Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

What is the tech tree set up like? I hope that it is straightforward. I have played some mods that are totally confusing when it comes to research. Just by looking at the research list you would never know what to do to get a phaser or hyperdrive or whatever. It should be as simple as:
Federation Tech\Federation Weapons\Phasers I-X
Propulsion\Warp Drive\Warp Nacelle I-V
or something like that.
Frustrating research = frustrating game.

Perhaps later you could release a tech tree so that we can have a glimpse into your ideas for the research process. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Look in the text files to see what gives what. Or, play with the ability to view the entire tech tree (in game mechanics tab at game startup).

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Re: Tech Tree

The tech tree is fairly straightforward. There are some crossover requirements for particular items that might be a little more complicated, but nothing too difficult. One of the things that I will be making is a playing guide for each race to make things a little bit easier.

Re: Website

Is there anything you'd like to see added to the website? Let me know!

[ January 02, 2003, 17:38: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I don't think I answered the tech tree question very well, so here is a better example:

Examples

As a Federation Player:

*Energy Stream Weapons I
> Lasers > Lasers I-III (All)

*Energy Stream Weapons II
> Phasers > Phasers I-X (Federation Only)

*Energy Pulse Weapons I
> Disruptors I-X (All)
> Phase Cannons [if Lasers I+] (All)

*Energy Pulse Weapons II
> Pulse Phasers I-V [if Phasers I+] (Federation Only)

*Torpedo Weapons I-V
...Anti-Matter Torpedoes I-V (All)

*Torpedo Weapons VI-X
...Photon Torpedoes I-V (All)

*Torpedo Weapons XI-V
...Quantum Torpedoes I-V (Federation Only)

*Vehicle Weapons I
...Mini Laser I [if laser I+]
...Mini Phaser I&II [if phaser I&III] (Federation Only)
...Mini Anti-Matter Torpedo [if Anti-Matter Torpedo I+]
...Mini Photon Torpedo [if Photon Torpedo I+]

As a Dominion Player:

*Energy Stream Weapons I
> Lasers > Lasers I-III (All)

*Energy Stream Weapons II
> Polaron Beam > Polaron Beam I-III (Dominion Only)

*High Energy Discharge Weapons I
> Polaron Cannon I-III [if Polaron Beam I+] (Dominion Only)

*Physics I
> Bunch o' stuff

*Physics II
> Phased Energy Weapons > Phased-Polaron Beam I-III (Dominion Only)

*Torpedo Weapons I-V
...Anti-Matter Torpedoes I-V (All)

*Torpedo Weapons VI-X
...Photon Torpedoes I-V (All)
...Positron Torpedoes I-V (Dominion Only)

Notes: Each race has different options open for each of the top level weapon technologies. Notice the differences between the Federation and Dominion weapons for the same tech areas. I have omitted other racial techs for clarity, but each one follows a similiar pattern.

[ January 02, 2003, 19:43: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Concerning torpedoes, will there be an advantage to using different types of torpedoes? For example:
Antimatter Torpedo - Small and cheap. Not very strong. Fire rate 1
Photon Torpedo - Moderate balance between size, cost, and power. Fire rate 2
Quantum Torpedo - Strong but larger and more expensive. Fire rate 3

That way we can see Akiras and Galaxies that still use photons while Defiants and Sovereigns stick with the quantums. We saw in First Contact and Nemisis that even though there are quantums, photons are still in heavy use. Just curious to see how this will be done in the mod.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The torpedoes you've mentioned above are all from the same weapon family. They all share a fire rate of 2, but differ in power and range. While Anti-Matter torpedoes are considered early tech and wouldn't stick around for too long, Photon Torpedoes should remain popular to their low cost and decent performance, in fact, they are the highest level of torpedo for most races. The Federation, Romulans, and Dominion have additional torpedo options, but due to some of their limitations or costs, I would think that Photons would remain a viable option for their ships as well.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Wait a minute! Isn't a Photon Torpedo just that? I thought a Photon Torpedo IS an Anti-matter Torpedo? I thought the word "Photon" was just an acronym for "short burst weapon". Am I wrong here?

I don't mind the idea of all races using this "Antimatter torpedo" weapon, but I just thought Photons are the same thing only named differently (slang talk you might say for starfleet crews).

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

A Photon torpedo is just a souped up Anti-Matter torpedo...

