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- - The Star Trek Mod - v1.9.7.5 (Oct 07) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=21042)

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

Thanks, that was some very helpful info. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I had not idea about the history of the tholian emblem. LOL. Too bad SOAB was canceled, it wasn't that bad of a series. Kinda reminded me of Babylon 5 crossed with Firefly and BSG.

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

Quote:

203) Shield Mount Scaling
"Light Shields" are no-brainers:
e.g. Bio-Electric Field II
"light" version is 50% size, but 75% dam res, 80% shielding, same
leakiness and regen, 80% costs.
Should be 80% size as well (20kt => 15kt instead of 10kt), otherwise
I would always prefer 2 light to 1 normal shield
(same space, 150% dam res, 160% shield)

I am really having a problem understanding this one. What i gather is that two Light Shields are better than 1 Standard Shield but cost less and take up less space?

Could you please explain this issue in greater detail. I am just not having any luck wrapping my mind around it. Perhaps I am just too tied.

Quote:

Long Name := Light Shields (Ship)
Short Name := LT Sh Mt
Description := Mount reduces the strength and cost of shields
Code := LT
Cost Percent := 80
Tonnage Percent := 2
Tonnage Structure Percent := 80
Damage Percent := 100
Shield Percent := 80
Supply Percent := 100
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 801
Vehicle Size Maximum := 3200
Comp Family Requirement := 11
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Vehicle Type := Ship
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Shields
Tech Level Req 1 := 1

Long Name := Standard Shields (Ship)
Short Name := ST Sh Mt
Description := Mounts provides standard shield cost and strength
Code := ST
Cost Percent := 100
Tonnage Percent := 2
Tonnage Structure Percent := 100
Damage Percent := 100
Shield Percent := 100
Supply Percent := 100
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 100
Vehicle Size Maximum := 800
Comp Family Requirement := 11
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Vehicle Type := Ship
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Shields
Tech Level Req 1 := 1

Cost Percent := 80
Tonnage Percent := 2
KT size of shields are 1000 so this one would cost 20kt.
Tonnage Structure Percent := 80
The TS is 15KT so at 80% of 15kt the reduce TS % would be around 12kt. It is weaker and that is the way it should be right?
Damage Percent := 100
Shield Percent := 80
Shield Generation is 35. So the actual Shield Generation would be about 28.

Cost Percent := 100
Tonnage Percent := 2
again about 20kt in size
Tonnage Structure Percent := 100
Full tonnage structure of 15kt
Damage Percent := 100
Shield Percent := 100
Full Shield Generation at 35

Two LS would be 40kt, with a TS of 24, and provide 56 Shield Generation at 80% cost.
Two SS would be 40kt, with a TS of 30, and provide 70 Shield Generation at 100% cost.

This is what I am coming up with and I really am not seeing your POV on regarding this issue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

So fat this is what I have been able to do thanks to Arralen's report. I have a lot more to do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Quote:

Star Trek Mod v1.9.6.3

1. Fixed Resource Stations will now use Resource Station images
2. Fixed Vehicle List Overrides should now be working
3. Fixed Assault is not correctly spelled throughout the component list
4. Fixed Large, Heavy, and Massive Reactor Mounts now include Phased Energy Cannons.
5. Changed EM Cannon I - V to Electromagnetic Cannon I - V
6. Changed ECM Weapons to EM Weapons in TechArea file
7. Change ECM Weapons to EM Weapons for Electromagnetic Cannon I - V
8. Changed Armor I - III Tonnage Space Taken from 10 to 5
9. Changed Armor I - III Tonnage Structure to 20/25/30
10. Changed Reflective Armor I - III Tonnage Space Taken from 10 to 5
11. Changed Scattering Armor I - III Tonnage Space Taken from 20 to 10
12. Changed All Race Armor's Tonnage Space Taken from 10 to 5
13. Added Organic Armor I - III for Race 8472
14. Added 8472 Armor to TechArea file
15. Added 8472 Armor to 8472 Research file
16. Updated Tech Tree

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

I see that the Sat mount is reducing the size of the CSM (Seeker) from 20kt to 10kt but it also reduces the damage rate from 50 to 25. It also increases the range.... very odd behavior for SEEKER. I didn't think this was possible. Must be an SE IV bug. I am going to added a Comp Family Requirement to the Satellite mount and hopefully that will prevent this CSM bug.

