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-   -   AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=8703)

Fyron September 4th, 2003 06:40 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
Actually, YOUR Formations file is used in AIC if I am not mistaken and it is great. And you are right, as long as the AI has its Formation supplied within http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is what USM is there for. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Quote:

Regarding DefaultStrategies files the AI in AIC require it own logic for Fighter Attack, Optimal Firing Range and Maximum Weapons Range to a lesser degree others. This is mainly for the Tactical Fighters Priorities and Satellites being shot at by AI ships that pack primarily only missiles and other miscellaneous AI reasons in AIC…
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good to know. Perhaps you should put together a help file detailing all the special considerations to help people that like making their own strategies?

Quote:

FQM Standard and Deluxe I am licking my chops for this to be ADDED on AIC with your Images, your anomalies, this is outstanding work and I would like to put a few PURE FQM Quadrants in for the Players choose, from the Quadrant menu when starting a new game asap,
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have no objections, as long as credit is given. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Quote:

I receive at least 2 to 3 E-mails a month to get this in with QBrigid being your biggest fan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heheh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Grand Lord Vito September 4th, 2003 03:14 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
I never had a patience to play Non-connected game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
What is a reasonable game/race set up to have a warp point opener ASAP ? I still want to have normal tech. cost, 1 medium HW and 2K race though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg our Temporals have the edge here and cluster maps are the best because most of the time you get your own Galaxy of about 8 to 12 Systems.
But you never know what may be lurking in the other cluster so BE PREPARED. I do not open warp points over my Home World. If you do then have at least 1000 to 1500 infantry and a bunch of weapons platforms and Sats. Because if you open the Warp and that should be any AI inner core system YOU CAN COUNT ON LOOSING YOUR HOME WORLD when this happened to me I was unable to recapture it back. Game over I lost.

I like playing Low Bonus in all games but not connected, the AI especially the Science, Engineering and Merchant Races that get Stellar about or sooner then me and then it becomes very interesting on keeping things in check,. This would be up to you if you want a relaxing game if so definitely go with NO AI bonus. Other wise the AI does get dang right rude, I noticed that you and I like to curse at the monitor so pucker up I did when I played the AI with a Low bonus in a no warp game.

[ September 04, 2003, 14:16: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

oleg September 4th, 2003 04:49 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Thanks all for advise ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But should I first research other colonization techs and build up my colonies or go strait away to warp opener ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

PvK September 4th, 2003 07:20 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
FQM Standard and Deluxe I am licking my chops for this to be ADDED on AIC with your Images, your anomalies, this is outstanding work and I would like to put a few PURE FQM Quadrants in for the Players choose, from the Quadrant menu when starting a new game asap, I receive at least 2 to 3 E-mails a month to get this in with QBrigid being your biggest fan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [/QB]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm. The FQM I've seen tends to create vast quantities of asteroid fields, which the AI can't mine. Something to consider...

In the PBW game Adamant 0006, for instance, FQM is combined with Proportions mod, with the result that human players get practically infinite resources as long as they can build and maintain remote mining bases. The result is enormous fleets, and players complaining about what a chore it is to enter orders for each turn. AI bonus is High, but without remote mining, they are dwarfed.

In the Version of FQM used for that game, even the humans have a hard time navigating some of the systems with all the damaging sector types. I imagine the AI would tend to get rather stuck in them.

PvK

[ September 04, 2003, 18:27: Message edited by: PvK ]

Fyron September 4th, 2003 08:42 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Adamant 006 uses a really old Version of FQM. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Newer Versions have much fewer damaging WPs, which are replaced by those with other random abilities (which present no navigation hazards). Of course, there are still just as many asteroids, but that can be taken care of. Dropping asteroid values down a bunch would eliminate the remote mining bonus to the human player(s), as would eliminating most asteroids.

[ September 04, 2003, 19:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS September 4th, 2003 10:14 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
Thanks all for advise ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But should I first research other colonization techs and build up my colonies or go strait away to warp opener ?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg I strongly recommend you play with Neutrals included, start with Rock as a suggestion and you are most likely to start with more planets in your Solitary no warp Home System… Consider OFFER TRADE for the other Colonization TECHS as you would in any game with the AI, if you are in a TR with them; they may trade for as little as 20kt of any resource even a Comm. Link or in regards to Neutrals trade your Colonizer tech; even better if it is no use to them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Research Stellar Manipulation ASAP but also research some weapons, fighters and at least Frigates if not Destroyer to PRE defend that NEW warp hole. Mines may be of some value, since it should be around the Sixth to fourteenth year you open your first warp (Depending how Defensive, Offensive or Infrastructure investments in the style of play you may be... If playing a Cluster style Map chances are you having the entire cluster to your self so you should not have to over do defense too much.

GLV is correct; it is best not to open early WARPS over your HW as it may facilitate the AIs invasion. Consider a scrub planet with a few Military Barracks for the cargo space, then pack on the defenses and Open your Warps there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

With a Large and to some degree a Medium Cluster Style Map, you should be able to open most if not ALL Systems in your Cluster from Stellar Manipulation (1) certainly SM 2.
However, you will need SM 3 to get to the next Cluster and this is really when you have to be prepared, after all it may be your best friend the evil HIVE in the next Cluster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

NOTE AI will have Inter Cluster Warp on average; in a AI no Bonus game (AFAIR):

Science and Engineering races about 8 to 16 Years.
Merchant Races about 15 to 20 Years.
Other Races depend on their Demeanor, the more violant the race the latter it will warp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Some Race are lethargic by nature and may warp when they feel like it (Abbidon for one)
Xenophobic and Neutrals do not open warps at all.

The AI is set up to Warp its Home Cluster First and then it will warp to other surrounding clusters much Later, except the Eee and some Engineering race that MAY just Bump the Stellar Techs back to back and warp out of there Home Clusters early and that may open your game right up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

In addition, those serine Engineering races we like to pick on in the Standard games, you just may notice the MR HIDE in them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif in a NO-WARP GAME, so be on your guard.

Also please note for Xenos; though more in the way of Infrastructure. However, the Violent races, these races prefer Big Weapons and Hugh Attack Ships over the fancy Science Stellar stuff, so you just may open warps to Pandora’s Box all the way back to your Home System http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif no borg out there but there sure is other races just as mean.
Therefore, when going to a new Cluster you may consider having a pre Warp Hole Defensive Base Built to at least attempt to block the AI from rushing your rear Colonies with there fuel thirsty fleets. 100 mix of level I Sat- missiles and Level two Sats with good beam weapons along with great sensors and a few Pure PD sats, with this and a Carrier Fleet ready and reposition able; before entering each System in that new Cluster.

===

So when QBrigid and GLV say the AI gets Frisky if not darn out and out rude; with a low AI bonus game as opposed to NONE, this is why (((TIME))) you will have little to prepair in a low bonus game and priorities will get confused. So it is recommended all play there first few NO-WARP games with the default of NONE for AI Bonus.

[ September 04, 2003, 22:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak September 5th, 2003 12:18 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
[QB] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Longterm observations about 1.5 (realtime) years ago:

- galactic peace within the first 2 years, means no events from 2400.0 until 2401.9, never.
- the master planet is NEVER affected by high and catastrophic events, just by low and medium events
Definition "master planet": The planet that is selected at game start, first cursor, means in a one homeplanet game this would be the homeplanet. In a 10 planets game, the master planet would be immune from high/catastrophic events, the other 9 could be affected, this goes along also with system events, like star explosions.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
With multiple HW starts yes, but there was always one planet (master) never affected by high/catastrophic events. I checked this with a modded event.txt, just the 4 severities with a text popup for the severity which has taken place. Some thousand turns later, almost everything but the master HP has blown up.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg, what are your thoughts on this, I believe PTF is on the mark here, I do not recall ever having an event; even Plague for example let alone a High or catastrophic event on a Home World with default one Planet se4 gold start.

This information is needed and is important, in other words should we worry about the Home World,for its Population and Facilities when and if we re-categorize the levels of any Events.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, I have seen this before your mail, but ... I am not sure any more, since Fyron obviously has seen high/catastrophic events on HPs.
This is what I recall:
PvK's proportions had a cultural trait "cursed" which should increase the chance for bad events. I performed some tests with this, and we observed that any minus or plus in the cultural settings about events have been effectles. The same has been done for the faith shrine and different good/bad settings - it was absolutely effectless. PvK has communicated the test results with Aaron, and a few weeks later we got a bugfix (which I can not find in the history at the moment, somewhen about gold patch 1 or 2). The findings on top have been side results of the tests, but it could be most likely that Aaron has changed more than just the event chance bug. So I think this should be tested again.
I have used a modded event file without real effects, just the severity popped up in the news window, so I was able to do my stats for every event severity. It could be possible that "events without real effects" also have a different behaviour than usual events, so it will not be an easy task which can be performed in a couple of minutes.

oleg September 5th, 2003 12:43 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
I certainly remember that Fate Shrine' reduction of events chance has been asserted to be fixed in 1.84. It would also fix lucky/cursed trait, I think.

I can also confirm HW rebellion can happen - i observed it few times. Thanks God, to AI, not me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . I also saw HW system destruction. But indeed, i never saw HW plague or planet destruction yet.

JLS September 5th, 2003 01:23 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
Hmm. The FQM I've seen tends to create vast quantities of asteroid fields, which the AI can't mine. Something to consider...

In the PBW game Adamant 0006, for instance, FQM is combined with Proportions mod, with the result that human players get practically infinite resources as long as they can build and maintain remote mining bases. The result is enormous fleets, and players complaining about what a chore it is to enter orders for each turn. AI bonus is High, but without remote mining, they are dwarfed.

In the Version of FQM used for that game, even the humans have a hard time navigating some of the systems with all the damaging sector types. I imagine the AI would tend to get rather stuck in them.

PvK
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Pete, you are absolutely right. As it applies as a global overwrite, to the AI in AIC primarily.

Perhaps if we use a few of Fyron’s favorite quad setups from FQM

Modifie AIC SystemTypes, QuadrantTypes, StellarAbilityTypes, however not to change other then a few DATA files with no settings.file changes at all, it should be a easy port.

We can just tie this all into AI Campaigns {new game/Quadrant/Options menu}selection as we did with your unbelievably extraordinary Proportions maps for example:

Semi-Standard (my all time favorite)
RICH CLUSTERS
RICH SPIRAL ARM
Atypical Sidereal
Tri-Polar-wide
Ancient Bi-Polar

==============================

Example of probable FQM placement:

“~”
“~”
Atypical Sidereal
Tri-Polar-wide
FQM Standard Paradise
FQM Balanced Quadrant

>>> Below Ancient and FQM maps may be a little unfriendly for the AI. (in menu note)
Ancient
Ancient Bi-Polar
FQM Dense Mid-Life
FQM Star Heavy
FQM Asteroid fest
==============================
We can do this with Atrocities ST ship sets and only basic Star Trek stuff and with no (AST mod STUFF with out Atrocities individual say so).

The MOUNT ADD on - in conjunction with Proportion/AIC existing data will be tricky but in the end, this can be done as well. (good winter project)

Similar to the Strategic Fighter Module Add-on we did for AIC now…
All Add-ons will be included for AIC also menu driven (one menu or another that is) from with in AIC and the Players will never have to worry about overwrites. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Expect me to be knocking on your doors for some help with all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif this

[ September 05, 2003, 14:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 5th, 2003 02:17 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
Oleg, what are your thoughts on this, I believe PTF is on the mark here, I do not recall ever having an event; even Plague for example let alone a High or catastrophic event on a Home World with default one Planet se4 gold start.

