Re: OT: US Pres election
 

First off you have heat from the fires which weakened the steel enough to allow the weight above the area of damage to push down enough to bend the remaining supports. Once the damaged steel gave an inch, gravity took the rest.

The next thing is that the plane didn't need to take out the supports, merely damage them enough to let gravity do the rest.

And this was damage caused by the sudden and quick halt of a jet liner slamming into a fix, immobile building.



We are a spoiled people, seeing so many big budget special effect films thrust upon us, we forget that the energy needed to destroy something is often far less then hollywood makes us think.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

Actually, I think if the big CIA wanted us to think that 9/11 was a terrorist attack to cover their "terror for 8 years plan", they would have made it much more hardly spottable that a simple "jet fuel wasn't hot enough to make the skyscrapers collapse". Just my opinion of course. Or maybe they did so, so now I think they wouldn't have... oh, never mind.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

I object to the contrived state of war we are in where there are no clear goals. And therefore no real way to win said war.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

There is a way to win this war, but the way we are doing it isn't working. Bush's strategy is keep throwing wave after wave "surges" of men at the problem until its fixed.

The way we need to win this war is by establishing power grids, running water, basic services and what not. You don't win an occupation by occupying the enemy's territory, you win it by keeping your enemy occupied. We should've organized companies in Iraq to hire iraqis to do the reconstruction and pay them a fair wage instead of outsourcing everything and building what we wanted only and paying 1000% over top-bid.

It goes back to an old saying in the West. Whiskey for drink'n, water for fight'n.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

One of the things I've read about Osama Bin Ladin is that he's spent a great deal of time and money making friends and helping people, to the point where a lot of people in the Middle East view him as something of a Robin Hood figure. He interacts with them, he helps them, he's one of them, and that's a big strength and power-base for him.

How much of that is the U.S. doing? How many of the actions that we've taken in the Middle East since the Gulf War started, that have put us in a really positive light? I'm sure a lot, but I'm worried about the blunt force and heavy handedness that's been employed. How hard are *we* trying to make friends with the "common people" in other countries? How much are we being viewed as "The Terrorist" over there?

I've read about how China is investing huge amounts of money in Africa, because it's one of the few places in the world that America and the European Union don't already have a lot going on in. Why don't we? There's incredible resources, incredible manpower, unstable governments, and we've got an African American running for office-and winning. It seems like something we should be doing, as a country, if only to make it more difficult for China.

The U.S. is real good at blowing stuff up and killing people in other countries, but we need to get better at making friends and doing business, world wide.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

The sad reality of the present is that our government is far more interested in disrupting the progress of civilization than helping it along.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

While I have in the past suspected the US government of conveniently going to war just before re-election time, Im not ready to suspect something on this scale even from the big W.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

A) He said he wanted be a war-time president.
B) He always felt ashamed of his father's inability to unseat Hussein.
C) He considered himself a divine messenger, a warrior of the apocalypse. I don't think he went to war expecting public opinion to clinch the election - he went to war despite that, for very very personal reasons.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

When I said disrupting the progress of civilization I'm referring to the sum of america's foreign policy since nixon.

As for Bush, He's done a fine job of stopping america's progress for a good long time.

Re: OT: US Pres election
 

A very large concern I have with the Republican party is their demonizing of intellectuals. What kind of society can we expect to have when a person is elevated because they have lesser ability?