Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Alneyan,

As the AIC event file is now, we play with both Good events and Bad events; possibilities.

I believe that PTF has now proved that Lucky and Cursed does in fact work, from a previous patch.

With the fact that Lucky works as a trait now and that, Good events will defeat the purpose of Lucky because; Lucky only reduces the Event percentage and not actually, reduce any certain class of an event action.

The pulse of the AIC Players is that they like Both Good and Bad events in the mix.

I feel both cannot exist any longer, so they will have to choose, with Good Events to remain in the mix, Cursed must be removed and lucky reduced as an improbable Multiplayer choice.

The fate of the Fate shrines use of CBEC is based on that above decision as well.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Simply rename Lucky and Cursed so they no longer have any connotations of luck. Just make it so the new "lucky" means fewer events, the new "cursed" means more events. They need not be dependant upon good and bad chances and all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, that was what I believed JLS, but I hoped I was wrong this time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As for the Fate Shrine, you could also suppress its ability to reduce the chances for events, or even maybe give two facilities, one with this ability and the other one without (possibly linking the first one with Lucky)? That way, the player would have the choice to reduce or not the chances of both good and bad events.

For the Lucky and Cursed traits, I would say change the descriptions like Fyron said and perhaps decrease the costs of these traits. From what I saw in the events file, there are more bad events than good ones, so Lucky is still a bit positive, but not as useful as it was when there were only bad events. Lucky would then be quite similar to Emotionless, as this trait would be both an advantage and an annoyance.

In short, I would rather see the good events remain in the game than removing them to leave Lucky, Cursed and the Fate Shrines like they work in the vanilla game. My two organics worth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

How about the fate = good thing to happen (if it can be done)

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS said you cannot "reduce any certain class of an event action." so I gather this cannot be done. However, I am no modder so who I am to speak about the feasibility of such things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

IF this could be done, then the best would be obviously: Lucky improves the odds for a good event, Cursed increases the odds to have a bad event, as QBrigid wrote. But given how the event file and the ability one looks like, I would say you cannot do such things. I hope I am wrong though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm afraid you're not. There is no flag for good/bad in the event sets.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excellent

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

[quote]Originally posted by Alneyan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is doable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Outstanding point Alneyan, and easy to do, we just make sure there are more Bad then Good in the mix. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
What would you recommend 2 to 1?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It looks like some good compromises to me, which may keep every won happy…

Sounds like a Win + Win to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm afraid you're not. There is no flag for good/bad in the event sets.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good point PTF, maybe se5 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As PTF pointed out this cannot be done, their are no flags.

However, I am sure we can come up with a worthy action/ability to replace CBEC for the Fate shrine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
What are your thoughts, Mottlee?

[ September 13, 2003, 02:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I forgot another point, the severity of the bad events is more important than for the good ones I believe. I mean, the worst events are "Planet Destruction" and "System Destruction", which destroy planet(s) and their facilities, while the counterparts of these events only create a Planet without anything or a Star. (I am not sure if the Star - Created event does create Planets in return though)

As for the ratio, 2 to 1 seems reasonable for me, it would mean that for every two bad events, there is a good event, probably less important. So suffering from these events is still going to be a drawback for the player in most cases, making sense to take the former Lucky trait.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I forgot another point, the severity of the bad events is more important than for the good ones I believe. I mean, the worst events are "Planet Destruction" and "System Destruction", which destroy planet(s) and their facilities, while the counterparts of these events only create a Planet without anything or a Star. (I am not sure if the Star - Created event does create Planets in return though)

As for the ratio, 2 to 1 seems reasonable for me, it would mean that for every two bad events, there is a good event, probably less important. So suffering from these events is still going to be a drawback for the player in most cases, making sense to take the former Lucky trait.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the way to go!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I perfer (f) 1500 Religious cost. I always play Temporal and Religious in my Finite games.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I think Religious is very powerfull in non-connected games. Usually you have ~200 turns before contact. That's 150% Homeworld value http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Well, may be not that much, 130% perhabs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Next time I will try Religious+Organic -> Nature shrine + Replicant center! That will teach those pesky AIs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ September 17, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As PTF pointed out this cannot be done, their are no flags.

However, I am sure we can come up with a worthy action/ability to replace CBEC for the Fate shrine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
What are your thoughts, Mottlee?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">?? I have yet to try my hand at modding SE this is something I would like to try any pointers as to a start in this endevor?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can warp out in about 30 turns at Stellar Manipulations 1.

If you holding back your warp to prepare or just being xenophobic in nature, and the Eee or any one of the Engineering races are in the game and close by; you will have no choice when they may come knocking in on you earlier then 20 years into your game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This explains our recent exchange in Emails http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif your suggestion on reducing level 5 Climate Control Facility to se4 level 3 costs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif > I liked your suggestions and they are definitely in for AIC v4.0. Most of the other Planet Utilization costs also have been addressed with some slight adjustment or another for v4.0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If this is a no-warp game, you will need to warp out and brave this new universe early; to fully capitalize with that Organics race growth potential http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Oleg, thank you for that Refugees image, it is awesome!

[ September 18, 2003, 02:20: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To Modify and grow; is to Experiment and Explore the {your} Options.

. And this is why I am fond and do relate with Olegs, Fyrons, GLVs and Sun Devils passions, they are mine, as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 03:50: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

OK, here are my thoughts on the fate of the fate shrine.
Religious will remain at 1500 cost and there will not be a CBEC for that facility.

Now in beta for AIC v4.0
Yes on the Expanded (good and bad) events file to include Olegs structure for his proposed integrity for the Maximum Severity options

Now with the added events the occurrences also with/if 6+ total in-game players;Events seem to be less frequent, then stock se4 events.
Therefore, the chance setting will be increased over past settings. Perhaps as much as L30/M50/H75 possibly, even higher for Med or High frequency settings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The AI will recieve a -30 to -50+ CBEC on the main CC as a further savegaurd for its HS.

Now to balance this and to expand on Alneyan's suggestion, the Human Players now have:

Research Tech based on “Veneration”

In addition, all Human Players will receive a Hero Epics Tale, if you will for their civilizations, I am beta testing this now for AIC 4.0. This is for any Human Player that may want to tailor their current in-game Events occurrences for their game and or that specific system

Please note Heroes Epics names are examples for this beta, if anyone is offended or would like to suggest a Hero from another culture please post.

========
Reference

TechArea added
Name := Veneration
Group := Applied Science
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Maximum Level := 5
Level Cost := 1000
Start Level := 1
Raise Level := 0
Racial Area := 7
Unique Area := 0
Can Be Removed := False
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1

--------
Facility added
Name := Heroes Epic Ra
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Facility Group := Population Support
Facility Family := 291
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 36
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Veneration
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 1 Descr := Decreases the chance of any events in this system 20%(only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := -20
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0

Name := Heroes Epic Dionysus
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Facility Group := