 510 gold
->79 units in total, costing 930 gold

Sauromatia lost:
4x warrior sorceress(160 gold, these are lot cheaper than I thought!): 640 gold
enarie: 150 gold
indy priest: 40 gold
2x soothsayer (60 gold): 120 gold
ichtyid lord: 40 gold
26x amazon warrior/androphag archer/sauromatian archer (10-13 gold): 260 gold
->26 units and 9 commanders in total, costing 1250 gold

In addition Sauromatia had 52 gems invested in this battle(in form of summons, thistle mace & gems on commanders) while Caelum spent 2 air gems.

Still feeling Caelum was the nation paying the price in said battle? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

These items and summons still exist. If you want to price the value of the fight in gold, I'd be happy to.

1250g = 25% of my turn's income,
vs
930g = 70% of your turns' income

So, keep em coming! T'ien Ch'i is eyeing your properties now that it is finishing up with Ulm.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Yes, just as I said. Having more territory, Sauromatian empire can safely invest more into each fight than any one other country. Taken together, though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
As for Tien Chi 'finishing' Ulm, it isn't quite as close as some may think.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif In any case, Tien Chi will probably HAVE to attack Sauromatia soon, though Sauromatia doesn't have to attack Tien Chi - it can win without fighting them at all! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Though it may require some surprise attack on those Giboleths who think they are so unbeatable... or just Dominion-killing them.
To Abysia:
Unfortunately, your winning in diplomacy becomes meaningless as soon as you are crushed with brute force. That's one of reasons I said that attacking before alliance was formed was probably your mistake - Tien Chi, for example, formed an alliance before attacking me...

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

So your prophet managed to pick up the mace after the fight, that's unfortunate. If we go this way and deduct the gem value of your still alive summons(11/17*25gems=16gems) and thistle mace(10 gems) from the cost of getting them, you lost 26 gems, which is significantly less than 52 but still a lot for a single battle I think.

This is a fair point actually but relative amounts are just, well, relative. As long as the price of rebuilding those 79 units doesn't prevent me from recruiting mages, it doesn't matter how big of a percentage of my one turn income they represent and in this particular case it doesn't prevent mage recruitment.

Oh, I will come for you Sauromatia! It sounds like you are the defender already in our war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Tien Chi is a bit of a black horse as they have been quite silent in this game(at least towards Caelum). It'll be interesting to see what is their course of action. Attacking Caelum instead of Sauromatia would be rather unwise though if Tien plans to win this game.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

T'ien Ch'i would be very wise to attack Sauromatia while his forces are split on 4-5 fronts.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

He will probably wait for some time, though - he seems to me a methodical person.

Re: On the same topic . . .
 

Seems to me that's just pure foolishness. He can wait in which time Sauromatia will be even stronger after having wiped out his other opposition, or he can strike now or really soon and face a more spread out Sauromatia. Then again, if he waits chances are Sauromatia will simply will by having enough capitals. lol.

On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

Yoth'Shothogg does not believe T'ien Ch'i will attack Sauromatia. She has been kind enough to provide a list of reasons why she believes so.

-T'ien Ch'i has not, to R'lyeh's knowledge, accepted or even replied to any offer to attack Sauromatia
-T'ien Ch'i has not, to R'lyeh's knowledge, replied to any messages sent to it, at least by R'lyeh
-T'ien Ch'i has done nothing so far against Sauromatia, and may even be helping Sauromatia

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

T'ien C'hi has not replied to any of R'lyeh's messages because R'lyeh has, from the beginning of the game, been a blowhard without any power. You have been a drunken peasant fresh from the rice paddies barking empty howls in the presence of generals.

To be quite honest you have not been worth responding to because you have not said anything I did not already know, and because your threats and calls for alliance have been meaningless because you yourself have no power.

Also it does not help that your messages are flowery and egotistical. T'ien C'hi prefers its lessers to acknowledge the fact rather than continue belaboring the false notion of their divinity. Why should we entertain your preenings when the ancestral masters have read in the stars the fall of your race a thousand years before the birth of the oldest aboleth?