This information is needed and is important, in other words should we worry about the Home World,for its Population and Facilities when and if we re-categorize the levels of any Events.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

JLS, I have seen this before your mail, but ... I am not sure any more, since Fyron obviously has seen high/catastrophic events on HPs.
This is what I recall:
PvK's proportions had a cultural trait "cursed" which should increase the chance for bad events. I performed some tests with this, and we observed that any minus or plus in the cultural settings about events have been effectles. The same has been done for the faith shrine and different good/bad settings - it was absolutely effectless. PvK has communicated the test results with Aaron, and a few weeks later we got a bugfix (which I can not find in the history at the moment, somewhen about gold patch 1 or 2). The findings on top have been side results of the tests, but it could be most likely that Aaron has changed more than just the event chance bug. So I think this should be tested again.
I have used a modded event file without real effects, just the severity popped up in the news window, so I was able to do my stats for every event severity. It could be possible that "events without real effects" also have a different behaviour than usual events, so it will not be an easy task which can be performed in a couple of minutes.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
I certainly remember that Fate Shrine' reduction of events chance has been asserted to be fixed in 1.84. It would also fix lucky/cursed trait, I think.

I can also confirm HW rebellion can happen - i observed it few times. Thanks God, to AI, not me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . I also saw HW system destruction. But indeed, i never saw HW plague or planet destruction yet.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What I can say, it is understood from the players that with the average New game set up and with the past applicable events that the Home World for the Human Players is rarely scalded by a random event.

And that most - if not all Players, like the event occurrences as is. Regardless of a rare, if maybe possible and drastic event; that could and may occur on their Human Player Home World, that most have not seen as of yet.

========
However, the AI may be another case, all together.

This is what I propose; we leave status quo on the Event Occurrences even tweak a few more in, thanks to Olegs fix.

I will see what I can do to tweak the AI, so it may shun some events.

[ September 05, 2003, 14:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 5th, 2003 02:42 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
PTF if practical, can you humor me and try the EVENTS test for the Homeworld one more time, with opposite play style and one Home World, basically as below.

Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
With multiple HW starts yes, but there was always one planet (master) never affected by high/catastrophic events. I checked this with a modded event.txt, just the 4 severities with a text popup for the severity which has taken place. Some thousand turns later, almost everything but the master HP has blown up.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In other words can you try this in Simultaneous mode one HW.

Then a test in standard move with one HW.

This is only to test that some players have seen HW events and other have NEVER seen any, yet the default Events, settings and facilities file is the same with all players (use of Default files is assumed)

GLV and I always play Simultaneous mode and do not recall ever seeing any Human Player HW event that’s a lot of hours of play, with no recall of an HW event, how about anybody else?

[ September 05, 2003, 16:23: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 5th, 2003 03:58 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Oleg and GLV, have you received the Template for AIC Events v4.00, that I Emailed you the other day?

Not with respect to a test, just your thoughts, I need to move forward with this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 05, 2003, 15:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg September 5th, 2003 04:37 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
No, I did not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

oleg September 5th, 2003 04:39 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
But I tried the one you posted in "max.severity" topic. I think it is the same, right ?

So far I had ~100 turns game. Events chance low, max.severity high and so far nothing happend to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS September 5th, 2003 04:42 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
But I tried the one you posted in "max.severity" topic. I think it is the same, right ?

So far I had ~100 turns game. Events chance low, max.severity high and so far nothing happend to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never corrected your released file 1062224182.txt in that thread.

Anyway the new AIC v4.b1 Events.txt file; reordered and with a few more events is posted their now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 05, 2003, 18:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 5th, 2003 04:53 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
This is the updated Events file for AIC.

If you wish to veiw >L-CLICK<

===

You may unzip this into your se4 Gold directory to update your AIC game.

EVENTS 4.1b just >L-CLICK< for download

This 41 kb Events file is in beta, GLV will test this in Simultaneous Mode; if anyone wishes to test this in Standard move mode, please let me know.

THANKS

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 05, 2003, 18:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

mottlee September 5th, 2003 08:33 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
JLS, The prob with the mine sweepers is back, Had teh Eee go into a 100 ct mine field cleared all 100 so I took there emp to look and no sweepers in the fleet, will send when I get back to it.
I may just restart another http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

QBrigid September 5th, 2003 09:41 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Before you restart your game, Mottlee.
The way I understand the AI in AIC, it does not need just mine sweepers to clear a minefield.

Early in the game the AI takes high losses to mines. As the game turns pass the AI will research larger ships, the larger the ship when it is combined in a fleet the easer it is for it to clear the minefields, CVs have a extra bonus in clearing mines as well in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 05, 2003, 20:54: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

QBrigid September 5th, 2003 09:47 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
Research Stellar Manipulation ASAP but also research some weapons and at least Frigates. Mines may be of some value, since it should be around the Sixth to fourteenth year you open your first warp (Depending how Defensive, Offensive or Infrastructure investments in the style of play you may be... If playing a Cluster style Map chances are you having the entire cluster to your self so you should not have to over do defense too much.
[/QB]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have opened my first warp, as early as 3.1 Years and with a bonus of NONE for the AI you really do not have to worry about the AI when you are warping inside your Home Cluster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 05, 2003, 20:50: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

QBrigid September 5th, 2003 09:47 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
JLS, I play Simu games as well, no bad events happened on my Howe World, with the old evnts file

[ September 05, 2003, 20:49: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

JLS September 5th, 2003 11:27 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
What QB posted is basically right on, in regards to AI Minesweeping.
In addition, with AI Campaign the larger the fleet, the less likely the AI will desire a minesweeper to be part of the composition for escort.

About, what turn where you in when the AI blew thru your Minefield. Do you recall the largest ships, was it made-up with any CVs and how large was the fleet?

