Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

As for VPs, I had planned to put in 34 pre-placed ones and remove all the existing ones. Each capitol would have one plus there would be one quite near each capitol. This ought to give all players 2 VPs each right off if they can quickly get the one close to them. I was also going to examine the positions and put the second VP in the likliest spot that each player would want to build their second fort, or (far more attractive) just ask each wyrm where they want their second VP province. The victory condition would be to capture four more players worth of VPs, or 10.

This works only with pre-placed start conditions. One thing about random starts is the unbalance. In RAND, there are some starting spots that have immense tracts of unclaimed lands in many directions while other players are literally surrounded from the very start. Getting surrounded in this game might not be as bad as it is in RAND, for you might get some sympathy votes from the Council. However, being surrounded means you cannot hope to get your share of the neutrals early on and you will be small and weak for a long time.

I was also planning on eliminating all the preplaced sites in the special provinces, or just getting rid of the specials all together to make it more balanced. I don't think the actual pre-placed start locations on the map are all that unbalanced on Orania, though I could be wrong. I even think people perhaps ought to be able to request moving their start spot by one province in any direction if they want.

I too prefer provinces as a game setting. If not for the fact that merely seiging a fort gives you the province towards a victory goal, then provinces would be a no-brainer. Perhaps other people don't see this as a problem like I do. Perhaps we can simply increase the total provinces required to win to get past this issue.

There is one other possible victory condition that makes sense: NONE! A player merely claims they have the game won and puts it to a Council vote. This is the most thematic plan but will make for a VERY long game. If we have subs waiting in the wings for when people want to (or must) quit playing or simply disappear, then this might work.

Maybe we should have a vote on the related issues of victory condition and random starts and specials.

Morkilus - What is the funny connection in Orania? I will look into it and fix it.

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

As far as I could tell in a few tests yesterday, the random start positions are no different than the preset ones. IOW, the randomizing function seems to utilize the preset start locations anyway. The only random element is which nation goes where. So regardless, you're still going to have big tracts of land around some nations while others are all boxed in.

Edit: my bad, I was using OraniaWar for my testing. But anyway, you could still use the method below for randomizing without messing with the preset start locs.

Or, you could just randomize the start locations yourself outside of the game using your own presets. Write all the nation names and preset start locations on small pieces of paper. Put the nations in one hat and the starting locs in another. Shake. Pull a nation and then a start loc. VIOLA! Random start location #1. Repeat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

I like Panther's plans. I would *not* ask where people want VP#2, though. Do it yourself.

The prepositioned sites, I don't know...they aren't well distributed, but the map has such nice icons for them.

Win by council vote, I'd rather not go down that road!

In general, I think you ought to decide on reasonable settings and just start it. Trying to get consensus w/17 players would be time-consuming.

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

Panther - The "funny connection" in Orania is from 78 to 88; there is no border between the two, yet it is accessible in one step. I don't know if this is a problem, it is just annoying if you don't know about it/forget about it. I suggest you start the game with whatever settings you feel are fair, like djo says. I kinda like the flavor and special indies of the victory point provinces; gives me more to write about. I just sent my Pretender in! (my password in a separate email).

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

Knowing whether we're going with the preset positions or not will have an impact on my pretender design so I hope we have a decision soon. Not much time left!

Also, Panther, please tell me you've done away with the "Chillsick Swamp" in C'tis's regular starting position? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

You don't send me or anyone else your password.

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

Ok, here is the plan. We might as well keep it simple.

1. We will use random start positions. I will also take out all special provinces from the map and add in a lot of #nostart positions to try and spread out the nations.

2. Each capitol (and capitol alone) will have a single victory point. The victory condition will be 5 VPs, meaning you have to keep your own capitol plus take any 4 others. Capitols are notoriously hard to take, so it should be fairly difficult to do this.

How does this sound? Any big objections?

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

Panther, that sounds good to me. Thanks for putting this all together.

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

Sounds good.

Re: The Council of Wyrms - 2 spots open
 

Sounds...mmmm...about average. Go for it, I say.