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Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod v0.91 - Quickfix

Some things would rust horribly in the sea. Clockwork horrors definitely shouldn't work underwater, as their mechanisms would sieze up in like a day. Probably the same for mechanical men.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod v0.91 - Quickfix

A new use for the 'taking damage underwater' mod command, you say??

Gosh.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod v0.91 - Quickfix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid (Post 740264)

I see no reason why air has to be a good magic path for UW summons. Air Queens are specifically prohibited from going UW, after all. Air can let you breath UW, but let you do awesome stuff down there? Uh... huh?

You are probably right about the air summon. I'll give them a copy of the "ease UW item penalties" spell though, so that they can actually do something with all that UW item access.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llamabeast (Post 740320)

Some things would rust horribly in the sea. Clockwork horrors definitely shouldn't work underwater, as their mechanisms would sieze up in like a day. Probably the same for mechanical men.

Well, you can bring some heavy infantry underwater with breathing items and they never suffer from anykind of rusting. It would be odd if I applied the "rusting" logic on the Mechanical dudes but not on them. Besides, they are "magic beings", so it's not that much of stretch to assume that they are enchanted against rusting. Clockwork Horrors suck in UW anyways, mostly because of the reduced AP from poor ambhibian. I really see no reason to nerf them even further.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.

OK, UWGIM global released! Note that the .dm file does not overwrite the old one, you should just delete the old "UWGIM-global" .dm file before DL'ing the new version. This version make absolutely no national changes and is intented for those who like their UW nations as vanilla as possible.

I have tested that most of the spells work underwater, but I really can't test the balance of applications of all these changes. Especially the water evocations working underwater is a BIG change and I'd like to hear thoughts on the matter. (Hint: Expansion with "cold blast" is fun because there are no archers to kill your mages). I also didn't up any prices on anything because of it got UW access, which might raise minor balance issues but I really doubt it.

I also only went through the national summons on wiki. I might have missed some national units and spells that should be castable underwater. If you see something that does fit with the logic of this mod, please report it and I'll fix it.

List of changes this "global" mod version makes:

Code:

"Global Changes"



- "Prince of Death" into poorambhibian

- "Mother of Rivers", "Lady of Fortune" and "Lady of Springs" made into amphibians. (they were born form water)

- "Summon Sea Dogs" now reguires W1

- Thetis' Blessing down to ench 7

- Two new (W2/A2) spells that can partly negate UW breathing item penalties

- New summon "Awaken Kelp Ancient" that basically gives you "free" immobile "PD" commander underwater.

- "Living castle" now only reguires nature magic and is cheaper. It can now only be casted from land

- "Boil" now reguires just F2

- Vine Men/Ogres & Kings transform into Kelp equivalents if they move underwater, making them amphibious.

- Some uncommon UW indy mage sites and other sites to slightly balance gem income UW.

- Some common coastal sites that give access to good UW units

- "Ichtyid Warrior" unit got a parry 7 custom shield to act as a good arrow catcher for UW nations.





SPELLS:



- The following spells have been made castable in UW. Any summons from a summoning spell have of course been made into poor amphibians.



CONJURATION:



Black Servant

Awaken Vine Men

Revive Wight

Revive Bane

Awaken Vine Ogre

Summon Winter Wolves

Summon Fall Bears

Revive Bane Lord

Summon Lammashtas

Summon Ghosts

Call Eater of the Dead

Animal Horde

Awaken Ivy King

Summon Mound Fiend

Call Wraith Lord

Legions of Wights

Tartarian Gate





ALTERATION:



Manifest Vitriol



EVOCATION:



Slime

Cold Bolt 

Cold Blast

Rust Mist

Freezing Mist

Healing Light

Sleep Cloud

Falling Frost

Earthquake

Healing Mists

Magma Eruption

Bane Fire

Cloud of Death

Niefel Flames



CONSTRUCTION:



Clockwork Horrors

Construct Manikin

Crusher Construction

Construct Mandragora

Mechanical Men

Siege Golem

Golem Construction

Iron Dragon

Juggernaut

Poison Golem



ENCHANTMENT



Revive King

Create Revenant

Behemoth

Pale Riders

Hidden in Snow

Reanimate Archers

Ziz



THAUMATHURGY



Rage

Leeching Darkness

Hydrophobia

Notable national summons that got UW access:
Panganea Carrion creatures, national undead summons (Shura, Civatateo, Baen Sidhe), Monster & Jaguar Toads

The "national" version of UWGIM will be released sometime in the future and concentrate on making EA/MA Oceania/Atlantis suck considerably less.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.

Mmm, Shura getting amphibian.

This actually might make most of the UW nations more viable--especially the Manifest Vitriol/Vine men shenanigans. Oh my goodness, you can field summons armies without needing to give all your casters amulets of the fish <3

The only truly silly spell I see is Earthquake...you're swimming.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.

yeah earthquake doesn't make sense. falling frost.... not sure if the frost would "fall" in the water. or at least not that painfully.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kianduatha (Post 741467)

The only truly silly spell I see is Earthquake...you're swimming.

Read the description for the spell.

Quote:

With a thundering boom, the ground heaves and erupts, throwing soldiers into crevices that close after a few seconds

I see no reason why a event like that couldn't happen underwater.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama (Post 741468)

yeah earthquake doesn't make sense. falling frost.... not sure if the frost would "fall" in the water. or at least not that painfully.

Falling frost does pure frost damage. So a 100% frostres unit is immune, no matter how feeble it otherwise might be. So, the spell does not in fact do any damage in the form of falling icicles and stuff, it is just cold. Things like momentum and friction do not apply, it is just magical drop in the temperature. And you can make frost underwater in dom3, I know this because "Grip of Winter" works underwater in vanilla.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.

Earthquake makes a lot of sense to me - I would actually expect it to be very nasty in the real world, because of the shock waves being transmitted through the water.

The ones I don't think should be included are Rust Mist, Healing Mist and Freezing Mist, and arguably Sleep Cloud, because (a) mists don't make a lot of sense under water, and (b) they are horrible spells whose graphics make my game run so slowly that I generally have to give up watching any battle in which they are cast. Mainly (a) though. On the other hand I think Cloud of Death makes sense under water as it could be seen as a purely mystical cloud.

I also feel Cold Bolt, Cold Blast and Slime don't feel right, as they appear to have momentum and you'd expect them to get stopped in their tracks underwater. However I can see why you've included them and I think it's probably fine.

I also agree that Falling Frosts doesn't feel right, but reckon that on balance it is probably okay and again it is useful to include for gameplay. At least there is consistency that, admittedly surprisingly, all the cold evocations work underwater.

If there were no shortage of spell slots I would be tempted to make alternative versions of Cold Bolt, Cold Blast, Slime and Falling Frosts which were underwater-only, had exactly the same effects, but had different graphics and descriptions which were more consistent with being underwater. However the lack of spell slots means this probably isn't worthwhile.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.

Oh, I forgot to actually say my main reaction - this looks really great, thanks Burnsaber!

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llamabeast (Post 741489)

The ones I don't think should be included are Rust Mist, Healing Mist and Freezing Mist, and arguably Sleep Cloud, because (a) mists don't make a lot of sense under water, and (b) they are horrible spells whose graphics make my game run so slowly that I generally have to give up watching any battle in which they are cast. Mainly (a) though. On the other hand I think Cloud of Death makes sense under water as it could be seen as a purely mystical cloud.

The thing is that "Poison Cloud" is castable in UW in vanilla. If this magical cloud of poison can stay "concentrated" on a specific area for a certain time before dispersing to the enviroment, other clouds should too. Their function is pretty much the same, the only difference is the inclusion of "Mist" in the title. The thing is, I don't see why a W/E mage couldn't make a certain area of water corrosive by applicating the "Rust Mist" spell. The poor name choice of the spell is just semantics. I could easily change the name to "Rust Cloud" and it wouldn't change a thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llamabeast (Post 741489)

I also feel Cold Bolt, Cold Blast and Slime don't feel right, as they appear to have momentum and you'd expect them to get stopped in their tracks underwater. However I can see why you've included them and I think it's probably fine.

I also agree that Falling Frosts doesn't feel right, but reckon that on balance it is probably okay and again it is useful to include for gameplay. At least there is consistency that, admittedly surprisingly, all the cold evocations work underwater.

Yeah, my logic here is the same. It's pure frost damage, a magical drop in temperature. Friction and momentum do not matter here, as the spells clearly do no physical damage. That's why "Ice Strike" is still not castable underwater.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llamabeast (Post 741489)

If there were no shortage of spell slots I would be tempted to make alternative versions of Cold Bolt, Cold Blast, Slime and Falling Frosts which were underwater-only, had exactly the same effects, but had different graphics and descriptions which were more consistent with being underwater. However the lack of spell slots means this probably isn't worthwhile.

Well, I could just edit the vanilla spells to have different graphical effects. "Slime" for example could just have a explosion of goo happen at the target and we could skip the missile graphic. People would notice that for sure, but probably not care. (it would just make the battle run faster)