Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/...U67hM5tKw&s=19

Very nice near top shot of:

https://i.imgur.com/WNB7wF3.jpeg

In case icons need touching up, etc.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

For my Marine Buddy...

USMC Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle 30mm Autocannon (ARV-30) is to START a 2yr. competition to see who'll get the production contract.

So "GD" vs. Textron with 500 UNITS at stake with production to run from mid 2026 to 2032.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rototype_.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Officially in service this month the M117 GUARDIAN 250 units completely refurbished from USA stocks.

It has...
"It is equipped with an advanced armor system from IBD Deisenroth Engineering, a German firm known for its modular expandable armor packages. This includes ceramic composite applique armor for the exterior and a spall liner for the interior, offering robust protection against small arms fire, mine blasts, and Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs). The vehicle can transport up to eight infantry soldiers."

"The M1117 is fitted with a one-man non-stabilized turret which is armed with a 40mm automatic grenade launcher (MK19 MOD 3) and a .50-caliber machine gun (M2/M48) . This turret provides a full 360° rotation and can elevate up to 45°, allowing for versatile and effective firepower deployment."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...nian_army.html

Have a Happy St. Patrick's Day (Just a good legitimate day for a GOOD brew. :cheers:) because today internationally everyone is Irish and because he says so :sec: (Posted under duress this dude got a temper! OUCH!!! -see what I mean!?!)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

and do you think all of those "up to eight infantry soldiers" would be all on the inside/ all on the outside of both?

They keep doing things the game cannot handle as protected under armour carry capacity or carry capacity outside on the hull is determined by unitclass. It's one or the other not both

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y87TN7gro50


"Hold on tight boys this is gonna get bumpy" ( FOR ALL 9 OF THEM )

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

A team of 4 Commander, Driver, Gunner and 1 more internally.

UPDATE: Went back to review the Army Rec. ref. from my last post. I count 8 Ukrainian troops externally using hand and foot holds on the side of the vehicle. CARRY 012 (?)

These when first introduced were designed for MP and Security reasons.

The RECON role would come later.

The following is a post operational update on the M1117 GUARDIAN approved for public release in MAR. 21, 2001.

Pages 6-8 are pertinent to this discussion. I've "cherry picked" the following as they somewhat exceeded my expectations of this vehicle.

Page 6 Bottom:
"The vehicle provides protection from .50 caliber armor piercing rounds to the crew compartments and ammo storage areas.13 It provides airburst..."

Page 7 as it continues from "It provides airburst" as above: ..."protection from 60mm rounds at ten meters, and 155mm rounds at fifteen meters. Anti-tank mine protection is provided for up to twelve-pound blasts at each wheel and four pounds in the center of the vehicle." (That's really good for a vehicle of that size.)

Same Page in continuation:
"The vehicle mounts a fully enclosed Up Gunned Weapons Station (UGWS)
(Figure 3) 14 and is also referred to as the 40/50
turret." And...
"The M36E2 sight allows the gunner to engage targets at the MK19 maximum effective range of 2200 meters during day or night engagements. Turret improvements over the standard UGWS provide increased survivability and a reduced silhouette. Two banks of four electrically operated smoke grenade launchers are mounted on either side of the turret, firing forwards. "
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA387741.pdf

The history section starting on Page 20 I found very interesting especially on the British use of their LAV's in particular in OPS in N. Ireland.

Andy might find it interesting as I believe he served during the "Troubles".

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Count again. You forgot the guy on the front then there are four hanging off the left side and four more on the right side

It matters little either way. The Ukrainian version is getting a higher carry cap than any of the other nations that use it

I may give this unit it'S own formation and unitclass as it is ( so far ) only being used by 425th Assault Battalion and it appears NOT in a scouting capacity

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Missed that 9th guy, thought he was the gunner.

Regards,
Pat

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I just ran across this on MSN, a new version of the Bradley equiped with the Iron Fist active protection system.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...3f3add05&ei=45

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Sweden just announced a day or so ago that they're giving Ukraine all of their Pansarbandvagn 302 (pbv 302) APCs.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I was sure I had already put those into the UKR OOB but and put a guesstimate as to start date in Ukraine and end date in Sweden. The 302 adds another ammo type Ukraine does not use so guessing they might replace the 20mm AKAN with something else but I will wait and see with that but it APPEARS the 302 was the only vehicle left using that 20mm gun so their might be plenty of ammo to send along and we'll have to wait and see if the Ukrainians slap reactive bricks on the 302...

We'll also have to wait and see if "all" 302's means the EPbv 3022 FO as well..... guessing "probably"

https://www.government.se/press-rele...ritised-needs/

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Polish Borsuk very early stage WIP

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1717966427

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

This is the second version with the corrected intake grill placement.