Quote:

205) Capital Ship Missiles
- DON'T DO DAMAGE TO PLANETS (1% to hit, 1 point of damage)

Hum, (Weapon Target := Ships\Planets) so they should be damaging planets. If they are not, then I don't know what the problem could be.

Quote:

- fit into small hulls by the dozens .. that's not 'capital'; this makes early Small Satellites
very powerful

I modeled them after a missile battery system. I figured the size of satellites would keep them in check.

Quote:

- suck => Torps are equal, with "Large Reactor Mount" way better
- have same size as beam weapons (20kt), but 3 times the damage
resistance (30 instead of 10)

I am not following you on this one. Could you please be a bit more specific about this issue. Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Quote:

They shouldn't fit into Scouts, Small Sats, etc.
Damage and range should be considerably higher, especially considering the high research cost.
(maybe +50/+75%)

What shouldn't fit into scouts and small sates? CSM's or Torpedo's? Could you be a bit more specific about this issue? I am not following your train of thought here.

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

Well I added the Comp Family Requirement to the Satellite mount and then added only four beam weapons to the list. No Capital Ship Missile.. Yet it still is present in the mount. I don't get it. This should have prevented the mount from working on the CSM.

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

Quote:

1. Fixed Resource Stations will now use Resource Station images
2. Fixed Vehicle List Overrides should now be working
3. Fixed Assault is not correctly spelled throughout the component list
4. Fixed Large, Heavy, and Massive Reactor Mounts now include Phased Energy Cannons.
5. Changed EM Cannon I - V to Electromagnetic Cannon I - V
6. Changed ECM Weapons to EM Weapons in TechArea file
7. Change ECM Weapons to EM Weapons for Electromagnetic Cannon I - V
8. Changed Armor I - III Tonnage Space Taken from 10 to 5
9. Changed Armor I - III Tonnage Structure to 20/25/30
10. Changed Reflective Armor I - III Tonnage Space Taken from 10 to 5
11. Changed Scattering Armor I - III Tonnage Space Taken from 20 to 10
12. Changed All Race Armor's Tonnage Space Taken from 10 to 5
13. Added Organic Armor I - III for Race 8472
14. Added 8472 Armor to TechArea file
15. Added 8472 Armor to 8472 Research file
16. Updated Tech Tree
17. Fixed Description of Satellite Mount
18. Changed Added Comp Family Requirement to Satellite Mount.
19. Changed Increased Damage At Rng for Small Rocket Pods I - III to make them more useful
20. Changed Energy Weapons Tech Requirement from Beam Weapons 5 to Beam Weapons 1 (To promote better AI Designs)
21. Changed Reduce cost of Cargo Niche to 10/0/0.
22. Fixed Bio-reclamation Resource Storage I now stores correct amount
23. Changed Increased Component Repair amount for Repair Yard I - III coomponents from (1,2,3) to (4/6/8)
24. Changed Doubled the Component Repair amount for all Repair Yard Facilities. They are now 6/8/10
25. Changed Increased Slipstream Drive range from 4 to 20
26. Changed Increased Min/Rad cost of Slipstream Drive from 2000 to 4000
27. Changed Added 200kt worth of Supply Storage to Mine Layer I - III, Mine Sweeper I - V and Satellite Layer I - III
28. Changed Set all but one Neutral AI atmosphere type to Oxygen.
29. Changed Set most Neutral AI races to Rock world with a few to Ice. No more Gas Gaints.