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A Photon is a "particle" of light. This has many trekkies confused, as photons have nothing to do with the destructive power of the Photon Torpedo...

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

An antimatter annihilation reaction produces a bunch of photons, maybe that's where it comes from http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

just wanted to say this mod is looking great

also in star trek armada the klingons also use phasers so may be u should consider a least making the phaser tech capturable

[ January 06, 2003, 06:44: Message edited by: Lib3r8er ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

i agree completely, not only the federation have phasers they are the ones only with PULSE PHASERS not phasers.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Greetings.

It has been a couple of days since I Last posted, here is the latest info:

Most of the data files are done, with a few minor exceptions I hope to address during this week. School has also resumed this week, so that will slow things again. However, I'm hoping to have a beta Version to some testers very soon, so that's good. I've also worked on putting together some temp ship sets until I get the original ones more complete.

One of the files I've worked on was happiness.txt, I've added several more happiness types to better correspond with the different races:

Neutral: ?
Capitalist: Ferengi
Collective: Borg
Expansionist: Cardassian
Peaceful: Federation
Religious: [N]
Warrior: Klingon, Romulan, [N]
Xenophobic: Dominion, [N]

[N] denotes use by a neutral race.

I've also modified cultures.txt to a similiar degree as above.

Due to the method that I've arranged the vehiclesize.txt file (custom hulls for most of a race's ship sizes), I just realized I will have to do the same for the neutrals (i.e., making a unique neutral technology trait), since I don't want neutral default sizes appearing in the ship lists of the major races. I'm also thinking of reducing the sizes of the neutral ships, since you don't expect the Bajorans to be cruising around in 1000kT ships. I'll probably top the big ships at 500-600kT in size.

That's all for now.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Greetings Again!

I've updated the website with a new feature - Mod Status - which allows visitors to check what's going on. I've also added temporary images for some Federation and Dominion ships, I'll be adding temporary images for other races sometime soon.

As usual, any comments are welcomed.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I noticed that you changed the nebula into the one with the sensor pod. Why did you do that? It is hardly battle worthy without it's battle pod. Are you planning on making the nebula class upgradeable? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">... The nebula class is most certainly battle worthy even without it's battle pod. And you can make the nebula class upgradable yourself; just create two variants in a TNG mod game.

Personaly, I think the Phoenix (Sensors pod Version) looks a lot better than the Sutherland (Weapons pod Version).

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is exactly why I changed it. I didn't like the way the upper pod was turning out with the Sutherland variant.

Edit: Besides, who says the Phoenix variant's upper pod can't have a couple of torpedo tubes?

[ January 08, 2003, 21:35: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

You can not upgrade a ship from one vehicle type to another.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think that's what he was asking, Fyron.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

That is what was being implied. Have 2 different types of Nebula class ships, and upgrade from one to the other. It won't work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Just an idea: maybe we could use both Versions of the Nebula. the weapons pod one would be a combat ship and the sensor pod would be a science ship for stellar manipulation and things like that. there could be a class-specific weapon mount like the plans for the defiant to make the use of the 2 diferent ships beneficial. it would probably take a little time to change this, so maybe for a future release once the mod is done. Or maybe give the sensor pod one a natural ability to scan for cloaked ships. not a strong one, just like a lvl 2 cloak. or give it some sort of sensor boost without needing to add the component for it. That way the sensor pod wouldn't be just for show. Just thinking out loud.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Oh yes. I like that idea a lot. That would definitly make both sides happy. The combat nebula and the sensor nebula. I think I would actually use both if they had different bonuses. That is a great idea! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Two different Nebula classes sounds good to me

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

... If you create 2 different nebula classes, you can't change one to the other, and vise versa, in SE4. If you want a sensors pod nebula and a weapons pod nebula and want to retrofit between them, you'll have to settle for 1 nebula class. Which means you are stuck with one image for the nebula class.

And if you do give bonuses to the hull itself, then technically, it's the nebula itself that has the ability, not the pod.

Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is with having 1 image for the Nebula...

[ January 12, 2003, 02:24: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

There'll be a single Nebula hull size and image - it'll be up to player to create the different designs they want.

I just have to correct the mistakes in the data files and make sure the components and facilities match the tech areas - then I should be able to load the mod for the first time. After that, some minor adjustments and then onto AIs and then beta test!

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Cool, sounds good Captain. Good luck Beta Testers!