3X normal

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718060169

Camo version

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718036021

Desert version

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718050944

Winter

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718059873

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Borsuk and Rosomak 2 has unified turrent here is my interpretation of icons of this vehicle. I add here all icons also for various variants of rosomak which I made for future version of SPMBT so fell free to use them if will be suitable.

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718118791

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Nice work Blazejos.
Regarding the Borsuk, when should it enter service with the Polish forces?

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

This tanknet thread is about the Polish kit, so may be worth a read?

https://www.tanknet.org/index.php?/t...odernizations/

It started in 2013, so wil be a long read:)!

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

BWP Borsuk first mass produced vehicles will be introduced in 2024 but don't know when probably closer to end of the year.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...YU201-1007.jpg

Short movie with Borsuk during training
https://youtu.be/PVxJ7JgIANs

there are planed many variants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borsuk...hting_vehicle)

Borsuk - infantry fighting vehicle, equipped with the ZSSW-30 turret.
Oset - command vehicle.
Żuk - reconnaissance vehicle.
Gekon - armored recovery vehicle.
Ares - NBC reconnaissance vehicle.
Rak - 120mm self-propelled mortar.
Gotem - medical evacuation vehicle.
Jodła GTRI - Gąsienicowy Transporter Rozpoznania Inżynieryjnego, lit. tracked engineering reconnaissance transporter.
Jodła GTWI - Gąsienicowy Transporter Wojsk Inżynieryjnych, lit. tracked engineering transporter.
Jodła TMN - Transporter Minowania Narzutowego, lit. mine-scattering transporter. Meant to replace the IMS Kroton, its mine-scattering system will likely be based on that of the Baobab-K.
Jodła PTI - Pływający Transporter Inżynieryjny, lit. amphibious engineering transporter. Will replace the PTS-M, likely to be a completely new hull using Borsuk components.

Borsuk hs the same turret ZSSW-30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSSW-30 as so called Rosomak 2 correct name Rosomak ZSSW-30 they are in regular usage and production since December 2023. https://defence24-pl.translate.goog/...x_tr_hist=true

https://cdn.defence24.pl/2021/10/07/...LMYY.pbem.webp

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I plan to update the games Rosomak 2 turret to the one I built for the Borsuk before the update is released

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Slightly mentioning that ZSSW-30 is automatics turret without crew and without crew hatches on top of turret ;)

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Ah ! I see now. The only photos I had found of it up to 5 minutes ago were not top down but I have a good one to work from now

https://armyrecognition.com/template...-37323dbf.jpeg

I will adjust accordingly

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

That may be usefully Borsuk 3D model I used this when I draw this icons from post before ZZSW-30 is there. You can always use some parts of my icons if you draw your own version :o

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718744041

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

V3

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718751317

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1718751611

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bY05as-vA

Good video related to the French CT-40 cannon used by the Ajax which is claimed in this video to enter service this year ( we will wait and see......)

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

See there has been discussion of the Polish BORSUK but not sure what the intentions are for a START Date. So, checking my "newspapers" before work and fresh for the press is the following which might alter the date.
"Unofficial sources have indicated to Defence24 that negotiations for the executive contract concerning the purchase of the first 159 Borsuk (Badger in English) infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) will begin in early August 2024. This procurement will cover the needs of two mechanized infantry battalions, each with 58 vehicles, plus additional vehicles for training purposes."

"Prototypes of the Borsuk began their first fire, endurance, and technical tests in September 2020, with the aim of delivering the first serial production vehicles by 2023/2024."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news...hting-vehicles
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/l...ifvs-exclusive

Obviously, that's not possible as the contractional process isn't completed. They'll probably not going to have enough to field a unit much before the end of 2025/OR early 2026.

Poland uses a multi-tier system in which the "executive contract" level will normally run for 2 to 4 levels before procurement of a system can begin.
"For instance, in the case of the Chunmoo Multiple Rocket Launcher System (MRLS), Hanwha Aerospace signed a framework contract and two executive contracts with the Polish Armaments Agency."
https://www.asdnews.com/news/defense...auncher-system

I figured I'd better add something to "quantify" the numbers.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Interesting, a bit of Nork kit I had no knowledge about, and apparently being used now by Russia in penny numbers?

https://www.twz.com/news-features/no...ing-in-ukraine

Bulsae-4 - I wonder what versions 1-3 were, possibly the local name for the regular BRDM sagger, spandrel etc. units?.

An NLOS missile for the Norks? - whoda thunk it:D!

Edit - the "bulsae" name appears to be the missile name and not the carrier. I know it's wiki, but a starting point for research:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulsae_ATGM

So the name is for the missile and not the carrier vehicle. end edit

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Now added to the Nork and Ork OOB's

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

https://i.imgur.com/c7qMZlG.jpeg
AFU VAB in Kursk with a cope cage set up.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Ukraine is to receive all 239 UNITS of SWEDENS PVB 302 APC's.

