Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Umm... no. I am continuing my long-standing tradition of posting teasers for my mods... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Adamant Mod 0.13.34 Fyron can you post a link to its download please thanks

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I do not see the problem? I costs 8, has 3 HP. II costs 7, has 3 HP. It gets cheaper with the tech advance. III costs 8, has 4 HP. More expensive but stronger. IV costs 7 and has 4 HP. It again gets cheaper compared with III. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oops! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I must have got mixed up. Sorry about that!

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The links to the old Versions can be found in the game forums on SE.net. Also, they can be found in the same Downloads Category they have always been in over on SE.net. 0.13.34

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Surely _somebody_ else must have played the mod and has comments...

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Adamant 0.14.06 is released! You can find it at the Adamant Mod Website, located on SE.net, linked in my sig. As always, the Lite file makes a good patch. Race Pack is not necessary to upgrade if you have 0.14.05 installed. If you have 0.14.04 or earlier, it is recommended that you download the Race Pack as well as Lite to patch your Version of the mod.

Version 0.14.06 - 30 May 2004:
Files Altered: Abilities.txt, AI Tags.txt, Components.txt, Events.txt, Facility.txt, RacialTraits.txt, TechArea.txt, UkraTal_AI_General.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Changed - The following tech areas now have a paradigm requirement so that they do not show up in the Expected Results for races that can not research them: Hyper Optics, Hyper Optic Nerves, Telescopes, Neutron Weapons, Weapon Overloading Weapons, Ship Capture, AP Explosive Warheads, Organic Neutron Weapons, Organic Weapon Overloading Weapons, Ship Infestation, AP Explosive Spores, Dispel Evocation, Spelljammer Capture, AP Explosive Glyphs.
2. Changed - Planet Rebellion events now all have a time delay.
3. Added - Two Covert Ops Leak events added, one on Catastrophic severity and one on High severity.
4. Fixed - Various typos in Events.txt fixed.
5. Fixed - Ironwood Structural Supports now require tech area Ironwood Armor instead of Iron Armor.
6. Fixed - Iron Structural Supports and Flowsteel Structural Supports roman numerals increased by 1.
7. Fixed - Light Flowsteel Armor III for units now has 14 structure, rather than 28.
8. Fixed - Psychic Receptors VI now has roman numeral 6 instead of 3.
9. Fixed - Ukra-Tal now take Ice World Natives trait instead of Rock World Natives.
10. Changed - Psychometabolism tech area now has max level set to 2 instead of 6.
11. Changed - Summoning Circle Expansion - Radioactives facilities now renamed to Summoning Circle Expansion - Mana. Their names are now not too long for the in-game display.
12. Changed - Hardy Industrialist space yard facilities now cost 12000 resources instead of 10000.
13. Fixed - No remote mining components mention anything about decreasing asteroid/planet value (as they do not do so).
14. Fixed - Remote Farming Teams now mention that organics are teleported back to the empire, not minerals.
15. Fixed - Remote Mana Refining Teams now have more clear descriptions.
16. Changed - Codes for Organic vehicles now make more sense.
17. Changed - Bio-Interceptor is now just Interceptor.
18. Added - All fighters, mines, satellites and weapons platforms now have descriptions.
19. Changed - Infantry now has code of INF, so as to prevent any overlap with Interceptors.
20. Added - Mercenary ships now have the same descriptions as their non-mercenary counterparts.
21. Changed - Research cost of Polymeric Armor raised from 20000 to 30000.
22. Changed - Research cost of Advanced Armor raised from 40000 to 60000.
23. Changed - Research cost of Cellulose Exoskeleton raised from 30000 to 45000.
24. Changed - Research cost of Fibroin Weave raised from 60000 to 90000.
25. Changed - Research cost of Steel Armor raised from 20000 to 30000.
26. Changed - Research cost of Mithral Armor raised from 40000 to 60000.
27. Changed - Research cost of Adamantite Armor raised from 50000 to 90000.
28. Changed - Tritanium Armor is replaced with Cerametal Armor.
29. Removed - Removed "Standard" from the description of various armor tech areas.
30. Added - Metacreationist Enclave facilities, which are Space Yard Expansion-like facilities that apply to all resources, as well as generating a small amount of resources.
31. Changed - Boarding Parties now explicitly list their boarding defense values.
32. Added - Metabolist Boarding Parties, Metacreationist Boarding Parties, and combined Metabolist/Metacreationist Boarding Parties for the appropriate Psionic racial traits. Metabolists get 20% increased Boarding Attack ability. Metacreationists get 20% increased Boarding Defense ability.
33. Added - Aerial Race racial trait, which provides fighters with a 20% defense bonus and a 10% offense bonus. This trait only works for Physical and Organic races, not Magic races.
34. Added - Small Combat Sensors and Small ECM components now require 10 levels of Paradigm tech.
35. Changed - First 5 levels of Long Range Scanner facilities removed. Remaining 6 levels given Long Range Scanner - System ability, as the Long Range Scanner ability does not work on a facility. Facilities given Combat Modifier - System ability ranging from 0% to 5%.
36. Changed - Orbital Fighters now require Fighter Cockpit and Fighter Life Support.
37. Changed - Fighter Cockpit and Fighter Life Support components now require level 1 paradigm tech, rather than Fighers tech.
38. Added - Combat Sensors components now have AI Tag 06 ability.
39. Added - ECM compononents now have AI Tag 07 ability.
40. Changed - Religious Talisman is now Talisman of Zeal. It now only requires Death Ethos, Life Ethos, and War Ethos, all at level 6.
41. Changed - Fate Talisman is now Talisman of Fate.
42. Added - Efficiency Algorithm, Talisman of Zeal, and Talisman of Fate now have dummy AI ability tags.
43. Added - AI Tags.txt to keep track of all dummy tags used in the mod. Abilities.txt no longer lists the items using the AI Tag ## abilities. Note that Space Monster races should never be given any technologies other than their Monster Tech area.
44. Changed - Small ECM now has bonus of 5/10/15 rather than 10/20/30.
45. Changed - Fighter afterburners now provide attack and defense bonuses of 5/10/15/20.
46. Changed - Organics and Radioactives costs of Alter of Healing components reversed.
47. Changed - Minerals and Radioactives costs of Medical Bay components reversed.
48. Added - Sick Bay components, which have low Boarding Defense ability and high hit points. Designed as a defense against Neutron Cannons and Mental Shredders.
49. Changed - Self - Destruct Device is now 30 kT and has sturcture of 60. Also, its description no longer makes any reference to engines. It is also 3 times as expensive as it used to be.
50. Fixed - Mine Sweeper V now requires Mine Sweeping instead of Mines.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Anyone have any ideas how the mastery of the dark arts of Necromancy would benefit your empire?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Hmmm,