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Both Versions look good. i dont really have a favorite, but the sensor pod one is probably better to use as it goes along with starfleet's scientific mission. remember, prior to the defiant project and more recent designs, federation ships are built primarily for discovery with weapons as secondary to only be used in defense of the federation. look at the galaxy. its huge, but hardly armed to the teeth. a combat oriented race would have used all the lab space and civilian quarters to add much more weaponry, but the federation isn't out to pick a fight. they are just ready if someone picks one with them. the model looks great, by the way.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Greetings.

I continue to work on the mod when I get the chance but unfortunately that is not as often as I would like. I've been putting together some temp graphics and fixing all the little mistakes I keep coming across in the data files. Thanks for your patience and I hope that I have something more to show sooner than later. Also, I'm looking on suggestions on improving the website to make it more informative and inviting, which you can post here or e-mail to me.

Oh wait, one Last thing - I've gotten a few e-mails asking what a beta tester would do. Basically, just play the game, noting any imbalances, difficulties, strange occurances, and other items that can be improved.

Thanks again!

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

ive got a question captain
how will u be deciding who the beta testers for this mod are?

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm, easy, anyone who e-mails me and has SE:IV Gold.

[ January 18, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

thanx im doing that

also are u going to be giving the Cardassians the huet class or not?

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Hey Cap K,

How must longer before we're be receiving your beta?

LIghthorse

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm working on it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

The biggest problem is getting enough time at once to seriously add the remaining entries and fix all the little mistakes so the mod can actually be loaded!

[ January 20, 2003, 04:45: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

The fun part of modding for me has been the development and design aspect of the mod. Tweaking it, and adding in the little extras over time. However, a lot of ground work and infastructure of any mod will go into the pre-alph and beta stages. The real interesting work, and the tedous parts of it all, comes when you start getting bug reports and have to nail those bugers down. Although yo get a sence of accomplishment each and everytime you kill a bug, the overall process can get a little disheartening at first. Eventually I found it to be the second best part of the modding adventure. The first has always been seeing and hearing that people enjoy your mod, and that your efforts are adding to the value of this fine game.

Take all the time you need Kwok, its a lot more fun setting things up then it is hunting things down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Captain Kwok,

I'm here waiting for you, take all the time you need.

Lighthorse

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Greetings!

This is just a brief announcement that the TNG mod no longer exists!

...Atrocities and I are going to combine our efforts to merging our mods into a single 'Star Trek' mod. I'll post more details once Atrocities and I have some time to discuss them...

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I do not like the Atrocities TNG mod. I do not hate it alot but I just do not seem to like it alot. I hope the new TNG mod is to my liking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ January 22, 2003, 23:03: Message edited by: Ryan ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Yoink! Just like that, TNG gone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Yeah, I know, that was my first reaction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , but I'm sure that the final mod (I'd like to call it ST-MegaMod, or perhaps ST-InterGenerations; ST-MM and ST-IG respectively) will be just fine. Capt'n, I'd just like to say that I really like the artwork you've done on TNG so far, and I hope it works it's way into the new "ST-MegaMod". I'm also a big fan of the unique ships by race and the unique buildings by race. The leaky shields are a MUST in my opinion, and I've been looking forward to seeing how they perform in tactical combat!

Finally, while I haven't observed the Captains components in action, I thought that that was fairly inspired also.

Good luck with the new mod, I personally think the synthesis of the two will be quite beneficial. I'll maybe post some of my thoughts on the whole intergeneration thing later too...

-jimbob

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

A critic!

Ryan would you be so kind as to explain what you dislike about the mod. The feed back could be very helpful in the future.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its nothing like that. The TNG mod is not gone as Captain Kwok has invested to much time into it for it to happen. Take heart in knowning that the new mod, whatever the name, will be a damned fine mod that I am sure everyone will enjoy playing.

[ January 23, 2003, 01:43: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Ryan, what do you not like about the AST Mod? Just saying that you do not like it doesn't really mean much. Maybe if you gave suggestions on how it could be better...

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Do not fear!

All of the neat items will be included! This means items like leaky armor, leaky shields, captains, propulsion, and more races! Plus, you'd have two people working on the project which means it will get done! If it were up to me, I'd probably be fiddling around forever. More details will follow and the website will be updated this weekend reflecting the new changes.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Greetings.