Thanks for the input Mottlee, I will take a look at tweaking the AI Minesweeping for AIC v4.0

[ September 05, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

mottlee September 6th, 2003 12:51 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by QBrigid:
Before you restart your game, Mottlee.
The way I understand the AI in AIC, it does not need just mine sweepers to clear a minefield.

Early in the game the AI takes high losses to mines. As the game turns pass the AI will research larger ships, the larger the ship when it is combined in a fleet the easer it is for it to clear the minefields, CVs have a extra bonus in clearing mines as well in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">None of the ships have MS comp on them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif and there was no damage

Emailed game and plr files

[ September 05, 2003, 23:59: Message edited by: mottlee ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 01:15 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Thanks Mottlee, I will load it first thing in the mourning... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 06, 2003, 00:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 02:43 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
posted June 09, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI for new AIC players. Regarding Minefields

Yes, most AI Players will blow thru a 100 Minefield with a large fleet ….

About when the AI Player starts fleeting Light Cruisers especially Carriers, you can expect the AI to clear Minefields 100%, when fleeted with a CV and escorts vessels . Just like, you would expect a good and capable Human Player opponent would.

That is not to say, the AI will not make mistakes or loose many a good ship; Scouting, or a few Capital ships returning to or from a yard or refuel base (as a Human player may)

===

Please keep this in mind; the higher the Computer Bonus the faster the AI will fleet Cruisers and Carriers. When this happens the less effective your minefields will become.

============================
EDIT:

Expected AI Minesweeping resuts when fleeted for AIC: v4.00.

100+ Scouts (will blow thru a 100 Minefield)
46+ Escorts
46+ Frigates
DD 20
CL 10
CA 4+
BC 3
BB 2+
DN 2
BS 1
Hvy BS 1
---
CVL 2+
CV 1+
Hvy CV 1
======================
Basicly 10 AI Destroyers and 6 AI Light Cruisers will clear 100 mines without with out a minesweeper.

This will be about a 50% decrease on CL and below. and 20% to 33% decrease for Cruiser and above.
======================
Please note in AIC v4.0 > The Human Players will now have the ability to destroy mines with Fighter Carriers.
In addition, for all Human Players: Minefields will have NO effect on any BaseShip, Heavy BaseShip or Heavy Carrier class vessel.

Scaled to the respective ships displacements; Dreadnoughts, Battleships, and Battle Cruisers will require MORE mines to damage or destroy them.

Good work and thanks for your continued help with the mines in AIC >Mottlee. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ September 06, 2003, 12:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak September 6th, 2003 07:24 AM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
PTF if practical, can you humor me and try the EVENTS test for the Homeworld one more time, with opposite play style and one Home World, basically as below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
With multiple HW starts yes, but there was always one planet (master) never affected by high/catastrophic events. I checked this with a modded event.txt, just the 4 severities with a text popup for the severity which has taken place. Some thousand turns later, almost everything but the master HP has blown up.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In other words can you try this in Simultaneous mode one HW.

Then a test in standard move with one HW.

This is only to test that some players have seen HW events and other have NEVER seen any, yet the default Events, settings and facilities file is the same with all players (use of Default files is assumed)

GLV and I always play Simultaneous mode and do not recall ever seeing any Human Player HW event that?s a lot of hours of play, with no recall of an HW event, how about anybody else?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All right, I am going to set up a some hundred years batch sim with the 3.02 file today. Standart turn test would be very hard, because at least every single event stops the turn flow, and every single event has to be saved or noted. I think it should not make a difference, but let's see what happens in simultaneous first.

Quote:

I certainly remember that Fate Shrine' reduction of events chance has been asserted to be fixed in 1.84. It would also fix lucky/cursed trait, I think.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, my memory is lacking about that. So it obviously has taken some more weeks than I remember.

oleg September 6th, 2003 12:56 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
As a test, I started a game with myself and one neutral AI. Events chance high. I did' do anything except building few ships. Few years in the game, AI' HW rebelled - here is a save game:
1062845567.zip

I saw AI' HW rebelled many, many times. With old file _very_ often, with a new file only very rare. I never had my HW rebelled though.

It is certain SE treats humans and AI HW differently. The disparity in events is just too obvious.

JLS September 6th, 2003 02:33 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Oleg, what game mode style are you playing when you find the posted events?

Oleg, if you could play your next game, to include the Events v4.b1 and play in standard mode. This will be extremely helpful in comparing with the Event beta tests starting this weekend.

--------------------------------------
You may unzip this 41 kb Events file into your se4 Gold directory to update your AIC game.

EVENTS 4.1b just >L-CLICK< for download

====

I only ask that all default AIC files be used in conjunction with the Events v4.b1 for those who wish to contribute to this test.

Allthough the settings below will be changed with AIC v4.0 this is the v3.xx default all is going with.
Event Percent Chance Low := 10
Event Percent Chance Medium := 20
Event Percent Chance High := 40

So far, there are 5 tests.

4 in Simu mode and 1 in standard mod, they will attempt to log all events that are Directly or Indirectly effect the Human Player and to Highlight events that happen on there Homeworld or within there Home system…

In regards to the AI, I have the fix or (partial remedy) already and this will be out in AIC v4.0.
As not to influence the tests I will not release the details on the AI Events Fix.

[ September 06, 2003, 13:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

oleg September 6th, 2003 02:37 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
I am reluctant to invest into 300+ turn game with catastrophic events on - just too paranoid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But I had AI HW rebellions before in "normal" games with default files.

JLS September 6th, 2003 03:11 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
As a test, I started a game with myself and one neutral AI. Events chance high. I did' do anything except building few ships. Few years in the game, AI' HW rebelled
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
I am reluctant to invest into 300+ turn game with catastrophic events on - just too paranoid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But I had AI HW rebellions before in "normal" games with default files.]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg, I am unsure where you are going with this, or some of your text.

True I would be Paranoid if my Homeworld or any Human Players HW was lost but this was not the case or never has been. Is this not true – Oleg? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Is not the 4.b1 events file fine and working in the way it is intended; after all you did have the (((Events chance high)))?… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

With our files now in the order as you suggested, does not the Max Severity options work as you stated, this is our impression?