Well I have no idea if this can work but maybe a weapon that does little damage but has a negative supply usage (drains life energy and transfers it to your ship!), or reasonable damage and a little negative supply? Any idea if this would work? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Not sure about non weapon components but for facilites maybe make races with advanced necromantic ability have slightly better Intel generation (maybe even on the standard Rogue Training Camp), its not so bad to kill someone before interrogating them or even during http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

And of course better Troops (the non monster ones, they are already dead!) and boarding parties (higher tonnage to destroy)

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I really should wait longer before releasing patches... Teaser to follow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Version 0.14.07 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Demeanors.txt, EmpireNames.txt, Facility.txt, RacialTraits.txt, Settings.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt, Empire_Setup.html, Settings_Changes.html
1. Added - Mass Animate Dead tech area for Necromancy Mastery racial trait. It allows the Animation Necropolis, which increases reproduction in the system by 2 to 10 percent.
2. Removed - Space Commissar is no longer available.
3. Changed - Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 30000 research instead of 15000.
4. Changed - Advanced Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 45000 research instead of 15000.
5. Removed - Bio-Morphic Science tech area is no longer available. Abominition troop components do not work as originally intended.
6. Changed - Temporal Technology, Crystalline Technology, and Mechanoid Technology are now in group Racial Applied.
7. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Magic) tech area now requires Mithral Armor instead of Wooden Armor.
8. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Organic) tech area now requires Fibroin Weave instead of Membrane Layers.
9. Changed - Ramming damage to both the attacker and the target reduced by 50%.
10. Changed - AI Human Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 170 to 250.
11. Changed - AI Computer Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 250 to 300.
12. Changed - Home System Percentage Value With No Spaceport raised from 25 to 50.
13. Changed - Created Storm Maximum Obscuration Level raised from 2 to 5.
14. Changed - Settings_Changes.html in the Help folder updated to reflect changes to Settings.txt.
15. Fixed - Typo in description of Organic Race trait.
16. Added - Empire_Setup.html in the Help folder now lists Mobile Industrialists and Aerial Race racial traits in the Racial Trait Index.
17. Added - Warrior Spirit Binding components and Spirit Binding tech area available to Necromancy Masters. These components function like Neural Combat Nets, allowing all ships in the fleet to function with the experience of the best ship in the fleet.
18. Changed - Soldier Gear and Metabolist Gear (Magic) now use image 1736 instead of 271.
19. Changed - Riot Gear and Metabolist Gear (Physical) now use image 925 instead of 271.
20. Fixed - Metabolist Nucleon now uses image 312 instead of 271.
21. Changed - Monster Collars now use image 1710 instead of 270 or 271.
22. Changed - Code for Soldiers vehicle is now SLD instead of BT.
23. Fixed - Some ability descriptions for Space Monster ships now make more sense.
24. Changed - Space Monster vehicles are now named "Space Monster" instead of "Monster" to prevent overlaps with Magic race fighters.
25. Changed - Friggen HUGE Beast is now Colossal Space Monster. Big Space Monster is now Large Space Monster. Giant Space Monster is now Huge Space Monster.
26. Added - Space Monster ships now have descriptions.
27. Changed - Huge Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 6 instead of 2.
28. Changed - Colossal Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 7 instead of 6.
29. Changed - Basic Bridge now uses image 1. Bridge now uses image 252. Flag Bridge now uses image 251.
30. Changed - Flag Bridge is now in family 7210 instead of 5.
31. Added - Flag Bridge components for Organic and Magic races.
32. Changed - Added and removed various entries in Demeanors.txt.
33. Added - Added various fantasy based names to EmpireNames.txt.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sadly, it would not work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was considering giving them a better Planetary University facility, with slightly improved research capabilities. Nothing beats being able to tap into the knowledge of countless dead researchers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif They do have some better intel projects already.

There are some things added in the latest development Version. Check the previous post to find them.

[ May 31, 2004, 21:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Fyron,
A heads up about a little problem I noticed. I was just using the latest Version (0.14.06) and the 'Raiding Parties V' on one of my designs got upgraded to 'Metabolist Raiding Parties II' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . A slight problem since their not as good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . But besides that small niggle I like them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .


Hmm I've just got 'Psionic Raiding Parties I' and they have replaced MBP II's which are better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . Also the description of the Organic construction ability of the 'Metacreationist Enclave I' has a duplication in it.

[ June 01, 2004, 20:20: Message edited by: XenoTheMorph ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I assume you have the Metacreationist and Psychometabolist traits? Otherwise there are some major bugs... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Well that is what happens when all raiding parties are in the same family. In a future Version (0.15.00), I will be able to arrange them so that upgrades should not place worse parties in place of better ones by mixing the various levels around. I could not do this in this Version because inserting the new raiding parties in the middle of the file would break savegame compatibility.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Ahh now it all makes sense! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Adamant 0.14.07 released!

This Version features a brand new missile system.

You can get the mod from the Adamant Mod Web Site. The Adamant Mod Lite file will suffice as a patch.