Some tidbits:

The new Star Trek mod will include 3 additional main races in addition to the 7 that were originally expected in the TNG mod, they are:

Breen
Species 8472
Tholians

Atrocities and I will be working on creating specific racial techs and characteristics for these empires. The website will be updated this weekend with the details for each of the new additions. Even more fun, is the addition of Atrocities' neutral races that will be individualized to really flesh out the universe!

The mod has no truly specific timeline, although most of the ships are from the TNG era, most of the Tech tree really starts in the Enterprise era. I suppose an ultimate goal would be create a succession of ships to represent each era - but let's not bite off more than we can chew.

You may have noticed that I have referred to the combined mod simply as the 'Star Trek Mod'. I think we'll stick with that name since it's easy and won't be confused with any other mod - minus Geo's effort from some time ago - but that's not a big deal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

That's all for now, thanks for interest and more importantly your patience!

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I am not sure what I really do not like in the AST Modification. Maybe because not alot of technologies to explore or have I missed something? I also like new and unique ideas, just like Kwok's idea of Captains. I cannot be very specific with what is wrong with it but It is still a above average modification. On a scale of 0 to 2 (0 Bad, 1 Average, 2 Best) I would give it a 1.4. But I believe that once AST Mod merges with KST Mod they will become the best mod ever. Maybe it should be called the KAST (Kwok and Atrocities Star Trek) Mod. Eheh.

Here is a suggestion for the KAST Mod:
How about an Android Captain? (Data, Lore, B4)

I hope adding three races to the mod does not make the size too big or delay the release too long.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

See. I dont check the board for a few days and all hell breaks loose. Personally I think this will be a good thing for all of us that have been waiting for so long for kwok's mod. by doubling the team, they double the speed and modding ability. They can tackle diferent projects in the mod so it will be a combination of the best from both of them. Since poor little me is stuck with non-gold (im in a private college, so i have no money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif my birthday's in march and my gf has already promised me that gold will be one of my gifts.), i have been unable to play atrocities mod, but i have heard good things. And most importantly, the sooner the mod is done and refined to perfection, the sooner they can plan on a st mod for star fury once its released. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I have played the AST mod several times on different computers. I guess it is just what I like that makes me think I do not like it alot. Let's say I like Pepsi and "Bob" likes Coke and I do not like Coke and "Bob" does not like Pepsi, our likes conflict. It is something like that but I am sure that the ST Mod will be the best mod ever. Adding ships from each era/series would be hard and would make the mod too big for us 56K-ers. The AST mod is the biggest Mod I have downloaded but the largest file I have ever downloaded was around 80GBs. It almost took a whole day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Good luck, Atrocities and Kwok.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

No offense Ryan, but have you played the AST mod?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Each race has its own tech tree, and there are three additional tech trees to follow. Even the neutral empires have a tech tree.

There are mounts, weapons, facilities, components, etc for nearly every race in the game.

Granted the tech levels started off equal at 2 weapons and componets each with multiple levels, but that is the beuty of the game, you can add more as you go. I have simply not gotten around to adding more.

In defense of the mod is also the first to use the Fyron Q-mod, and to take full advantage of the Image mod. Not to mention a few other fine mods.

Never the less, your right, 1.4 on your scale is a good rating, and I am honored that you ranked it so well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I think this is a great idea!!!! Both of you have put a lot of work into your mods.

Good luck on this project!!

BTW, I've been playing the AST mod for some time and it's one of the best mods I've played.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[ January 26, 2003, 01:09: Message edited by: userx ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

As they say, 2 heads are better than one! So for me this is good news to hear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Just keep me on that Beta Testers List, cause I got alot of time to kill here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I'm working away on a major site update that includes:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Breaking 'Treknology' into smaller race-specific pages to reduce loading times! My editor tells me it takes about 60+ sec to load for the standard 56K modem user http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . Also, updating the list to include recent changes to the mod.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Adding new information to all the Race descriptions, and new entries for the Tholians, Breen, and Species 8472.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Adding new ship pages for the above mentioned races.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And finally, sticking in all into the new design format which can be partially seen at the moment.
  </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One final thing, we also have set up a new forum for the mod, since the Shrapnel Games forum tends to have heavy traffic, and things tend to get lost or burried quickly. Star Trek Mod Discussion at Fyron's Imperial Forums.

[ January 26, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Kwok, I think your editor is a crock then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Load times are always changing, based on many, many factors. All the editor does is take a strict calculation of supposed speed of the modem connection and divide it by file size.