Also the one AI home world that had this rebellion. What was its over all demise, did it defect to another Race or did it just mello out in time? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Are you using all the default and unmodified files AIC?
Now if you had the events with DEFAULT settings to low or medium and a Human Player lost his Homeworld to a bang; then yes I will be overly concerned. But this has not happened has it, a matter of fact the Human Player in his game play along oblivious to ANY other players wows, most of the time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The key to the Random events is to insure the enjoyment of the Human Players, to overcome some evolving events. The AI feelings are irrelevant http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Events that may occur to the AI players HW and actually the eyes of most Players like to see bad things happen to there opponents, in a game. Would you not agree?

The way AI Campaigns Event File was always programed: Is that the odds for ANY Planet or a System to be destroyed in AIC is by far deminished as opposed to Stock se4, and this is good, would you not agree Oleg? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This AI in AIC is tough enough to get thru Events as it is and as it was… and again, it is rare that one event will affect the same AI repeatedly.
Actually, most Players say the AI in AIC is very tough overall.

Furthermore, with all the proposed AI Rebellion remedies, it may lesson the total of new Independent Races spawned that enhances Human Player game Play, and this will not be a good thing - Oleg, would it?

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 06, 2003, 18:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 04:30 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Oleg, it would be very helpful if you would answer some of the question the Players and I have been asking you, here and through out the few Last dozen or so Posts in this thread, that are with respect to your statements, when you can find the time.

Please be part of the solution http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Respectfully

John

[ September 06, 2003, 15:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

QBrigid September 6th, 2003 05:12 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
Furthermore, with all the proposed AI Rebellion remedies, it may lesson the total of new Independent Races spawned that enhances Human Player game Play, and this will not be a good thing - Oleg, would it?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, the AIC and Adamants original Events file is and allways was fine, in fact both great. It appears you occupied most of your vacation placating this events max severity thing, when your intention was to release v4.0 this week.

Lets not throw out the baby with the wash.
I say, release AIC 4.0 with the tried & true 3.02 Events File, and move on.

[ September 06, 2003, 16:30: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

mottlee September 6th, 2003 05:12 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
posted June 09, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI for new AIC players. Regarding Minefields

Yes, most AI Players will blow thru a 100 Minefield with a large fleet ….

About when the AI Player starts fleeting Light Cruisers especially Carriers, you can expect the AI to clear Minefields 100%, when fleeted with a CV and escorts vessels . Just like, you would expect a good and capable Human Player opponent would.

That is not to say, the AI will not make mistakes or loose many a good ship; Scouting, or a few Capital ships returning to or from a yard or refuel base (as a Human player may)

===

Please keep this in mind; the higher the Computer Bonus the faster the AI will fleet Cruisers and Carriers. When this happens the less effective your minefields will become.

============================
EDIT:

Expected AI Minesweeping resuts when fleeted for AIC: v4.00.

100+ Scouts (will blow thru a 100 Minefield)
46+ Escorts
46+ Frigates
DD 20
CL 10
CA 4+
BC 3
BB 2+
DN 2
BS 1
Hvy BS 1
---
CVL 2+
CV 1+
Hvy CV 1
======================
Basicly 10 AI Destroyers and 6 AI Light Cruisers will clear 100 mines without with out a minesweeper.

This will be about a 50% decrease on CL and below. and 20% to 33% decrease for Cruiser and above.
======================
Please note in AIC v4.0 > The Human Players will now have the ability to destroy mines with Fighter Carriers.
In addition, for all Human Players: Minefields will have NO effect on any BaseShip, Heavy BaseShip or Heavy Carrier class vessel.

Scaled to the respective ships displacements; Dreadnoughts, Battleships, and Battle Cruisers will require MORE mines to damage or destroy them.

Good work and thanks for your continued help with the mines in AIC >Mottlee. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK I understand that they can/will go through a mine field but not without taking some hits to some ships

QBrigid September 6th, 2003 05:15 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
Thanks for the file and your help with the mines, Mottlee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

----------------

As a result from Mottlees continued help with balancing AIC Minesweeping over the Last few months, there will now be a reductions in the AI minesweeping abilities totaled to be about 30% over all with significant reductions applying to the early and early-mid game.

Furthermore, Please note in AIC v4.0 > The Human Players will now have the ability to destroy mines with Fighter Carriers.
In addition, for all Human Players: Minefields will have NO effect on any BaseShip, Heavy BaseShip or Heavy Carrier class vessel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Scaled to the respective ships displacements; Dreadnoughts, Battleships, and Battle Cruisers will require MORE mines to damage or destroy Human Player Capital Ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nice job with the Minesweeping guys, I like it.

[ September 06, 2003, 16:16: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 06:18 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mottlee:
Expected AI Minesweeping resuts when fleeted for AIC: v4.00.

100+ Scouts (will blow thru a 100 Minefield)
46+ Escorts
46+ Frigates
DD 20
CL 10
CA 4+
BC 3
BB 2+
DN 2
BS 1
Hvy BS 1
---
CVL 2+
CV 1+
Hvy CV 1
=========================
OK I understand that they can/will go through a mine field but not without taking some hits to some ships
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly,
If the AI was to enter your 100 minefield with a feet of 99 scouts, as it may be with base se4(ALL 99 AI SHIPS MAY BE LOST) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
It would be true with 40 escorts or 40 frigates (ALL AI SHIPS WILL BE LOST)
The same would be true if the AI entered a 100 minefield with 15 destroyers (all destroyers will be lost)

Furthermore if the AI was to enter your 100 mine field with numbers closer to the above chart, for example a fleet of 17 or 18 destroyers many of the AI destroyer will be damaged or destroyed. However, some will get thru.

However, if fleet of 20 or 21 Destroyers was to enter a 100 minefield, then yes all will get thru with little to no damage. Picture it, as total armaments versus the mines if you will http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

-------------------------------------------------

The same applies to a mixed fleet of 8 Destroyers and 4 Light Cruisers, as it may be with base se4 (ALL SHIPS WILL BE DESTROYED) and this would include all TROOPS on any AI assault ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

If the AI enters a 100 minefield with a fleet of 10 destroyers and 4 Light Cruisers some may get thru but most will be damaged or destroyed and this would include most TROOPS on any AI assault ships

However an AI fleet of 12 destroyers and 5 Light Cruisers will get thru and will maintain the integrity of the troops and there assault ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
=================================================
In short and to recap:

1: Approximately any quantity or make up; at 70% or below the chart all (The AI ships will be lost forever) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
2: Approximately any quantity or make up above 70% but less then 100% of the chart (The AI will take damage and destruction, but some AI ships MAY get thru) depending on the proximity to charts 100%.
3: Any quantity or make up above 100% of the chart, the AI will clear the Minefield with little to no damage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif


This will also apply for Human Players to some extent with AIC 4.0 at previous post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

With AIC, the closer you reach Baseships and Heavy Carriers >mines are akin to throwing stones at today’s tanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 06, 2003, 18:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 07:03 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
There are several options to adding Minesweeper support for the Human Player.

~If possible add this to the Plate Armor by Consulting with PVK on the best way.
~Add it to other Components.
~And/Or as I did with the AI in the Balance Module.

What are your thoughts?

[ September 06, 2003, 18:30: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron September 6th, 2003 07:33 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

I certainly remember that Fate Shrine' reduction of events chance has been asserted to be fixed in 1.84. It would also fix lucky/cursed trait, I think.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am fairly certain that it does not work. I ran some tests and had the same number of events hit me with or without it. I even tried modding it to 100% reduction of event chances, but had 0 change. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

JLS September 6th, 2003 07:33 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by QBrigid:
JLS, the AIC and Adamants original Events file is and allways was fine, in fact both great. It appears you occupied most of your vacation placating this events max severity thing, when your intention was to release v4.0 this week.

Lets not throw out the baby with the wash.
I say, release AIC 4.0 with the tried & true 3.02 Events File, and move on.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point taken, and thanks QB

JLS September 6th, 2003 07:35 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I certainly remember that Fate Shrine' reduction of events chance has been asserted to be fixed in 1.84. It would also fix lucky/cursed trait, I think.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am fairly certain that it does not work. I ran some tests and had the same number of events hit me with or without it. I even tried modding it to 100% reduction of event chances, but had 0 change. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fyron I agree with you

PsychoTechFreak September 6th, 2003 07:38 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
I am reluctant to invest into 300+ turn game with catastrophic events on - just too paranoid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But I had AI HW rebellions before in "normal" games with default files.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg, if you use the event file of AIC (I guess so) search for the first entry of population rebel. It is a medium event. Now, this is really a kind of mess what I see with this event file. It will be hard to observe the severity of an event from the texts. It looks like I have to mod the event file again to be sure. Medium and Low severities I have seen for the homeworlds also, just no high/catastrophic ones like planet explosions usually are set to. Maybe the different observations of the community result from different severity moddings? But maybe there is a difference between human and AI, let's see. I hope the one human player that I have to set on complete AI on is still handled as a human. I changed the high event chance to 500...
And I guess I have to start again with a clean events.txt.

Fyron September 6th, 2003 07:40 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by QBrigid:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
Furthermore, with all the proposed AI Rebellion remedies, it may lesson the total of new Independent Races spawned that enhances Human Player game Play, and this will not be a good thing - Oleg, would it?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, the AIC and Adamants original Events file is and allways was fine, in fact both great. It appears you occupied most of your vacation placating this events max severity thing, when your intention was to release v4.0 this week.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At any rate, a reorganized events file is nicer to look through. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Reordering them can't have any bad effects, so why not just use the reordered file, as the work is already done?

PsychoTechFreak September 6th, 2003 07:49 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I certainly remember that Fate Shrine' reduction of events chance has been asserted to be fixed in 1.84. It would also fix lucky/cursed trait, I think.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am fairly certain that it does not work. I ran some tests and had the same number of events hit me with or without it. I even tried modding it to 100% reduction of event chances, but had 0 change. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fyron I agree with you</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fyron, JLS, one of the important things about this (Aaron has confirmed it). You can not test the event chance with one player because the events are distributed over the races. If you have got 100 events in a game with two players and both of them have no positive or neg. modifiers (like fake shrine) to event chances, then every one gets about 50. One player would get 100 even with lucky trait, because there is no other player who attrackts the other events. If one race has got lucky trait, the other is cursed, then the distribution would be different (I am not good in maths now) , e.g. 40/60 or whatever.

JLS September 6th, 2003 07:51 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by QBrigid:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
Furthermore, with all the proposed AI Rebellion remedies, it may lesson the total of new Independent Races spawned that enhances Human Player game Play, and this will not be a good thing - Oleg, would it?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, the AIC and Adamants original Events file is and allways was fine, in fact both great. It appears you occupied most of your vacation placating this events max severity thing, when your intention was to release v4.0 this week.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At any rate, a reorganized events file is nicer to look through. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Reordering them can't have any bad effects, so why not just use the reordered file, as the work is already done?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, and already done as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron September 6th, 2003 07:59 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Hmm... so I need a guinea pig...

JLS September 6th, 2003 08:02 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Fyron, JLS, one of the important things about this (Aaron has confirmed it). You can not test the event chance with one player because the events are distributed over the races. If you have got 100 events in a game with two players and both of them have no positive or neg. modifiers (like fake shrine) to event chances, then every one gets about 50. One player would get 100 even with lucky trait, because there is no other player who attrackts the other events. If one race has got lucky trait, the other is cursed, then the distribution would be different (I am not good in maths now) , e.g. 40/60 or whatever.[/QB]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks PTF, I beleive I understand what you are presenting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

----
This may be of the wall PTF, but will the Event engine see this as teams.

Human team and AI team...

For example if there was 2 Human Players, hence=50/50 and 5 AI players hence 20% over each AI.

Please further clarify: 1 Human 5 AI players, how would the calculations be in your opinion. Please to not equate Lucky and /or Cursed.
.

PsychoTechFreak September 6th, 2003 08:11 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:


Please further clarify: 1 Human 5 AI players, how would the calculations be in your opinion. Please to not equate Lucky and /or Cursed.
.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, I am sorry, could you repeat that Last sentence in other words, please?

The events are distributed equally if no race has any modifier. There should be no difference between human and AI.

Do you think of a simulation without event chance modifiers for all of the races? That means, I would have to use non-religious races and I would have to remove any cultural traits about event chance modifiers.

[ September 06, 2003, 19:13: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 08:13 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Oleg, if you use the event file of AIC (I guess so) search for the first entry of population rebel. It is a medium event.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PTF, the way I understood Oleg he is using (HIS other Event file and with HIGH Chance)

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
But I tried the one you posted in "max.severity" topic. I think it is the same, right ?
----------------------------
JLS=I never corrected your released file 1062224182.txt in that thread.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not AIC 4.b1 Event.

And yes in 4.b1 there is one Medium:
population rebel
Close Warp

Now this is a one in 40 Chance that a one of these will be chose (IF) Medium is the MAX http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The odds would be NIL if Max at LOW and NONE.
The odds are even far different at high or default.

Would you not agree, PTF?

In regards to Close Warp the Medium Event WILL be removed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 06, 2003, 19:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak September 6th, 2003 08:16 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
PTF, the way I understood Oleg he is using (HIS other Event file and with HIGH Chance) Not AIC 4.b1 Event.


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but I am using 3.02 and the first rebel entry is a medium already. There are more rebel entries later on with high severity.

EDIT: I will create my own events.txt for the test. Otherwise I can not certainly observe the severity of an event from your modded files.

[ September 06, 2003, 19:18: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 08:55 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
OK, but please remember, we Human Handle rebellions very efficiently by sending ships to orbit that planet.

The AI HomeWorlds already have safeguards and current remedies in AIC. With the Culture Center and the AI Systems Facility Combined for its HW
At AI Players Colonies outside its Homesystem it has a progressive improvement, as the AI Sys Facility is upgraded. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif See references below.

I believe if you lesson Rebellion Events you lesson the Chance that Independent Races will be Spawned at the AI Players Colonies. What are your thoughts on this PTF?

Also perment removal of any Rebellion Event may inflict a death sentence from QBrigid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

However PTF, I understand your concern when it is located in MEDIUM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

===========
Reference:

Name := Cultural Center
Description := The developed homeland of a space-age civilization, roughly continental in size, including hundreds of cities, parks, infrastructure, arts, religions, sciences, industry, etc.
Facility Group := Zenith Urban Center
Facility Family := 54
Roman Numeral := 0
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 10
Cost Minerals := 300000
Cost Organics := 200000
Cost Radioactives := 200000
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := AI Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 20
Ability 1 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Minerals
Ability 1 Descr := Population Center...
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1125
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 350
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Radioactives
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 300
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Point Generation - Research
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 700
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Point Generation - Intelligence
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := 150
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0
Ability 6 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 6 Descr :=
Ability 6 Val 1 := 15000
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Change Bad Event Chance – System ( I may increase this in 4.0)
Ability 7 Descr :=
Ability 7 Val 1 := 0
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0

Ability 8 Type := Resource Storage - Mineral
Ability 8 Descr :=
Ability 8 Val 1 := 5000
Ability 8 Val 2 := 0
Ability 9 Type := Resource Storage - Organics
Ability 9 Descr :=
Ability 9 Val 1 := 5000
Ability 9 Val 2 := 0
Ability 10 Type := Resource Storage - Radioactives
Ability 10 Descr :=
Ability 10 Val 1 := 5000
Ability 10 Val 2 := 0
Ability 11 Type := Component Repair
Ability 11 Descr :=
Ability 11 Val 1 := 1
Ability 11 Val 2 := 0
Ability 12 Type := Self-Destruct
Ability 12 Descr :=
Ability 12 Val 1 := 0
Ability 12 Val 2 := 0
Ability 13 Type := Change Population Happiness – System
Ability 13 Descr :=
Ability 13 Val 1 := 6 (This is a Huge Benefit and is equal to a small fleet over planet)
Ability 13 Val 2 := 0

Ability 14 Type := Stop Nebulae Creator
Ability 14 Descr :=
Ability 14 Val 1 := 0
Ability 14 Val 2 := 0
Ability 15 Type := Stop Black Hole Creator
Ability 15 Descr :=
Ability 15 Val 1 := 0
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0
Ability 16 Type := Stop Star Destroyer
Ability 16 Descr :=
Ability 16 Val 1 := 0
Ability 16 Val 2 := 0
Ability 17 Type := Resource Generation - Minerals
Ability 17 Descr :=
Ability 17 Val 1 := 50
Ability 17 Val 2 := 0
Ability 18 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 18 Descr :=
Ability 18 Val 1 := 25
Ability 18 Val 2 := 0
Ability 19 Type := Resource Generation - Radioactives
Ability 19 Descr :=
Ability 19 Val 1 := 55
Ability 19 Val 2 := 0
Ability 20 Type := Phased Shield Generation
Ability 20 Descr :=
Ability 20 Val 1 := 1000
Ability 20 Val 2 := 0

Name := Upgrade to Space Dock.
Description := Should Upgrade to Space Dock for AI Balance integrety.
Facility Group := Resupply
Facility Family := 8
Roman Numeral := 0
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 35
Cost Minerals := 8000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := AI Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 7
Ability 1 Type := Plague Prevention - System
Ability 1 Descr := Can generate unlimited supplies each turn for ships.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 3
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 2000
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Self-Destruct
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 0
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := 20
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0
Ability 6 Type := Fleet Training - System
Ability 6 Descr :=
Ability 6 Val 1 := 1
Ability 6 Val 2 := 3
Ability 7 Type := Phased Shield Generation
Ability 7 Descr :=
Ability 7 Val 1 := 300
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0

Name := Upgrade to Space Dock.
Description := Should Upgrade to Space Dock for AI Balance integrety..
Facility Group := Resupply
Facility Family := 8
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 35
Cost Minerals := 6000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := AI Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Military Science
Tech Level Req 2 := 2
Number of Abilities := 11
Ability 1 Type := Plague Prevention - System
Ability 1 Descr := Can generate unlimited supplies each turn for ships.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 4
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Spaceport
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 3000
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Planet - Change Population Happiness
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := -1
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0

Ability 6 Type := Self-Destruct
Ability 6 Descr :=
Ability 6 Val 1 := 0
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 7 Descr :=
Ability 7 Val 1 := 5
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0
Ability 8 Type := Fleet Training - System
Ability 8 Descr :=
Ability 8 Val 1 := 1
Ability 8 Val 2 := 3
Ability 9 Type := Ship Training - System
Ability 9 Descr :=
Ability 9 Val 1 := 2
Ability 9 Val 2 := 6
Ability 10 Type := Stop Close Warp Point
Ability 10 Descr :=
Ability 10 Val 1 := 0
Ability 10 Val 2 := 0
Ability 11 Type := Phased Shield Generation
Ability 11 Descr :=
Ability 11 Val 1 := 500
Ability 11 Val 2 := 0

Name := Upgrade to Space Dock.
Description := Should Upgrade to Space Dock for AI Balance integrety.,
Facility Group := Resupply
Facility Family := 8
Roman Numeral := 2
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 35
Cost Minerals := 5000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := AI Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Advanced Military Science
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 11
Ability 1 Type := Plague Prevention - System
Ability 1 Descr := Can generate unlimited supplies each turn for ships.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 5
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Spaceport
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 4000
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Planet - Change Population Happiness
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := -2
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0

Ability 6 Type := Self-Destruct
Ability 6 Descr :=
Ability 6 Val 1 := 0
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 7 Descr :=
Ability 7 Val 1 := 2
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0
Ability 8 Type := Fleet Training - System
Ability 8 Descr :=
Ability 8 Val 1 := 1
Ability 8 Val 2 := 5
Ability 9 Type := Ship Training - System
Ability 9 Descr :=
Ability 9 Val 1 := 2
Ability 9 Val 2 := 10
Ability 10 Type := Stop Close Warp Point
Ability 10 Descr :=
Ability 10 Val 1 := 0
Ability 10 Val 2 := 0
Ability 11 Type := Phased Shield Generation
Ability 11 Descr :=
Ability 11 Val 1 := 750
Ability 11 Val 2 := 0

Name := Upgrade to Space Dock.
Description := Should Upgrade to Space Dock for AI Balance integrety,,
Facility Group := Resupply
Facility Family := 8
Roman Numeral := 3
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 35
Cost Minerals := 3000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := AI Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Advanced Military Science
Tech Level Req 2 := 2
Number of Abilities := 12
Ability 1 Type := Plague Prevention - System
Ability 1 Descr := Can generate unlimited supplies each turn for ships.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 5
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Spaceport
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 5000
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Planet - Change Population Happiness
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := -3
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0

Ability 6 Type := Self-Destruct
Ability 6 Descr :=
Ability 6 Val 1 := 0
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 7 Descr :=
Ability 7 Val 1 := 1
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0
Ability 8 Type := Fleet Training - System
Ability 8 Descr :=
Ability 8 Val 1 := 2
Ability 8 Val 2 := 8
Ability 9 Type := Ship Training - System
Ability 9 Descr :=
Ability 9 Val 1 := 2
Ability 9 Val 2 := 15
Ability 10 Type := Stop Close Warp Point
Ability 10 Descr :=
Ability 10 Val 1 := 0
Ability 10 Val 2 := 0
Ability 11 Type := Stop Open Warp Point
Ability 11 Descr :=
Ability 11 Val 1 := 0
Ability 11 Val 2 := 0
Ability 12 Type := Phased Shield Generation
Ability 12 Descr :=
Ability 12 Val 1 := 1000
Ability 12 Val 2 := 0

Name := Space Dock
Description := A space port and supply hub combined in one large-scale facility.
Facility Group := Resupply
Facility Family := 8
Roman Numeral := 20
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 97
Cost Minerals := 5000
Cost Organics := 4000
Cost Radioactives := 8000
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Resupply
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Spaceport
Ability 1 Descr := Includes spaceports with unlimited supplies.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 3 Descr := Provides 400 extra unit spaces on a planet.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 400
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

[ September 06, 2003, 20:20: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 09:06 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
The events are distributed equally if no race has any modifier. There should be no difference between human and AI.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then why is that Oleg feel the AI is handled differantly? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Is this due to the test procedure he is using, that you mentioned.

Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Fyron, JLS, one of the important things about this (Aaron has confirmed it). You can not test the event chance with one player because the events are distributed over the races.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">==============================

Quote:

Do you think of a simulation without event chance modifiers for all of the races? That means, I would have to use non-religious races and I would have to remove any cultural traits about event chance modifiers.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree on all non-religious.
The AI HW Cultural center is allready zero.

Please, if you are also testing or make note of Max. Severity, then please use Events 4.b1 to base remarks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EVENTS 4.1b just >L-CLICK< for download

[ September 06, 2003, 20:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS September 6th, 2003 09:10 PM

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 
opps BRB

[ September 06, 2003, 20:18: Message edited by: JLS ]


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