Version 0.14.07 - 26 June 2004:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Demeanors.txt, EmpireNames.txt, Facility.txt, RacialTraits.txt, Settings.txt, StellarAbilityTypes.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt, Empire_Setup.html, Settings_Changes.html
1. Added - Mass Animate Dead tech area for Necromancy Mastery racial trait. It allows the Animation Necropolis, which increases reproduction in the system by 2 to 10 percent.
2. Removed - Space Commissar is no longer available.
3. Changed - Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 30000 research instead of 15000.
4. Changed - Advanced Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 45000 research instead of 15000.
5. Removed - Bio-Morphic Science tech area is no longer available. Abominition troop components do not work as originally intended.
6. Changed - Temporal Technology, Crystalline Technology, and Mechanoid Technology are now in group Racial Applied.
7. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Magic) tech area now requires Mithral Armor instead of Wooden Armor.
8. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Organic) tech area now requires Fibroin Weave instead of Membrane Layers.
9. Changed - Ramming damage to both the attacker and the target reduced by 50%.
10. Changed - AI Human Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 170 to 250.
11. Changed - AI Computer Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 250 to 300.
12. Changed - Home System Percentage Value With No Spaceport raised from 25 to 50.
13. Changed - Created Storm Maximum Obscuration Level raised from 2 to 5.
14. Changed - Settings_Changes.html in the Help folder updated to reflect changes to Settings.txt.
15. Fixed - Typo in description of Organic Race trait.
16. Added - Empire_Setup.html in the Help folder now lists Mobile Industrialists and Aerial Race racial traits in the Racial Trait Index.
17. Added - Warrior Spirit Binding components and Spirit Binding tech area available to Necromancy Masters. These components function like Neural Combat Nets, allowing all ships in the fleet to function with the experience of the best ship in the fleet.
18. Changed - Soldier Gear and Metabolist Gear (Magic) now use image 1736 instead of 271.
19. Changed - Riot Gear and Metabolist Gear (Physical) now use image 925 instead of 271.
20. Fixed - Metabolist Nucleon now uses image 312 instead of 271.
21. Changed - Monster Collars now use image 1710 instead of 270 or 271.
22. Changed - Code for Soldiers vehicle is now SLD instead of BT.
23. Fixed - Some ability descriptions for Space Monster ships now make more sense.
24. Changed - Space Monster vehicles are now named "Space Monster" instead of "Monster" to prevent overlaps with Magic race fighters.
25. Changed - Friggen HUGE Beast is now Colossal Space Monster. Big Space Monster is now Large Space Monster. Giant Space Monster is now Huge Space Monster.
26. Added - Space Monster ships now have descriptions.
27. Changed - Huge Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 6 instead of 2.
28. Changed - Colossal Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 7 instead of 6.
29. Changed - Basic Bridge now uses image 1. Bridge now uses image 252. Flag Bridge now uses image 251.
30. Changed - Flag Bridge is now in family 7210 instead of 5.
31. Added - Flag Bridge components for Organic and Magic races.
32. Changed - Added and removed various entries in Demeanors.txt.
33. Added - Added various fantasy based names to EmpireNames.txt.
34. Added - Space-Time Flux Weapons tech area, which allows Focal - Implosion Arrays.
35. Added - Strike Missiles, Hardened Missiles, Decoy Missiles, Phased - Polaron Missiles, Graviton Missiles, Longhorn Missiles and Chaff Missiles. Also added Organic and Magic Versions of said missiles.
36. Changed - Capital Ship Missiles are now Thermonuclear Missiles.
37. Fixed - Satellite remote mining components are now in a different family so that upgrading a ship will not replace remote mining components with satellite Versions.
38. Fixed - Fighter Versions of Clawed Appendages are now in family 10023 instead of 8761.
39. Changed - Gravitational Weapons tech area now costs 10000 instead of 5000.
40. Added - Magic Weapons - Sonic tech area for Magical races.
41. Changed - All references to mephits being "demons" have been replaced with "creatures" instead.
42. Changed - Seeking Parasites now require 100 supplies to fire, rather than 25.
43. Changed - Descriptions of Hyper Optics tech areas are now more precise.
44. Changed - Descriptions of Neutron Weapons tech areas now reference killing crew rather than damaging boarding parties.
45. Fixed - Several warp point abilities of the turbulent type had extraneous 0s, leading to 10x the intended damage.
46. Changed - Warp Point - Turbulence ability of 650 reduced to 150.
47. Changed - Warp Point - Turbulence abilities are now labeled as minor, moderate, or major damage.
48. Removed - Warp Points with the ability Sector - Sight Obscuration are non-functional.

[ June 26, 2004, 22:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Wonderfull Fyron!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I was getting worried when nothing was posted on this tread for such a long time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just realized that I have to rewrite all the bits of AI ship design to include new missile system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Well at least they will be stronger now, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Probably. But my fingers will be stronger in typing for sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I am looking for new ideas on how to make the 3 race paradigms even more different from each other, to provide very different styles of play. Ideas anyone?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Take something significant away from one of them, or from two or them. Something like</font>

• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Repair</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Space Yard Components</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Shields</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Resupply Depots</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Plats</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Troops</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ship Capture</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">the ability to target planets</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">PDC</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">or something</font>

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You could also giveo nly one of them each of the following: Fighters, Seekers, Drones.

Whatever you do, the fun part will be making it balanced after you cripple their poor afts.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Organic races already lack shields. Many of those things would be too much to take away...