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

Has Tien'chi has not foreseen the fall of their own race at the hand of Sauromantia, as a direct result of their lack of action against them ? That makes Claire wonder how much "acknowledge the facts rather than continue belaboring the false notion of their divinity" they really have. Claire adds : unless, of course, they have a plan to counter it. Claire has seen that wasting their armies against Ulm's has not really been that successful up to now, and Claire wonders now how much of a "blowhard without any power" Tien'Chi really is, and who the "generals" really are.

Maybe the "celestial" masters should before speaking about hypothetical futures of other races, even before checking their own futures, checking the present reality of the world.

Claire has. Claire acted in consequence. Claire asks again : will you join the crusade or remain a peasant that beat up other peasants when bandits are at their back clearing up the backyard instead of striking them when they are vulnerable ?

Claire disagrees. Claire's mistake that would cost her victory was to die during the second month after the pantokrator died. That prevented her from taking the territory that forced a pointless war against Ryleh, prevented most of the firepriest from researching the spells needed to repel an invasion for a year, and left the north side open to a double invasion since Claire could not secure the land that could have blocked Sauromantia's advance to the south.

Claire however, has not attacked too soon, but too late. You forget why the diplomatic victory was scored. Part of it is as I said in the few last topic : Sauromantia's openly shown greed and arrogance has made it the "enemy". Another part is because in a war, your allies move because you move. Sauromantia had diplomacy in his hands with secrets dealings with most nation and at that time organised wars with others. The only way to grasp that control was not using the same methods, since, basically, Claire had nothing to offer but a promise to attack that could be : a lie or a diplomatic standstill. With no one daring taking a risk (since the first one to attack would undoubtly take the wrath of the defender). Getting enough allies could get months of undoing and there was no just months to spare.

What Claire did then was setting a precedent. Risked accelerating the rise of Sauromantia in order to break the forementioned alliances, making them realize that even by swallowing their neighbour as fast as they could, without an alliance, they stood no chance because Sauromantia already had made that alliance and that it's own individual power was not only stronger than their own, but growing faster than their own as well.

By setting this precedent, by attacking that soon in plain sight, Claire has scored that diplomatic victory at the cost of her future. Claire risked her lands in exchange of a chance of victory for all other nations in the world, including Claire's. Finally, by doing so, since Claire's lands are so far from the Sauromantia homeland, it helped spreading out the lizard armies and make them much more vulnerable. That's the reason why Claire provoked Sauromantia that much and it worked really well.

Now, Claire hopes that the last of the remaining border nations around Sauromantia come to their senses and manage to make Sauromantia back into something manageable again instead of the juggernaut it currently is. That's about what is needed to put the oversized ambitions of Sauromantia in place : to strike into the vulnerable belly of the beast. Claire therefore needed to attack first, since a side attack could only happen after Sauromantia's armies were stretched

To put the plan into simpler words : to kill a beast, you need to make it vulnerable, to anger him so it reacts with feelings instead of with a cool head, and then finish it when it's vulnerable with a spear in its belly, and that the hide of the beast is strong enough to repulse the attackers.

Claire believe that plan was good, and so far it worked rather well. The only problem is that the baits (myself and Ryleh) are falling too fast, soon needing Lanka's help) and that the spear didn't hurt enough, and hopes the only reason is that it is because some of the spearwielders didn't even move yet, and that it is not due to the tactical strength of Sauromantia overwhelming.

Otherwise, the world is doomed to be under Sauromantia's rule.

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

That's a nice way of saying you panicked and bleated for help from nations with their own problems as your culture was destroyed. You got greedy, and launched an invasion on the rich nation that had earned their place, and you failed. You have been counterinvaded. Deal with it.

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

Not simply Claire, but many nations. And many more may soon aid them. R'lyeh has knowledge from Marverni itself that their god knows that his time is soon ended, and where then will C'tis's Sauromancers look? Not at Abysia, for by then Sauromatia will have swallowed it. Not at Lanka, for the demons are powerful still. Not at R'lyeh, for the Aboleths have repulsed all attacks into their sea, though we may be powerless on land. No, Frannabelle--C'tis will look towards Sauromatia. Perhaps not with eyes for war, but it will look nonetheless.

And we doubt C'tis will ally with Sauromatia, with Sauromatia's enemies so near.

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

Our enemies lie in tatters except for Caelum, who is soon to be devoured by T'ien Ch'i.

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

Then T'ien Ch'i is definitely allied with Sauromatia? Yoth'Shothogg thinks that is a bad idea, in more ways than simply the matter of how Sauromatia will ruin T'ien Ch'i if Sauromatia wins, and T'ien Ch'i will be ruined if Sauromatia loses, for siding with such an enemy.

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

I'd hold such claims until the leader of T'ien Ch'i speaks for himself. In any event T'ien C'hi's coming decision to do something or do nothing will have a great impact on this game and I for one am awaiting it with great curiosity.

However, I must say if what Sauromatia says is true, I think T'ien Ch'i will find the task of "devouring" Caelum to be a lot easily said than done. Just like Sauromatia did.

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

Sauromatia currently holds three seats of power, and needs seven to win. He is currently poised to defeat R'lyeh, Lanka, and Abysia, counting six. A T'ien Ch'inese attack on Caelum would be the worst possible idea, as a partition of Caelum would almost certainly hand the Caelian capital -- and the world -- to Sauromatia. Sauromatia clearly knows this: look how eagerly he is talking about that prospective T'ien Ch'inese attack.

Anyway, I am glad to see Caelum deal grievous losses to the Sauromatians. It is increasingly clear to me now that Stravinsky's Mercy was the best decision I had made.

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

To Shigure:
Yes, precisely - he will win without needing to fight Tien Chi. Unless Tien Chi has a plan how to steal from him most capitals quickly enough, that is. But I don't think such can work - certainly not in Calum's case for their flyers can hold besieging forces for very long & I suppose that Saur's know how to guard their citadels.
About your peace with Caelum - I don't think so. You, as I remember, also caused goodly losses to Sauromatia before your fall - and you could cause more if you had Caelum's resources for yourself by the time. It may have been otherwise if they had actually helped you when you were attacked, but such didn't occur.
To Claire:
I can't state loss of your avatar as a mistake - unless it was by mistakenly attacking too strong enemy, that is. In any case, it was tactical, not strategic mistake. I understand your reasoning about alliances & I've already said that negotiations could take too long also. I still think that coordinated actions would have more chances of downing the said beast.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
To Renojustin:
One might think that you could by now end your demagogy.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif By now all could see that your reasonings are false & you calling names doesn't help any. Also, your resources already do allow you to drop any pretense and still win by brute force. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i
 

What's with server? Does anybody know?

Servers are down :(
 

Sorry, the server is down. See here: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...?Number=610156

Re: Servers are down :(
 

Thanks for replying so quick.

Re: Servers are down :(
 

Maybe. It's too late now anyway.

The mistake was attacking on turn one, without knowledge of surroundings, and low dominion. That also gave Claire (contrary to what Sauromantia wrote earlier) the first of her affliction : a chest wound. Basically the worst affliction (except maybe a 20% reduction in hp) that she could get, +5 enc means that she cannot be used to beat up large armies anymore, only small ones.


Claire's reasons have nothing to do with greed, nor panicking. Claire thought about about clearing a path to the pPantokrator's seat, by choosing the solution that seems to yield the best result while adapting Claire's strategy to the situation.

Claire doesn't understand what defeat or losing means. By doing both of those, you learn, and that by itself is a victory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif If you understand that, maybe you will know Claire a little better.

Finally, Claire laughed when Claire made a minor modification to your message, and Malphas proposed to place this modified text in every town in our lands

"That's a nice way of saying Sauromatia's leader panicked and bleated for help from nations with their own problems as Sauromantia's culture was destroyed. You got greedy, and launched an invasion on the rich nation that had earned their place, and Sauromantia failed. Sauromantia have been counterinvaded. Deal with it."

Claire has told the world and Abyssian that Claire will do whatever is in her power to make it true.

Re: Servers are down :(
 

I guess Ich's game servers are still down?

Re: Servers are down :(
 

yup yup

Re: Servers are down :(
 

Boy I sure do miss this game a lot and hope we get it running again soon!

Continue?
 

The server is back up. Since it's about one month and a half after it went down, I'll ask very cautiously if people want to continue playing this game or if you have already moved on?

In case there aren't too many people who have abandoned this game by now, I'll restart it over the weekend.

Re: Continue?
 

I'm in two other games at the moment because I had to get my Dominions fix... leading in the one with graphs, and the other is only turn 3. So I really am not that sure if I could even devote the time to the game that would be necessary now.

Offhand, I'd say probably everyone has moved on in a big way by now, unfortunately, but I'll always remember this game as being my first, and an extremely exciting and intricate one at that!

Geez at one point I think I was fighting 5 people and still winning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Continue?
 

Yeah, I think it's safe to say Reno won. Plus, I, too, am in two games (one of which is 60+ nation warfest). I doubt I can carry on three games at once. So yeah, I vote this game just be laid to rest.

Re: Continue?
 

Agree that Renojustin should be considered a winner here. And I'm also in two other games by now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: Continue?
 

I didn't really consider myself the winner at that point, speaking for myself, but the next turn would have seen the fall of a couple of Caelum Eagle Kings... oh well. I guess if anyone actually deserved it, lol.

Man, that was a GREAT game.

Re: Continue?
 

Heh, this was a fun game. It's unfortunate the server issue came up just when things started to really roll. Like other players, I have long since moved onto other games and can't really even remember what my exact plans were for this game.

Regarding the winner, I don't think this game was over yet. Sauro was the leader, no doubt about that, but the amazon people were still far away from the target capitol count iirc and at least Caelum would have required fair amount of punishment before yielding and I think Tien Chi would also had plenty of word to say regarding the outcome.

Renojustin: I'm curious, what makes you so sure you would have managed to kill some of my precious bird royalty next turn? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Continue?
 

I had 3 seeking arrows on the one in Kailasa, killing him and retaking the province, and many scattered witch king thugs about to drain life on probably at least two more, which they would have fallen to. Your cyclops was horror marked 5-6 times, and T'ien C'hi had agreed to race us to the victory points from first meeting, which is why they were #2 in the game and not our first victim. They were about to hit you too.

But that was just Caelum. We were doing very well against Abysia and R'lyeh too, Abysia especially would have been pretty much squeezed out within the next few turns, and I don't think Lanka stood against us well either; we had thugs down there and he had nothing but normal demon troops with a weak vampire queen bless. We were also casting Fog Warriors with independent mages among other things.

We fought 6 nations and did well against all of them, completely wiping two out, and we were quite close against two more. Our income was over 5000 gp per turn for most of the game, and we had the 2nd strongest nation as an ally, one that was about to help us destroy our strongest competitor, Caelum. Our blood was starting to ramp up at an extremely fast rate, and overall, it was probably just a matter of time... probably.

I really wish that game had gone on, because in another turn, three of your Eagle Kings were going to die, taking the wind out of your sails, so to speak. I didn't expect to get the win because the game crashed, but looking back at it with some experience, if we picked the game up now there would be pretty much no way that I could lose that game, knowing what I know now.

Ascendant was sooo fun, and I want to just thank everyone for such an awesome and special experience for what was for most of us our first time playing! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Continue?
 

Sounds like a conclusion. I could make the game files available if somebody is interested to play this out locally.

Re: Continue?
 

To Renojustin:
So I was correct to estimate that Tien Chi was your ally from the beginning... It's surely comforting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif And as I've already said before, you were winning against him - as I've seen, he didn't have anything which would allow him to take VPs from you (he didn't look like having enough research to teleport something heavy enough at them, and in any case this could be stopped by Domes), and when he would attack Caelum, he would just allow you to take that VP faster. And with beating Abyssia & R'lyeh you would have enough iirc.
To Ich:
I at least am interested in them. Though they surely would take time to see through.

Re: Ascendant - Game On!
 

Lol, renojustin, you should really stop making clueless assumption about how the game would go in the next turns... No game is decided just like this. You've been declaring me dead for turns and in the last turns I regained territories, destroyed part of your armies and took my capital back...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Not that it matters now, I can't go on due to not having enough time to play anyway (I dropped out of my other games too...).

Re: Ascendant - Game On!
 

It's cute that you think that Kas, but, no, I had you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif