Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Dev log says, that CoE3 has became version 3.00. Does this mean, that the game will be released sooner or am I just getting too excited?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

True enough. But Pros and Cons.
The range on Dom3 allowed for far more variation. But it also led to the continual complaints of imbalance and incessant modding to "fix" the "massively broken" game by tweaking things 1 point up and down. The game would never have a chance to seem to satisfy most of the players.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Good catch.
But that note really means that 3.00 has been released to the beta testers.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Exactly. And once we've given it a spin to verify there aren't any showstoppers in there, Illwinter will start the process of getting it available through Desura.

The release date is still scheduled for 20th, but if it does come out earlier, the progress page is the place to watch.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

So a relase a few days early is still possible ? Good to know, thanks for the information.

My F5 key however does not thank you and will probably die soon and need to be raised. ;)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Take your time! I'd much rather wait a quantum (week? month?) than be plagued with things-to-be-fixed

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Agreed. Better wait a bit longer than getting buggy product earlier, even though I'm feeling like a kid at Christmas eve. :p


To the beta testers:
Are there units that are affected by season(s), like in Dom3 (like extra strong in winter)? Especially when the seasons are much bigger part of CoE3?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

So far none that I have seen and one would expect the Winter Wolf to be stronger in winter.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I just noticed on Desura that the release got bumped from the 20th to the 19th.

SQUEEEEEE!!! :happy:

Is there going to be an official forum?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No final word yet, but presumably the Desura forum.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The game is still listed as available on the 20th for me.

Where did you see the date changed to the 19th ?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The game will be available in 5 days.
Says my Desura client app.

I'd like to ask about the Druid (as I'm in the middle of a fun CoE2 game w/ it). Will it have an upgrade self spell?
I mean, he's gr8 at assembling armies but boy is he fragile.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

He's not as fragile in CoE23 as he was in CoE2. I'd still be careful with him, though. and yes, he has an upgrade spell, but requires an ancient forest to do it.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Over to the right where it says Releases, then below that, Conquest of Elysium it says "Available to play Feb 19, 2012"

Does it take into account differences in time zones?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I still see "Available to play Feb 20, 2012." on desura.com, with the time counter at 128:02:34

Good catch about the time zone, it's probably the source of the different dates.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Guys,

Does this mean the game will not be available from Shrapnel? I don't understand Desura. Is it anything like Steam?

Best wishes,
Steve

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Now that the game is nearing release, can someone tell me if I'll need N copies of the game to do a N computer LAN party? Can you have say 2 computers with 2 people hotseating at each to have a 4 player game?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Why not just have all 4 people on 1 computer?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Four people on one computer makes for a very crowded, frustrating ame very fast when you're switching chairs every 30 seconds.

Two copies with two people per computer each is quite doable. You just need to select two players as human from the game setup on both machines (the "Me" setting) and then divide them up as you please.

One computer will be running two instances of CoE3 (one instance of server, the other as client).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

So multiplayer games are hampered by the fact that two solid objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time... we are going to need a bug fix for that as soon as possible.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Just reading the mechanics of playing the dwarf queen here.

Hilarious and sounds fun to play :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The dwarves are fun, yes, but only if you find mines that are conquerable. If the nearest mine is 15 turns march away (extremely unlikely but possible), it's going to be a slow game and probable defeat.

Or if the nearest mine gives you a scouting report to the tune of "Iron Mine. There are 32 units here, 17 Dwarves and 15 Dwarf Warriors", you can forget about it right then and there...

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes, Tom Chick has some very good and exceptionally positive write-ups of CoE3 over at Quarter-two-Three. Looks great!

That sounds very unfortunate. Exactly the kind of contingency-dependence I would have liked to see avoided. Do you feel that this is something that people (whatever that means: The majority of beta-testers, or JK and KO) feel need and will be "fixed"?

Another question: Does the AI do well with teaming? That is, will the AI recognize common goals and try to help its teammates reasonably?
Thank you

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Dom3 made choices favoring multiplay which damaged solo play.
CoE3 tends to make choices favoring solo play over multiplay.
However there are map commands which can be used to create a better MP environment. I suspect some of those would be done fairly soon after release

The AI does well on teaming. Altho it is best to select nations which do not have the same resource requirements or they can get grabby.
(but that can be true with human players also) :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

It is not common for something like this to happen. Few times out of several hundred games. One just tends to remember them. It's not exactly as if the larger maps would be resource poor, the problem can often be that the closest resources are too heavily defended to take early on and you need to look a bit farther away.

The game I remember best was a Druid/Dwarf alliance I played hotseat with Kaljamaha (I had the dwarves). I started off with four mines within three turns of my starting location, all but one lightly defended, so it was easy to expand and solidify until I had a tough core to lean on. Just as well, since I was located right in the middle of the map and right after I had managed to establish those mines as colonies, I started getting invaded by one player after another after another.

Kaljamaha on the other hand started out in the southeast corner of the map. One battlefield and two mines close, then nothing for miles around. Being a Druid, he needed an ancient forest. The nearest one was 10 turns of travel away if you knew the shortest route. All the rest of it was forest interspersed with mountains, which actually allowed him to field massive armies of animals and a gigantic herb income.

By the time he did get that ancient forest, all he had to do was upgrade the main hero and start summoning legendary monsters like the world was going to end tomorrow. After that, all he had to do was roll over the map like an unstoppable tidal wave, but then a version change ruined the savegame. Didn't matter, as there was just one player left anyway, all the others had either been killed attacking me or eliminated each other.

Kaljamaha's starting location though, it would have been instant game over for anyone but Druid, Witch or Troll King due to lack of resources. For each of those three classes, it would have been a good one, especially the witch.

You can't prevent those things happening sometimes, because they are rather on the extreme end of the scale. It's the price we have to pay for everything else working well.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thank you much, that sounds fair enough. Gandalf's praise of the AI is encouraging to me, I hope it does not dissapoint, as I have a serious single-player TBS itch that needs scratching (LOVE me my Dom3 though for MP itch!).

Am I correct in assuming that there are copious settings one can generously adjust during game setup to define (with modding) an individual game's inherent abundance or paucity of resources, magic sites, and other "stuff"?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Only choosing the Society (or Era) does that.
But there are map commands which do. One in particular addfancyterrain sprinkles the specials. Using that command multiple times on the same map make it do more

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The AI for Dom3 was one AI trying to cover all of the unique nations. But CoE3 has many separate AIs. Each nation thinks along its own needs and unique abilities. And even the different independents have different AIs so the wandering animals act different than the wandering bandits which act different than the wandering merchant event. Their actual goals and attack choices are different

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thank you for this reply. I am not sure what map commands are -- by this do you mean modding a new map to play?
I am surprised that one cannot choose "site frequency" or "resource frequency" in game setup. Would that have been difficult to implement?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

From what I understand, at worst you should be able to make and use user created maps, so when playing in a competitive settings it should be possible to use special pre-defined maps created for this usage, or maybe use a semi-random map generator that would create maps with a balanced amount of each special terrains/features for all classes.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

We need to make a clear distinction between map and mod commands. Modding dopes not exist at this point. Modding is defined as alterations to the game itself (new units, altered units, new classes, altered classes etc) and it just isn't there now.

A map editor does exist and is in the game.

The map editor allows making user created maps. Advanced map commands allow the scripting of events that happen when that map is played, whether on timer or if special conditions are fulfilled.

The difference between map commands and modding commands for CoE3 would be the same as it is for Dominions 3.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

While I'm thinking of it....

Reading this on 1/4 2 3, I agree about hoping end game scoring gets worked in and also something more that just a "You win!" screen.

I remember playing beat-em-ups like Tekken or Killer Instinct and they were great because at the end you would watch a little story of what happens after winning. Some were serious, some light-hearted and some comical. I could really see the Troll-kings ending being similar to Mojukins from Tekken 3 :)

That could be a bit ambitious so how about something simple like a story? Or even the backstory to the class, kinda like a lesson on the mythos or fiction of the class. Just be sure to include a disclaimer for the Demonologists ending saying "don't try this at home, the in game demonologists are trained professionals".

And if you could link this in with the scoring then you could offer different endings depending on the level of score. A nice incentive to play all the classes.

It would probably be a bit of work so just something to think about.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'm pretty sure each class has a decription saying what they're all about already.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No, I mean the real world history/mythos/fiction behind the class. Eg, where do the idea of trolls actually come from? I'm sure we all have some idea but probably not as much of an idea as the game designers.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Since the one in charge of the thematic designs, descriptions, and artwork actually teaches religio/mythos for living..
yeah I would guess that is right :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Maybe they will add unit descriptions eventually since they are in Dominions 3. I can understand why they might not have wanted to focus on that from the beginning though.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

By the way, there is endgame scoring. And even midgame scoring.
I requested it as a feature so that host servers had something to work with. They can show scores, winners, graphs, even ladders if they want.

The switch is --gamelog=scores.txt and puts everyones numbers in on every turn.

It will work for local solo games also

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I just downloaded my preordered:angel copy form Desura, and printed out the manual. [commence rubbing hands together with glee:D]

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Sorry to ask a foolish question, but what is the consensus on where to discuss the game now that it is out? Is this thread considered appropriate? Since there are no other forums dedicated to it here, on desura?

(Trying to figure out how I can rename commanders, undo botched movement and recruiting, and use "trade", which doesnt seem to work for me)

Sorry and thanks in advance

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There is still some discussing (everywhere) on that point. I guess so far that Desura is supposed to be the official forum but Im still trying to like it.

There is a domain www.CoE-3.com but nothing there yet (any html volunteers?)
And there is a player-made forum coe3.ProBoards.com which is looking good.
A player-made IRC channel was started at irc.gamesurge.com channel #CoE3 and has had a few MP games already.