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Fyron,

you might want to check the Organic cost of 'Strike Parasites II' it is 2750 compared to 'Strike Parasites I' 200. Looks like you accidently added a zero http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I plan on revamping armor costs. At the moment, I am thinking of making light armors cost 1 resource per hit point, and heavy armors cost 2 resources per hit point. This essentially makes 10 kT of light armor cost the same as 10 kT of heavy armor... Heavy armor (10 kT comps) provides a stronger defense, as a higher percentage of hits will hit the armor instead of an internal. Light armor (1 kT comps) provides 2x as many hit points, however. What do you think of my cost scheme? Should I make one class of armor more expensive per kT than the other?

In other news, here is a tentative listing of the 0.14.08 history log:

Version 0.14.08 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: AI_Design_Creation.txt files, Components.txt, Facility.txt, TechArea.txt
1. Fixed - War Talismans and Death Talismans are now in general group Religious instead of War Ethos.
2. Fixed - Prismatic Spray I is now Prismatic Sphere I.
3. Fixed - AI empires no longer add 2 colony modules to colony ships.
4. Changed - AI empires no longer add quantum reactors to any vehicle designs.
5. Fixed - Somehow the old problem of AIs building homeworld facilities on colonies had resurfaced. It is fixed, again.
6. Fixed - Organic Seekers tech area now has max level 10 instead of 5.
7. Fixed - Decoy Missiles were incorrectly in family 2111 instead of 2112.
8. Fixed - Strike Parasite II now costs 275 organics instead of 2750.
9. Changed - Crystalline Armor with Shield Generation From Damage ability is now only available to Ships and Bases. The unit Crystalline Armor with no such ability is available to all units except mines.
10. Changed - Halved the hit points of unit Crystalline Armor to bring it in line with normal unit armor.
11. Changed - Unit Crystalline Armor is now in family 7214 so as to prevent unintended upgrades from ship Crystalline Armor.
12. Fixed - Crew Quarters had "jealously" used in their descriptions instead of "jealousy."
13. Changed - AP Mine Charges now state that they bypass hyper-dense armor, rather than all armor.
14. Fixed - Shipyard Expansion - Radioactives facilities now cost 6000 secondary resources, rather than 4000.
15. Changed - Clawed Appendages now have the damage type Quarter Damage To Shields.
16. Changed - Gaian Presence facilities now have roman numerals as part of their names.
17. Changed - Religious shrine facilities now have roman numerals as part of their names.
18. Fixed - Entertainment Networks and Temple Districts now have negative Planet - Change Population Happiness abilities instead of positive ones, so they no longer increase anger, but instead decrease it.
19. Fixed - Applied Political Science now has 5 levels instead of 3.
20. Changed - Resource Manipulation tech area now requires Biology in addition to Chemistry and Physics.
21. Added - Theoretical techs must be researched before higher than level 1 in basic resource harvesting technologies can be developed. The race paradigm's primary resource requires one level, whereas the other two resources require 2 levels.
22. Changed - Light armor now costs as many resources as it has hit points. Heavy armor costs two times as many resources as it has hit points. Organic armors cost 50% extra, due to regenerative properties.

[ August 04, 2004, 04:24: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Not that I expect any response at all, but here goes...

Thinking of adding research labs for bases. They would probably start off trading resources for research at a 1:1 ratio (reasearch generation starting off the same as base maintenance), and eventually improving to 1:2 or so. Sound like too much, too little, or just the right amount? For example, you might have a 1600 minerals cost lab that generates 200 research. Bases have maintenance of 12.5%, so it would cost 200 minerals per turn. At max tech, it would cost 1600 minerals and make 400 research.

What do you think of the idea of adding the intel generation ability to all bridge type components, with an amount of 5 or 10 or so? It would represent a bit of added flexibility on behalf of the covert ops agencies by having more ships that they can send spies out on and such. Alternatively, the ability could be added to Crew Quarters, so that larger ships can carry more covert ops agents.

[ August 05, 2004, 15:37: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

nice idea (had the same one), but still ressource generation from non-planets will not show up in the empire screen, which somehow sucks. Was the reason why i forget the idea and deleted it from my mod...

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I like those ideas, though I'd say go with the intel on bridges rather than crew quarters - small ships are MUCH more effective at passing by undetected than dreadnoughts, which makes up for the number of agents the DN could carry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

edit: btw, you know if those ex-nihilo resource generation abilities are affected by the appropriate racial traits or not?

[ August 05, 2004, 18:32: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I also like your idea and 1600 to 400 research sounds good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 05, 2004, 19:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. Research and intelligence points show up correctly though.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am fairly certain that, as with robo miners, they are not.

[ August 05, 2004, 20:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Trying to determine whether shield facilities make enough shielding or not... A Planetary Shield Array V makes 12500 shield points and costs 9k/3k/16k. A 200 kT Weapon Platform filled with Cerametal Armor I (starting armor tech on Medium start) has 1800 hit points and costs 975/0/0. The shield facility takes 8 turns to build, wheras you can easily build 2 WPs per turn. So that is 12500 hp in 8 turns for a shield facility, or 3600 x 8 = 28800 hp in 8 turns, assuming you have 3200 cargo spaces (a single cargo facility). So, it would appear that it is far better to build cargo facilities and add more WPs than it is to build shield facilities... How much shielding do you think shield arrays should generate? Or maybe I should further weaken unit armor?

EDIT: Decided to make shield arrays range from 10000 shielding to 50000.

[ August 06, 2004, 06:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

*Click here* to see the designs for the new research labs. Comments/opinions/suggestions?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

FYI

Magic/max tech (for example):
=============================
Base 1000 kt +AC5
2000/5000/4000 - 960 kt free
+ 2 RL3 = 5200/5000/4000
-----------------------------
Base 3000 kt + AC5
4000/13000/4000 - 2960 kt free
+ 7RL3 = 15200/13000/4000
-----------------------------
Base 5000 kt +AC5
6000/21000/4000 - 4960 kt free
+ 12 RL3 = 25200/21000/4000
-----------------------------

Large HW (12B/12B) + SC3 = 5250/*/*/turn
========================================
Base 1000 kt:
Empty: 1 turn
+ 2 RL3: 1 turn
-------------------------
Base 3000 kt:
Empty: 3 turn
+ 7 RL3: 3 turn
-------------------------
Base 5000 kt:
Empty: 4 turn
+ 12 RL3: 5 turn
-------------------------
\* AC5 - Autonomous Costruct V
\* RL3 - Research Lab III

So as you see, in this case building time for RLs (apart from bases) is 0 (+1 turn for 5000 kt base) which is wrong in my opinion.
In Last case you get 4800 research in 5 turns, which is far better that 5 Research Labs V (2500) without system improvements and racial modifiers, and this is wrong too. Imho, orbital research shouldn't be so much superiour compared to planetary labs.
These weird calculations are made for full-tech case, but I belive they're true for other ingame situations.

My humble suggestion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif is:

Name := Research Lab I
Description := High-Tech space-borne researching facility which develops new technology for a society.
Pic Num := 885
Tonnage Space Taken := 400
Tonnage Structure := 200
Cost Minerals := 1600
Cost Organics := 1600
Cost Radioactives := 1600
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := Five Per Ship
General Group := Research
Family := 7216
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Generate Points Research
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 200 research points each turn, unmodified by racial traits.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 200
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

*duh*

Name := Research Lab V
Description := High-Tech space-borne researching facility which develops new technology for a society.
Pic Num := 885
Tonnage Space Taken := 800
Tonnage Structure := 200
Cost Minerals := 1600
Cost Organics := 1600
Cost Radioactives := 1600
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None (or Ten Per Ship - restriction amount is increasing with comp advancement)
General Group := Research
Family := 7216
Roman Numeral := 5
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 1 := 5
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Generate Points Research
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 400 research points each turn, unmodified by racial traits.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 400
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

edit: typos, typos...

[ August 06, 2004, 11:30: Message edited by: aiken ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Man I have to say that for the first time in the history of my time with SEIV, I am lost. I am utterly completely and totally lost. I guess it is the side effect of being to tired to realy be able to comprehend what it is you just posted. Or it could just be that it is 4:26 am on 8-04, and all the numbers you just posted coupled with my numbers, and I just messed me right the hell up.

Something really needs to be done about this "Just One More Click" addiction that comes with SE IV. Seriously.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A warning label for the demo?

WARNING: this game is NOT suitable for students, interns, apprentices, or anyone else who is expected to pass tests on a regular basis. Do not think about SEIV strategys while operating heavy machinery. Do not begin learning SEIV without first making arrangments for someone to check on you daily. If you find that your game has continued for more than 36 hours straight then you should consult a physician immeadiately (Do NOT show him the game!)

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed Aiken.

Out of the options of Fyrons earlier post with “research from resource expenditure” - I also chose the most costly (1 from 4); however, from 12+ is wise indeed.


We need to look for the possibilities of Tech-ing out before the game is even near completion - if research returns are too great. Moreover, will the need then arise to compensate with mundane and/or even more over redundant techs to fill excessive research accumulations.

I have no doubts in Fyrons creativity for fresh and crisp new Tech generations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif so *more* may be very interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ August 06, 2004, 16:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Like research facilities, I would prefer to keep them costing only the primary resource. Also, I don't want them to be variable size with tech level (certainly not increasing), as that makes upgrading designs a hassle. I could make them cost 3200 minerals. That would both increase the build time and halve the research they make per resource...

Also, keep in mind that using them on larger bases is not really much more efficient, as you spend about the same amount of resources on Command & Control components per kiloton of base anyways.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Then don't forget that Magical and Physical bases require more organics than minerals (and 0 rads) while Organic bases require more minerals than organics (and 0 rads still).
According to this, Magical and Physical RLs should cost 3200 minerals, but Organic RLs should cost 3200 organics.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure, unless you're using master computers on really big bases - then it's significantly more profitable and effective.

And you still should consider limitation of RL's number per base: 2 massive bases filled with RLs have same research income as fully developed large scientifical planet (1 SY + 19 RC V). It's a research cheat, imho.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Magic races have secondary resource costs more evenly distributed between minerals and organics accross the board than physical and organic races do (for their secondary resources). That 4000 minerals doesn't make much of a difference overall for the huge magic base...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was comparing different sized bases...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And cost around 10000 resources (or more) per turn to maintain, each. So that is basically changing a fully developed resource planet into a fully developed research planet... Also, it costs about the same to build a large number of smaller bases to generate the same amount of research...

[ August 06, 2004, 17:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Sorry, I'm especially dumb today, but anyway I can't understand a sense of this:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do system and planet happiness modifiers work different?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes. System happiness can not take a negative value. Positive decreases anger levels, thus increases happiness. For planet happiness ability, a postive amount increases anger every turn, thus decreases happiness. A negative amount decreases anger every turn, thus increases happiness. It is just like Happiness.txt values. Note that the game stores an anger level variable, not a happiness level. The planet happiness ability functions identically to the Happiness.txt file, whereas the system happiness ability is backwards.

Do you still think research labs are too productive, given their maintenance costs?

[ August 06, 2004, 17:57: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was comparing different sized bases...

Small Astral Base + 1B+5LS+2CQ+2RL: 7850/4675/700 + 400 research
Massive Astral Base + 1 AC + 12 RL: 38400/21000/4000 + 4800 research
-------------------------------------
MassiveBase/SmallBase = 4.89/4.49/5.71 + x6 research. It's always (well most time) more profitable to have big freaking base than small.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And cost around 10000 resources (or more) per turn to maintain, each. So that is basically changing a fully developed resource planet into a fully developed research planet... Also, it costs about the same to build a large number of smaller bases to generate the same amount of research... [/qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maintanence for hi-tech Massive Base is about 5000/2700/500 per turn (cost 38400/21000/4000 and 13% maint.). So 10000 maintanence is for 2 bases. Then, large hi-tech mining planet can generate 24700 minerals per turn (19 mineral extractors IX) => it can support 4 massive research base (9600 research). Large planet with 19 RC V can generate 9500 research per turn. Well, seems about equal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
It's means that orbital research is a viable alternative to planet-based research! Now it will possible to reduce Intelligence to 50 for 2100 free RP, hmm. Do you think it worths to try?

[ August 06, 2004, 18:14: Message edited by: aiken ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I was talking about with the doubled cost, at 3200 minerals. That comes to 60800 minerals for the 19 research labs alone, with 7600 maintenance.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Now to compare different hull sizes.

As a basis of comparison, use standard 10 kT LS and CQ. Fill bases with minimum C&C comps, nothing else.

Small base:
80 kT used, 8% of hull used for C&C comps
2150/5400/2100, total 9650
9.65 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

Large base:
200 kT used, 6.7% of hull used for C&C comps
5750/15800/5300, total 26850
8.95 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

Massive base:
320 kT used, 6.4% of hull used for C&C comps
9350/26200/8500, total 44050
8.82 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

The large base is definitely more efficient in terms of C&C than the small base, by a small margin. The massive base is still more efficient than the large base, but just barely. Using large bases, you pay a little bit more overall, but have more SYs to use in the end... And you get to build them faster, to get a bit of extra boost on research due to having labs operational sooner than when building massive bases.

[ August 06, 2004, 18:41: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Now with master computers (lvl 5).
massive base 5000 kt:
40 kt used, 0.8% of hull used for c&c comps
6000/21000/4000, total 31000
6.2 resources/kt used for hull and c&c comps

Comparision: 1.0-6.2/9.65 = 0,55 (55% better ratio for massive base). Now, who in their mind will use LS/CQ for research bases?
Yes with small bases you get your research immediatly, but it worth to wait 5 turns to get 16% more research for the same price (building time).

Edit: with tweaked SY rate massive base can be built in 4 turns.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep, I've made a mistake (as always) with calcs for massive bases, sorry.

Costs:
Massive astral base - 5000/20000/0
1 AC V - 1000/1000/4000
12 research labs V (you can't put more on 5000 kt base) - 3200/0/0 x12 = 38400/0/0
Result - minerals: 38400+1000+5000 = 44400; org: 20000+1000 = 21000; rads: 0+0+4000 = 4000
Total - 44400/21000/4000
Maint. ~ 5700/2700/500

And you still can easily support 4 bases (48 labs) with 1 resource planet, so my conclusion is true.

[ August 06, 2004, 19:09: Message edited by: aiken ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

So what would be your suggestion? Research labs still have to be useful...

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

For the more evil races out there, I am going to add slave labor camps. Trying to decide on their stats. Keep in mind that the unhappiness will stack, so 10 SLCs will cause 10x as much anger as 1 SLC. Assume a Mineral Miner produces 800 minerals per turn for all examples. Two possibilities are as follows:

a) 10% more productive, +2 anger per turn

With this, building a max tech Entertainment Network (-10 anger per turn) will balance out 5 SLCs. 5 SLCs make 4400 minerals per turn. 6 Mineral Miners make 4800 minerals per turn. Alternatively, you could build 10 troops per SLC to balance out the anger. So, 60 troops balance out 6 SLCs, which make 480 more resources per turn than 6 Mineral Miners do.

b) 10% more productive, +1 anger per turn

With this, building a max tech Entertainment Network (-10 anger per turn) will balance out 10 SLCs. 10 SLCs make 8800 minerals per turn. 11 Mineral Miners make 8800 minerals per turn. Alternatively, you could build 5 troops per SLC to balance out the anger. So, 55 troops balance out 11 SLCs, which make 880 more resources per turn than 11 Mineral Miners do.

What do you think should be done? Slave Labor Camps need to have an advantage over Mineral Miners, without being way too much of a burden...

[ August 07, 2004, 22:10: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">FYI only

Fyron when AIC was first released a few Years ago, as you may recall it also included Slave Camps that would yield extra Resources and IIRC that had a 2 to unhappy (Balanced by other positive Happy Facilities).

However, some felt that it may be insensitive so I dropped the Slave Camps immediately.

Call to power also had a Hugh out cry against their Slavers as well, as I later found out.
I was very satisfied the right thing was done when I droped the Camps.
- - -
AIC always had unhappy Planet modifiers on the AIC Intelligence Agency (2u) and Citizen Databanks (1u) and this is balanced by System and Planet happy facilities such as AIC Urban Centers, Universities, Medical Facilities, Military Barracks (5h), etc. and has work very well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 07, 2004, 02:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Economic slavery has been a large part of human history for millennia. It is a part of a very large number of sci-fi universes. So are many other very evil things.

There are many items in stock SE4 that could be said to be just as, if not far more, insensitive. Conditions damaging bombs are insensitive to the Japanese that had atomic bombs dropped on them in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Plague bombs are insensitive to the native American tribes that had diseased blankets given to them to so that they would be infected and die by the US military. Hell, they are insensitive to all native Americans, due to Europeans bringing various diseases over to the Americas, wiping out 90% of the native populations. Napalm bombs are insensitive to the people that had friends and/or family killed in any of dozens of cities that had napalm dropped on them to set them on fire and kill civilians during World War II. Stellar manipulation devices that destroy stars or planets, create black holes, etc. are extremely insensitive, as they are weapons of extreme mass destruction. Should we remove all of these things too?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

FYI only

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I have to agree with Fyron. Somewhere, someone's grandma was killed by slipping on a banana peel. I still wouldn't ban banana peel jokes.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

So now to change subject... what facilities do you think would make the people unhappy to have near them (on the same planet)?