Re: MBT's
 

I'm posting this here for widest dissemination because of the current TO&E this article provides as follows for a French SGTIA (tactical combined arms sub-grouping). This UNIT is discussed at the bottom of the article. Now please, I haven't checked this against the OOB as I have important things to take care of after this is posted.

Go to paras above (The big one.) and we know currently a French MBT Platoon is made up of 6 Leclerc tanks, Recon Platoon 8 VBCI IFV and so on as the "puzzle" comes together.

Maybe useful maybe not :dk:, but these type of articles are rare when they discuss TO&E matters.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...n_estonia.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

OMG!, we're getting real close now! A major milestone has just been completed after almost 1.5yrs.

I'll just let you read it, I've got lunch coming before I have to get ready for work.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...st_center.html

After following this for SOooo long, it's good to know we'll see something NEW!

Recommend no change to current timeline.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

One of tanks I thought we see by games from a list (My list.) I posted in here 2-3 years will now be "scratched" from it. I have some notes already developed for submission of this tank, which I'll keep "in the it'll take a miracle now" file, but I'm confident we won't see as the quote from the ref concerning dates uses the words "planned for", I speak of the CHALLENGER 3 the article is dated from today.

The killer quote...
"Full Operating Capability for the tank is planned for 2030, with initial operating capability (IOC mine.) expected by 2027."

The article also gives a little more data on the operational aspects of the CHALLENGER 3 as well. At the current rate of development, this won't be the only tank not to make it by DEC. 2025.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...tems_land.html

Have to get ready for work and get my J&J shot at "high noon" tomorrow. I really hate needles!?! :(

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

A few years down the line but....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HzhqGa2Mac

Re: MBT's
 

Copy unit 63.

Change the following
Speed 33 ( if 60MPH is indeed accurate )
TI/GSR 60
Stabilizer 7
And betting EW = 2
Icon 1998
and you have a Challenger 3

Re: MBT's
 

There's more: First this is who's been contracted to do the work back around 2017/2018, Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land. This should be enough to tell you the MG isn't going to be the same.

The turret will be of a new design and up armored. Also the British will be arming the CHALLENGER 3 with a 120mm SB (Why you new need the "new" turret.) with new loading system.

Also the hull will be receiving a new modular armor system as well, which might be very similar to the one the LEOPARD 2A7V might be getting ;), that I mentioned in my emails to Ralph Zwilling.

Again I will hold onto my model until and if and when things should change,however, don't hold your breath.

That timeline came from MOD.

How long, this long from my files from 2018 to present...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...d_in_2018.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/sept...k_upgrade.html
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/deci...taken-in-2021/
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/bae-...edusa-upgrade/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53909087
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...n_project.html
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...oured-vehicles
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...fence-strategy
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...tems_land.html

Additional reading the UK has it's own Plan 2030...
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ssible-version
(Chapter 7.)
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/the-...le-tank-fleet/
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/cont...enger-3-tanks/
"The programme will commence in 2021, with an expected in-service date of 2027."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ks-Europe.html
"The army is expected to receive the first tanks by 2027 and the full fleet by 2030." (This falls in line with IOC/FOC Dates.)
https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../659/65907.htm
(This I found to be a very interesting read.) :cool:

It's a done deal from what I can see, I'm not wasting anymore of my time on this.

2027 for either IOC or FOC shouldn't be on anyone's calendar.

I started tracking this as early as 2017 and whenever I posted that list in this thread 2-3 years ago, I thought for sure the CHALLENGER 3 was a shoe in for something possibly as early as 2024 or certainly by mid 2025.

Some people have completely disregarded the economics and the effects that COVID-19 has added to those "stressors" already emplace prior to it in many of the worlds major economies.

You have factor these things into the equation concerning weapons development. Beyond the technical issues encountered, A couple case studies include the Russian ARMATA (The "oil war" with Saudi Arabia last year as one example.) and the shortage of F-35 engines that will curtail operations and development until 2023 (COVID-19 Cited here for this situation.) and finally SADF the BADGER will be submitted for deletion due to economic and corruption reasons and I have plenty of refs to support it. One I submitted a longtime ago in a galaxy far...anyway it's DOA for game purposes now.

I don't deal in fantasies unless I'm watching say "The Game of Thrones" or some such. I invest and take a "world view" of things and therein lays one of the "tenants" of how things get done.

In context to CHALLENGER 3, at one point the whole fleet of CHALLENGER 2 tanks was to be modernized. Then it was reduced somewhat, depending on source, to 200 -250.

And now they'll get only 148 and will scrap 250 CHALLENGER 2 tanks. I understand why they won't sell them, they could remove internal and some external equipment to protect proprietary technical information but, it would be difficult to do the same with the armor and still make the tank affordable to a foreign buyer.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I would say 60mph is theoretical emergency road use only its more a product of better acceleration which would be very useful.
How are they going to keep the tracks on.

Re: MBT's
 

Nothing I haven't already posted on CHALLENGER 3, EXCEPT, now we know specifically which Rheinmetall MG it'll carry. The MG will the 120mm/L55A1 which is their latest fielded version.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...hbore_gun.html

On tracks:
https://www.treehugger.com/rubber-tr...uieter-4857100
http://www.combatreform.org/bandtracks.htm

It's well documented that the ABRAMS and limited other tanks can get to 60 mph on the road or smooth off road conditions. But as John pointed out, this is more about acceleration then maintained "sustained" speed of advance on the road. This will change and it's almost here now (German LEOPARD 2A7) where "rubber" tracks will allow for sustained "higher speeds" during road ops. The articles above go into more detail on this.

CHALLENGER 2 currently has a 1200hp engine at a top rated speed of 56kmh/34.78mph.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/challenger_2.htm

CHALLENGER 3 will get at least a new 1500hp engine and possibly larger. There are designs for a 1800hp tank engine, of which Turkey for one, tried pursuing for the ALTAY.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Hi DRG

I don't see icon 1998 in the game

Re: MBT's
 

This is what I get when I enter icon1998 picture below.