As to your other questions....
the command switch --rename will allow you to use the n key while viewing your commanders

the --autosave= will allow you to recover from botched orders and recruiting by creating a backup save after each "END turn"

A long right-click on a site will bring up the recruiting screen already set to be recruiting AT that site which really helps avoid botched recruiting

Trade only works if you have trade points to use. They show up in your treasury next to the tiny icon of a loaded cart. You get trade points from things like controlling a Port town (altho some nations such as Burgmeister starts with some right away)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thank you. Not understanding a couple of things, but maybe I will later.
The Desura forum does not seem suitable for decent discussion of this great game -- you cannot even see titles of threads!

What confuses me a bit is that after 5 hours of play, I have not seen a use for the differentiation between blunt, pierce, and slashing damage. Playing the Baron, I have yet to see any of mine own or opponent troops with any form of resistance or susceptibility vs. these. Odd, too, since it is such a great mechanic with great potential.

Similarly, as the Baron, I cannot see any difference between the Halbardiers and the Pikemen: both cost the same and have exactly the same stats, except that the halberd is superior to the pike, unless there is something hidden we cannot see. So what is the Pikeman's raison d'etre?

thank you much

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I agree, that the Desura forum is a bit too 'spartanic' for my tastes.
The player made forum coe3.proboards.com looks much better.
I'll probably post some questions there to support it a bit.

Or... couldn't we just rename the Shrapnel COE2 forum to COE3 and hope they don't see it?! :rolleyes:

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Note that the Desura comments section and the Desura forum are two entirely different things. The stuff on the main page is comments (much like YouTube comments), but there is a separate forum link there. That place is suitable, but a rather spartan.

The proboard version is a fairly good place, but the Desura forum is sort of the official default.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Squeletons-based units usually have pierce resist, and a few others units (often undeads, but I have not tested all classes yet) get it too when applicable.

From what I see currently, pierce seems to be the more common damage for basic recruited units (bows, spears, etc ...), but alos the one with the more resists out there.

I also found once a magic item giving blunt resist to the wielder.


I didn't test the Baron, but the pike probably has the "long" property, allowing it to strike from the second rank.

"But the pikemen are front rank, not middle !" you will say, but note that when there are too many units in a rank, they are aligned on several ranks. This means that if you get a large (>20 I think) number of pikemen, you could get all of them to strike, while only the first haldberd would be able too.

Ideally by playing on unit id (the element wich is used to order them), you could in theory have halberds in front and pikes after them to optimize their usage.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

They released a demo today, just FYI.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Question: is there a way for the baron to change where the annual levies spawn (for example, I had a start where I was stuck in the south, with a river forcing me to move through two cannibal village squares before I can get to plains, which makes levies a pain in the arse to move, while it would be infinitely more convenient for it to be raised in the city outside that damnable position).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Oh my goodness I wish there was an option to do that, but I'm afraid there isn't.

The baron is one of my favorite classes to play, but the problem you described is easily one of the biggest limits on his power. The only thing I could think of doing would be hoping to get a pyromancer so you could burn down the forests surrounding your starting castle, but I don't know if that effects cannibal villages (probably not), and I know it won't help if you're stuck behind mountains or swamps.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'm very dissapointed. The game has very good potential, I give it that. Commanders (mainly mages and big things, but still) feel more personal than in Dom 3 due to being so much more important and I kind of like the square based map with settlements and wilderness as opposed to Dom 3's every province being a settlement. It's also kind of nice to have very varying mechanics for each "nation".

But, first of all the controls are horrible. In Dominions 3 it's tolerable that we can't queue movement (so that it automatically provided nothing major happens nearby continues next turn) because apart from very late game it isn't that big of an issue as generally you don't have to spend that many turns moving, and even if you do there aren't that many commanders. In CoE3 you have to be moving things all the time and it's very frustrating to move things 10 squares by clicking at the map every time for 10 turns in a row. Turns are so much shorter. There are also minor gripes with the UI, but in general that's the major thing bugging me.

Secondly there's far too much pointless micromanagement. You can only hire troops from those big settlements so it's a lot of micromanagement if you wish to garrison your mines and villages so that some random snake won't take over a big city alone. Alternatively you can hunt down things, but it's even more micromanagement with coms. I don't have anything against micromanagement when I feel it has interesting effects, but here it's just frustrating.

Gameplaywise the game starts fairly slow since (depending on the "nation") you might not be able to do much at all to anything near you. Especially some of the "nations" have a HUGE luck factor in with what they start near to. For some it's a lesser issue though.

I would've wished the combat to have more tactical choices as opposed to "choose list of what spells my mages can cast if they feel like it". Dominions 3 style scriptable combat would've suited this game equally well with some modifications due to smaller numbers of units in general. That said I would've wished the whole game to have somewhat more tactical and strategic choices.

In general I have to sadly say that this was pretty much a waste for my money. Illwinter, however, can fix a lot of this with patches if they wish to. Given good tools to help with the annoying micromanagement of defending your settlements from snakes and bears this might be a somewhat enjoyable game. Oh, and anyway, I've gotten enough enjoyment from Dominions 3 to not mind this being a waste of money.