First:
SWEDEN/CHANGE/PVB 302/UNIT 054/CREW 3/END DEC 2014//

UKRAINE/ADD/PVB 302/COPY/SWEDEN/MODIFIED/PVB 302/UNIT 054/START AUG 2024// Will assume frontal protection to include against 20mm. The PVB 302 was updated as follows in series A, B and C (The final version to serve in the Swedish army and what the Ukraine will be getting. The "ArmyRec" website breaks each series down.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news...eet-to-ukraine
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...66d68310b&ei=7
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...d=BingNewsSerp
https://www.government.se/press-rele...ritised-needs/

Don if you have questions leave them here. I won't be able to get to them until late tomorrow afternoon-late post tonight-NLW Classroom training starting at 0800 to last all day.

Shower time!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

On PVB 302 Ukraine I believe START/OCT 2024 might be a better date.

The DREGEN ref. I believe was confusing the "50" number with how many CV90 UNITS they have vice having received 50 PBV 302 UNITS.

The issue boils down to the timeline involved.

Sorry for the confusion now it's off to bed as the "REDMAN" NEVER SLEEPS.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

https://x.com/praisethesteph/status/1836416878798880821

The 🇺🇦#Ukrainian armed forces in the #Kursk Oblast have lost an interesting vehicle - it is an 🇺🇸#US-supplied M113A3 with a new Ukrainian-made manned turret with 12.7mm M2 Browning.

Many M113s delivered to Ukraine have either no protection for the gunner at all, or the gunner is too exposed to enemy fire in the original turret. This new turret protects the gunner from all directions, including from above.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

https://defence-blog.com/us-army-buy...hting-vehicle/

The U.S. Army has finalized a contract modification with BAE Systems, valued at over $440 million, to produce more than 200 additional Bradley Fighting Vehicles, including M2A4E1 variants.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Not quite the same but close
https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/24/136...personnel.html

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

https://x.com/RyszardJonski/status/1848749456788730110

Lithuania purchases a battalion of Leopard 2A8 tanks and 2 battalions of CV90MkIV IFV vehicles.

The decisions were made today by the Lithuanian State Defense Council VGT /Valstybės Gynimo Taryboje/.

https://kam.lt/valstybes-gynimo-tary...tuvos-paramos/

cc'ed from the MBT thread

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Chinese have unveiled a NEW airborne IFV; seen at a "look at me I'm so important" meet with Hu Jintao as he inspects PLA Airborne Forces:

https://x.com/Nickatgreat1220/status...96390947934351

What's notable about it is that while we don't have full oblique views yet, we can see it has an active protection system from the sensors+projectile launchers on it.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Ukraine Approves the Oncilla-Shturm Armored Personnel Carrier for Military Use
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...use-12675.html

Equipped for mobility, protection, and firepower to meet the demands of combat.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

now entered into the OOB

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Someone here will know this

Which version of the Rosomak KTO is Ukraine getting??.... Is it the manned or unmanned turret version?

The info I found was conflicting. I suspect it's the manned turret or is it just the APC with no turret?

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

From the licensed Polish manufacturer it's the HITFIST 30P turret crewed by two.

The first ref. supports this from 3 months ago also it's indicating the remote ZSSW-30 had just finished the first of its live firing tests at the time of the article. See the bottom 2 paras.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ne/ar-AA1odbY5

Now to BUMAR-ŁABĘDY S.A. site...
https://bumar.gliwice.pl/en/strefa-m...do-kto-rosomak
(Note the PDF files at bottom.)

What is troubling was that there was no mention of the ZSSW-30 (Which will also have 2 SPIKE Medium distance launchers.) on the website as you'll see from where I pulled the above two refs from. Might still be in Manufactures or joint testing phase.

Off topic but confirms what some of us suspected and this has expanded since this news announcement was released to apparently include up to the T-84 OPLOT-M more recently.
https://bumar.gliwice.pl/en/news/pgz...etu-pancernego

Will address the M-84 :doh: issue later in the MBT Thread.

I need to hit the rack!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: Almost forgot again saw the following while looking into something else, I can for sure say it's not the T-15.

I haven't had the time to take a hard look, but I believe it is a derivative of the T-80 tank. And it is new.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...c4c11f58&ei=30

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

USMC has reached a major milestone concerning the ACV.

The ACV last month conducted its first open-water amphibious movement at Kushi Crossing, Okinawa.

I feel with this accomplished that the FOC possibly occur ahead of the planned USMC FOC for some time in 2028.

I can see the potential for the ACV to reach FOC in the Summer/Fall of 2027 this is how important I feel this milestone is.

Needless to say, there will be more of these open-water amphibious operations to come in getting to the final "over the horizon" open-water amphibious operations which is what the current AAV has done since the 1970's.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news...ement-in-japan

EDIT: Just found this and it is related to the above, also this shows progress towards FOC.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights...s-acv-trainers

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

The last link is borked

If anyone finds any more info about this let me know

https://www.kongsberg.com/newsroom/n....-marine-corps

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/l...s-for-acv-30s/

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

"Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace has been awarded a $329 million contract to provide 175 Protector Remote Turret 20 systems for the U.S. Marine Corps’ Amphibious Combat Vehicle 30 (ACV-30). This acquisition is part of the ongoing effort to replace the aging AAV-7A1 vehicles. The RT-20 turret offers a modular design, advanced network capabilities, and remote wireless operation, improving operational flexibility. The ACV-30, with its 30mm remotely operated cannon, enhances amphibious combat capabilities. This modern platform supports multi-platform engagement and provides added internal space, boosting mobility and operational efficiency."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxZRRr66g70

includes some info on 3 different ACV variants and numbers ordered.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Fixed and tested x3 on last post. But just in case...
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights...s-acv-trainers

Works here also x3.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

What appears to be in the USMC pipeline is the Amphibious Combat Vehicle 30mm (ACV-30) AND the Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle 30mm (ARV-30)

The ARV-30 is currently in the USMC OOB renationalised
I have added the ACV-30 in the USMC OOB also now renationalised until I get more info

So two entirely different vehicles named with one letter difference.
One is intended to replace the LAV the other the AAV-7

WONDERFUL idea naming them almost the same............what could possibly go wrong?


If anyone finds good data on how many troops each of of these things will carry and IF there is anything like a target date for introduction let me know..( PARTICULARLY the 30mm versions )

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

AI Overview

The Marine Corps' Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle (ARV) is designed to transport five embarked Marines and a crew of two. The ARV is being developed to replace the Light Armored Vehicle (LAV)

:doh:

This may turn into just "so much fun" getting troops and formations to fit


EDIT....... I should go out and buy a lottery ticket. It looks like I only have to bend reality a tiny bit

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Amphibious Combat Vehicle 30mm
3 Crew +8 Embarked Marines


At first glance it looks like MAYBE I might make this work with minimal "creativity"

That depends on how the 30mm versions are going to be organized with the "normal" ACV's but right now that is a total WAG

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Fun.........

https://www.defense.gov/News/Contrac...icle/3955652//

Some of you have more experience reading US government contracts. IDK where Production Lots 5 and 6 fit into the overall schedule and when I should guess these MIGHT actually get into the USMC TO&E

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I *THINK* I have a solution but how close it might be depends on the % of ACV-30's and regular ACV's

Right now I have a set up with one additional ACV-30 per ACV Coy which works out to 1:11 ratio

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Lots 5 & 6 would normally indicate that they were proceeded by Lots 1-4 in earlier contracts for the ACV systems.

Based on your ref submitted, I would think the first of these weapon systems would be rolling off the production line somewhere around mid-2026 to support weapons systems integration for the lot 5 & 6 ACV production line.

No where am I finding manning for ANY of the troop-carrying versions to be less than 3 Crew and the current USMC 13 personnel platoon.

This is accomplished because the weapons systems are mounted above the crew compartment forward of the troop compartment. All the weapons are remotely operated. You can easily see this in the videos and pictures as the troop compartment has a slightly raised roof section behind both the crew compartment and weapons station.

"The ACV threshold requirement for quantity of personnel
carried is 3 crewmen and 13 embarked infantry with full
combat loads, including 2 days of supply and combat essential
equipment. The ACV accommodated 3 crew and 13 embark
infantry. Due to the placement and number of blast mitigating
seats, interior space within the ACV is limited, making rapid
ingress and egress difficult" From ref 1 directly, but also in ref 2.
https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/...mSDJ9FRA%3d%3d
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/IF11755.pdf

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

The info I found and quoted in post #694 indicated the 30mm version had the same crew as the standard troop version but a capacity for only 8 troops

Of course I cut and pasted the info from the BAE link but not the link........... looking for it again now

Here it is
https://i.imgur.com/dqNbTan.png


I finally got the correct link

https://www.baesystems.com/en-media/...3690293920.pdf

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

https://www.textronsystems.com/products/cottonmouth

That is a 6 wheel vehicle with 2 Crew, 5 Embarked Marines
:doh:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

That intro part of "over the horizon" sounds to me like its EW capability will also include anti-drone jamming/interference equipment as well.

Surveillance of the electronic type especially is as "broad spectrum" in meaning today as is the sensor equipment onboard a vehicle like this to carry out its EW mission.

This is clearly of a type of equipment that is a multi-tasker across the electronic spectrum in EW Ops.

Regards,
Pat
:capt: