Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Krsqk said:
Changing the order of advanced traits makes current EMP files obsolete.

I had a quick look at the .emp files... bunch of gobbledygook under Word - how does one check them? Only through the set up screen? Regardless of me understanding them, what difference does it make/how do the .emp files read that list?

SJ said:
Changing the order is feasible; 5000 point EMP files would be unusable, though.
I wonder how many EMPs would be affected, and how much work would it be to replace them?

Why would the 5000RP .emp file be unusable? Even though it would be some work to re-order, it would probably be worth it for clairity's sake (of course, having said that I now consider the fact that I've NO idea how much work would be involved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

-jimbob

Sorry guys, I've just no idea how the .emp work

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Well, the racial traits will all switch positions, and the checkmark that used to be on a (free) Lifestyle Trait will be on something more expensive. SE4 will not let you load the EMP to edit it, claiming it has spent more points than are allowed.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Ok, so then what one would need to do is the following:

i) change the order of the Adv. Racial Traits to whatever order is wanted

ii) reduce the costs of all Adv. Racial Traits by knocking off the Last zero (ie 1500 --> 150) so that you won't get the errors. Maybe this will need to be knocked down to zero to be sure.

iii) open EMP files one at a time and re-allot the Adv. Racial Traits. (This will leave us with a large +ve excess of RP for the time being). Repeat until all are re-alloted. How does one do this for the neutral races?

iv) bring the RP costs back up to their normal cost in the file.

Yeah, that does seem like a chunk of effort, but boy would it ever be pretty! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Bug in v3.1b for PBW: Colony and Small Transport hulls are getting access to the Gun Nuts' "Large Nutty Mount", even for races who don't have the Gun Nuts trait.

Not a critical, game-breaking issue, but something odd is going on, maybe SJ should take a look ... if he isn't already. 8)

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Nevermind, I just figured out what was happening myself.

SJ, you silly goose, you forgot to specify the Tech Requirement for the Nutty mounts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Oh well. I've corrected my local copy, and uploaded that corrected file to the PBW server ( http://seiv.pbw.cc/Download/filelib/706/GunNutsFix.zip ) in case anyone needs it.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Pax, you silly goof.. have you ever stopped by my avatar forum? I deposited something there that I think you might like!

Cheers!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hey, Pax, you just uploaded an old Version to PBW...
I'd already fixed that, along with many other suggestions and changes.

It had fallen to page 2, so here is the link again:
Pirates & Nomads V3.1B - PBW

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I find the excessive build times for many items to be annoying to say the least, especially for PBW. Can we not boost the construction rates a tad?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

The everyday objects should be reasonably priced. You aren't trying to build these things at a colony with only 10M people are you?

To increase build rates, just add more people, or add a spaceyard expansion project.
Every 25M people gives you 1% more buildrate.

If you think training facilities are too expensive, try doing a retroseries, and don't go all the way up to 20%. Only galaxy-spanning empires can be expected to afford one that powerful.

[ February 08, 2003, 00:53: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hmm, just noticed that the Mini-Shield Generator I says it generates regular shields but the ability is phased shields like the other MSG's...

... and it sure seems strange for Mini-Shield Generators to require a higher level of Shield tech than Hardened Mini-Shield Generators... I know they are cheaper and they generate more shields, but it sure looks odd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

The hardened shields do require armor tech, while the mini shields don't. I'll fiddle it a bit to make it look better.

I will fix that description, thanks for mentioning it.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Also, the armored engines use the same pictures as the regular engines... can be confusing... why not use the fighter engine pics, those look armored...

Not to further delay that PBW game "Horrible Doom" though... what are they waiting on, even more bug fixes in P&N? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Well, I'd think that using the fighter engines would be pretty distracting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I have fiddled with the cultures for uniqueness and hopefully balance.

I've also gone through the weapons and sprinkled the double, half and quarter damage to shields damage types around, seeing as they work now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I also felt that, especially considering the new advantage with weapons variety it has, that the organic racial trait should be split.
I pulled the organic armors, and the medical labs, and merged them with the "living ships" trait.
What I have now, is two 1500 point organic traits; basically split into offensive and defensive.

I also took the time to make most ship beam weapons NOT target planets. The fighter Versions do target planets, for the most part.
I see this as accounting for atmosphere, and scale. Orbital beam weapons knock down a house or maybe just make the clouds glow. On a fighter strafing the city, it could bLast a few buildings and the damage would add up.
Antiproton beams definitely do NOT work in an atmosphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ships will need to pull out the supply sucking missile weapons, planetary napalm or limited-quantity fighters to glass worlds. Or drop troops.

...

I'm also going to add some repair drones if I have the time to work out the details... They will be less efficient than regular repair components, but useful if you have a ship crippled at a warppoint and can't afford to send a ship to rescue it, or if you want to "store up" repair capacity for use all at once.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

P&Nv3.1c PBW (zip)

I have decided to go ahead and reorganize the racial traits.
Regular, Pirate and Nomad are now all at the top, and the Advantage/Disadvantage pairs are all together.

I've also moved all of the Basic racial tech areas into a Category called "Racial Insight", separate from the theoretical, applied, and weapon tech categories.
That should help organize things a little bit.

Also, large supply storage bays had the same family as huge bays. That has been fixed, so they now both appear under "Show Latest"

[ February 19, 2003, 04:36: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Cool... I like the ship weapons not penetrating atmospheres... doesn't make much sense for barren worlds with no atmosphere, but eh, can't be perfect! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Gonna incorporate these changes into the PBW Version as well, then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Actually, that is the PBW Version.

The planetary weapons restrictions will probably have too big an effect on basic AI strategy, so I don't think I'll be including that feature in the Solo Version

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Is this the Version that Horrible Doom is going to use?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

dumbluck: Let's hope so, weren't we waiting for some sort of bugfixes in P&N for Horrible Doom to start? Or did the PBW admins just never get around to switching the game over?

SJ: Oops, didn't notice the PBW at the end of the Version name! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I've uploaded the file to PBW under "P&N (humans only)"

Its the same file as below.
Be sure to redo your EMP file, as the old ones won't work anymore.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hey, is it too late to jump into "Horrible Doom"? I'd love to jump into the game (depending upon the status of the non-gold PBW game of course)...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks SJ, I realize that it was probably a lot of work to re-do the races, but it'll sure look snazzy (I'll go download it and have a look)

-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Is there a link to what P&N is? Like I did for DevNull Mod at:

http://www.jeffleggett.com/DevNullMod.htm

Just curious...

Binford

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I haven't got a recently updated one, but the description linked below should give you the basics.
http://www.sneakybuffalo.com/phpBB2/...pirates+nomads

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Jimbob: Horrible doom currently has 1 empty spot, so grab it before it's taken! The game hasn't even started yet, so you will even get to design your race as you see fit! As to the non-gold P&N game, I assume you're refering to P&N on PBW, take 2. It is currently full, and on turn #76, so I'm afraid you'll have to learn to live with disappointment in that regard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

edit: Erm, what's the point of having supply storage 1 and 2 both be starting techs? They are identical, except that SS2 holds 250 more supplies...
3rd edit: Well, it looks like SJ is cursing my name as he fixes the few bugs I've found, so we maybe should wait for the NEXT Version...

[ February 20, 2003, 21:01: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Sorry guys, haven't been keeping up. Horrible doom will be starting soon. Let me just say, I love this mod!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

1) You are right that the supply tech should start one level lower.

2) No, large engines do not get armored Versions. They reduce the number of clicks you need, and can drastically reduce repair times. That was enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There is also a tech requirement missing from the DU autocannon IV.

I will be uploading the changes to PBW tonight. Are there any other bugs, questions or concerns before I do?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, nobody's stopping you from starting your own game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Yah, no sweat, I was actually talking about the P&N v1.6c or some such... it's for SEIV, not SEIV gold.

Now I just have to go and find my gold CD...

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

P&N v1.x is for SE4 classic and does not include QNP.
The latest Version of that is labelled "P&N Classic"

P&N v2.x is for SE4 classic, and includes QNP plus more of the newer features of P&N.

Only v3.x are for SE4 Gold.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

..."Gravy Gun"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

While yer at it, why not add "Ketchup Kannon" and "Mustard Musket"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Not to mention "Pickle Pulse", "Mayo Mace", "Chutney Chredder", etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seriously though, I was thinking the other day, "gee, wouldn't it be neat if P&N had other base race types other than regular, pirates and nomads... wonder what those could be, though?" I thought of "alternate reality" (like in Stars!) but since you can't have populations live on ships that wouldn't work too well... then again you did Nomads! Or "energy race"... But now the Gravy Gun gives me an idea for one... Cheese Heads! That's right, a place in P&N for all those cheesy technologies that come up in science fiction - your Stellar Converters, your Infinite Improbability Drives, your Wave Motion... oh wait they're already in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ... your Holly Hop Drives, and any more that anyone can think of! These guys would get all cheesy technologies instead of the regular techs... well it could be an attribute like Organic or Psychic but wouldn't it be more fun to have a whole race type built around cheesiness? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Slang for a nasty gravitational field based weapon. A small tribute to SchlockMercenary

See:
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20030215.html

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

And if you don't mind having to get in close ... the Gravy Gun is gravy. 8) With LOTSA lumps ... for the other side. Heh.

480 damage ... low-tech and 480 damage ... WOOOO!!!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

480 damage? Where?

I see 200 damage & 60kt, for 3.3 damage/kt/turn on the highest-tech one.

In fact, the number 480 only appears twice in the components.txt file... And that is for the rads cost of quantum engines (both armored and not).

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Here's the episode of Schlock where "Gravy gun" was first coined.

I recommend reading from the beginning, but not at work, unless your boss thinks it's OK for you to sit there laughing all day long.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Say, if you can't fire APB's into an atmosphere, why can you fire them OUT of an atmosphere... see, they can be mounted on weapons platforms!

{SJ gets mad at my finding all these little bugs and fires an APB in my general direction, along with several of the players from "Horrible Doom" who are waiting for the game to start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif }

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Because weapon platforms use special mounts and because the atmosphere gets thinner as you go up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The starting Station hull, and a Large Base Mount, give the Gravy Gun III the following damage set:

480 480 480 90 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Compared to the normal, un-mounted Gravy gun's:

160 30 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Mind you, the mounted GG takes up 120kT of space, but still ... to range 3, it's 4 damage per kT ... 8)

Sorry , I didn't mean to imply the gun did that in it's BASIC form.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They could be floating weapon platforms. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Then wouldn't they be satellites? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hmm, I wonder why Starbases don't get some sort of Colossal Mount now that Warstations get the Massive Mount...

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

No, satellites are orbital. "Floating" means floating in the atmosphere. Satellites "float" in space in orbit around the planet, not in the atmosphere.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Okay, so no APBs on platforms, and a super mount for starbases...

Anything else?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hey! Leave APBs on weapon platforms. Don't make WPs next to useless by severely restricting the weapons that can be on them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

APBs aren't the same uberweapon they were in unmodded SE4, and it is symmetrical, Fyron. APBs are supposed to be space-to-space weapons here.

Besides, there are a lot fewer things that can fire on platforms already. I think overall, platforms will be more powerful than before.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Actually, APBs should probably function as a conditions deteriorating weapon when fired on planets. All that anti-matter would cancel out a lot of ozone (or whatever equivalent gas is on a planet with a non-O2 atmosphere) as it entered the atmosphere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Matter-Antimatter annihilation is a one-to-one effect and extremely powerful per atom. Do you recall the sig involving the 1kg squirrel sig somebody once had? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The way I see it, the APB is going to be putting out almost unnoticable amounts of antimatter... (unnoticable that is, until it hits something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )
Then you get a nice fireball, but on the scale of poking holes in ships, not laying waste to the environment of a planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

I do not see antimatter being worth the trouble and expense for that type of job; not enough fallout, either. Better to just use a cheap 'ol dirty nuke (Radiation Bomb) and irradiate the place.

Edit: punctuation for clarity

PS: Feel free to disagree and convince me otherwise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 23, 2003, 02:27: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">WPs next to useless?

Say that again ... aftr I build some Flux Cannon WPs. 40K damage if I get you at the right range.

PER.

Heh.

Also note, missiles are, if used right, more viable in P&N than in stock SE4. Use the heavies ... about twice hte space, for about four times the PD resistance.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Still has http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Actually, aren't APB's even more of an uber weapon now - sure, they don't penetrate shields well, but if you throw in some shield depleters, you have one weapon that does 120 damage to shields in 20 kT, and another that does 120 damage to hull/armor in 30 kT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Of course, you do have to work the ratios right so you're not wasting any APB shots on shields or shield depleters on shieldless ships...

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Pax, please keep up on the conversation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Gravitic weapons are not available to all races, only those with Gravity Manipulation Trait. So, that is a very bad example. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

"you have one weapon that does 120 damage to shields in 20 kT, and another that does 120 damage to hull/armor in 30 kT"

True. 4 DMG/KT is a bit excessive given the shield sapping weapons.

Such are the dangers of adding new damage types without enough play testing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now that you've drawn my attention to it, the fighter-class APBs also appear to be missing a zero in their costs.

P&N PBW 3.1 R4.zip

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did also point out that missile armaments, of various sorts, are more viable in P&N than elsewhere. A Large WP with 5 Heavy Bombardment missiles packs a significant punch, especially given the amount of PDC/PDL needed to shoot each one down.