Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.
 

Actually falling frost is demonstrably physical in nature, since those caught in the aoe get to make a def check to avoid any damage. This is distinct from falling fire or acid rain.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.
 

Also while my new computer means no slowdown for me no matter how many clouds are cast in a battle, I sympathise with llama having been in that situation myself. It quickly makes battles unwatchable on older PCs.

Would it be possible to change the graphics of the cloud to make them less resource intensive? A lower density cloud effect for instance.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.
 

Hmm. Kind of true I suppose. Never thought of it from that angle. It's just the fact that when a mage casts it underwater, the following effect does not really "look" or "feel" like it doesn't belong. You could say that my limit on making a spell castable is if it feels right. Sort of like if your opponent casted the spell, would you scream out "BS! He can't do that!"? If that happens, I'm not getting the effect I'm looking for.

On the other hand, water magic sort of sucking underwater just does not feel right. I think I could make "Falling Frost" not castable UW, but make "Water Strike" better and harder to cast since W1 mages can now spam "cold bolt/blast/slime" so they have something to cast. To be short, we could make "water strike" into a powerful mid-game UW water combat spell.

I think it could in the intrests of this mod to fiddle with some spell effects (mostly the "mist" cloud spells) to make them "look right" UW. I don't think that it should be up to this mod to do something about "fire cloud" and the like. I don't want to "feature creep" this mod. Perhaps CBM or the community sprite mod?

Actually, one probably just could add the code for the new effects themselves to the bottom of their copy of CBM. It's just a graphical change, so it won't "activate" any cheating alarms or the like. Anyways, this stuff is sort of a tangent and could use its own thread if any further discussion is needed.


In other news, I had a very boring lecture today and got into thinking of one aspect of UW nations that I have forgot to tackle. Prentenders.
Underwater pretenders, to be more precise. Anyone who has played a underwater knows this problem. Most of them just suck and their problems can be directly traced to a single point in all of them.

They give water magic. Water magic on pretender is just useless for a underwater nation and you are using precious desgin points on stuff that you don't want. Must be the reason why the liches/ghost king are the most popular underwater pretenders. The root of the problem is that the water magic on these pretenders is pretty thematic and thus CBM cannot really touch the issue. See the title of this mod? Underwater GAMEPLAY improvement mod, we are not so constrained here.

Of course I want to keep stuff as thematic as possible, but I kind of think of the issue like this. If all of the *thematic* pretenders are useless just because of their thematicness, players are forced to use the unthematic ones. Since we are talking about pretenders here, what point is to them to be thematic if no one is going to see them in-game? My orginal idea was just to give them new modded pretenders, but that would be lame. I'd rather just make the already thematic options better than add new "super-pretenders" to replace the old ones.

Here is some quick brainstorming to get some discussion going:

Son of the Sea (All UW Nations) -> This guy is hopeless. He'd be perfect a pretender.. for a *land* nation. He has nothing that a UW nation could want. Just more of that "so usefull" water magic. His mere concept is unsalvageable since no other path really make sense for so "sea" focused dude. Thus his change could be most drastic. I'd rewrite his unitname and description to make him the "Lord of Storms", sort of like angry Poseidon who raises storms to devour sailors and to mess with Odysseys. The bringing units underwater could be explained as him saving some guys that strike him fancy (when he feels like it). That would allow us to change his magic to "A2W1" which would give much more of a niche. Or perhaps A1W1 "base" and give him a land shape with +1 air and his water shape could have +1 water.

Dagon (Atlantis) -> More water magic? Ugh. I'd just make him E1W1 and perhaps increase path cost to 60. One option also is to just make him magicless and decrease his base cost.

Draikana (R'lyeh + Atlantis) -> She has SC potential but those paths are pretty ugly. Lich/Ghost King is just a better choice for a SC that diversifies to death, which leaves her with no real niche. As an underwater witch, perhaps she could be W1D1N1 with perhaps somewhat higher path cost? We could also just scrap the water magic alltogether, it's not that necessary of her theme. She is a titaness cursed with a hideous form (= death magic) which allows her to breathe underwater. Don't really see where the water magic comes into play. So another choice would be to make her just have D as base and lower her path cost to 30 or 20 to make her more attractive next to a Lich.

Old Man of the Sea (Oceania)-> Yet again, more water magic. Might have some SC potential, but once again the Liches/GK are a better choice for the diversification SC niche. I'd give him some lordship over the sea winds and let him be A1W1S1 base. He'd then be a sort of rainbow/diversification/semi-SC all-rounder for pretty cheap. Oceania could appreciate the chance to get their hands on those air boosters.

Lord of the Waves (Oceania) -> Base E is nice. I guess he is sort of supposed to be more of a SC than the "Old Man of the Sea" with his higher base stats, but it's not enough to make him better compared to him. It's simple: Astral >> Earth and the man can just take earth himself with his lower pathcost. The lord could perhaps get air magic too (wind makes waves after all). One option is that he could get the "Wave Trident" as a base weapon. That would certainly be thematic.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "Global" version released.
 

Do you not think falling frost might make it more difficult to get underwater against an underwater nation ?

You will now face, potentially, massed falling frost hitting everything that isn't undead.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "National" version released.
 

Okay, a new version of the global mod and released the national version.

Changes in the global mod:
- UW pretenders made better
- Falling Frost no longer castable UW
- "Water Strike" was made better (number of effects 1+ so that it is a lot better on high W mages)

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "National" version released.
 

It looks like the national version doesn't have Coral Hauberk/Basalt Armor encumbrance changes in it, if you meant to still include those.

Also the Wave Breaker on the Lord of the Waves doesn't seem to be enough of a 'fix' for him...it doesn't onebattlespell or anything, he just hits stuff a bunch of times and you really shouldn't be putting him in combat without at least a shield or something...and a Wave Breaker is two-handed.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- "National" version released.
 

:doh:

Forgot add the changes from my test mod to the actual version.

I'll do a quickfix tomorrow for that. As for the Lord of the Waves, I'll try to figure something out.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- Quickfixes for all
 

Okay, quickfix for the coral armor. Updated both the global and national version as I also did some more work on pretenders. Nerid, Dagon and the Great Seer of the Deeps now also benefit from changes. Didn't boost Lord of the Waves that much, just slightly boosted stats and he got a "Crown" armor. I'd like to start careful first with these pretender changes, since I'm piling this stuff on already boosted CBM pretenders.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- Quickfixes for all
 

Mmm, I love the new Dagon--early game SC like a Wyrm(not quite as good of course) but has full slots for later. You have plenty of room for scales and a few magic paths to make him terrifying, too.

Incidentally the Coral Hauberk change makes Triton Troopers actually recruitable for UW combat, especially vs someone like R'lyeh. And Shark Knights are downright scary! I actually really like it, because things like Coral Guards for EA Atlantis suddenly have a niche as 19 prot badasses.

EA Oceania has this weird thing going on where it gets two different mermage recruits from its underwater castles right now. Also MA Atlantis has Atlantean Light Infantry recruited from coastal forts when presumably Reef Warriors should be able to be recruited.

Re: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod- Quickfixes for all
 

Hmm. I removed all traces of the coastal recruitment stuff, but this might be some sort of clash with the recruitment changes of CBM. I'll look into it. Just to be sure, you didn't have UWGIM global + national enabled together or national + CBM both enabled?