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

203) Shield Mount Scaling
The following values are from my test game (attached somewhere above, using 1.9.6.2 DE)
As one can easily see, 2x Light Shield is way superior to 1x Standard Shield, yet both use the same tonnage. Light Shield should use 80%, not 50% of the standard shields tonnage.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Bio-Electric Field III

standard shield light shield 2x light shield
(vs 1x SS)
Mount used ST Sh Mt LT Sh Mt LT Sh Mt
cost 35/120/50 28/96/40 {80%} 56/192/80
size 20 kt 10 kt {50%} 20 kt {100%}
dam res. 15 kt 12 kt {80%} 24 kt {160%}
Abilities 45 phased shield 36 phased{80%} 72 kt {150%}
6 redirect 6 redirect 6 redirect(?)
7 regen 7 regen 14 regen {200%}</pre><hr />

Torpedoes vs. Missiles
Have you fixed the fire rate of the Anti-Matter Torpedo? (List No. 206)
Can't find it in the fixlist, but may I just some glasses. Ok, I know I need some - just never got around to get me some. And the cheap ones you get everywhere look so ... awkward http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
With the fire rate of the torpedoes fixed, they are not 100% better then missiles any more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

One problem, though, is the "Large Reactor Mount" on Stations. It works on torpedos and makes an "Anti-Matter Torp I" do 45@10, while even a "CSM III" does only 50@7 => Torpedoes the ultimate weapon for space stations.
Oh - description says "increases range by 2", yet right-click info says "weapon range modifier +5" - and it does +5 on all direct fire weapons.
With +2 that would be 45@7 for the torps .. still better than an 'equally-teched' CSM but not as bad ;-)

Small Sats, Satellite Mount and CSM
It's 70% damage, not 50% for the Satellite Mount => 35 dam
And with a size of 10kt only, you can cram 4 missile systems into 1 satellite .. each one doing 35 damage @ 6 range .. in the early game, when everyone is running around in FFs (not even DDs) with very few armor/shields/PD.
The problem here is not the damage (in first place), but the number of missiles in a volley which cannot be defended against in the early game.

And then, it's CAPITAL ship missles and those very tiny small little satellites .. it's just feels wrong that a CSM does fit in there at all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CSM and torps in general
In stock SE4, missiles and torps are different branches on the tech tree. And drones are, too.
Yet, in StarTrek, torps are the follow-on tech to missiles. To re-create this in SE4, the tech tree would have to be change to start with missiles only and then later branch into torpedoes (short-medium ranged, high damage, not susceptible to PD) and drones (long ranged, very high damage, working like small ships). But I guess it's too late to change that in the mod, even if you wanted to.

But there's no need to be in (with,by? ..whatever) canon here. After all, the background story has changed quite a bit.

Nevertheless, I feel torps are too easy to get considering that they're superior to missiles. I would suggest branching the torps from the missiles somewhere around level 3-5. All the 'mayor players' (Federation, Klingons, every player race etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) could then (re-)develop the sophisticated torp tech, while the smaller races stay with the cheaper, yet way less effective missile tech. Drones already require quite some additional research effort and would be ok as they're now, IMHO.

Armor
IMHO there was no need the change the scattering and other 'special' armor, as those are IIRC still 'real armor' and hit first, therefore the original values would do fine. Or is this changed in the new version as well?

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

The problem here is not the damage (in first place), but the number of missiles in a volley which cannot be defended against in the early game.

I could make PD available sooner in the game?

Armor
IMHO there was no need the change the scattering and other 'special' armor, as those are IIRC still 'real armor' and hit first, therefore the original values would do fine. Or is this changed in the new version as well?

I can change them back, but I was thinking that armor should be uniform in size, but you make a good point, and no the only change made to these 'real armor' was to reduce the KT size.

As for shields, in the latest public version the LT is now set to 80% kt value. I used those values in my example above. Thank you for the help on this one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

Working out these AI issues is proving to be a real PITA. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif You make one change that fixes one issue but causes two more problems.

Re: The Star Trek Mod - New Version Available

Quote:

Atrocities said:
Working out these AI issues is proving to be a real PITA. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif You make one change that fixes one issue but causes two more problems.

Well if ya think it's hard now just wait till you start modding it for SE5 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif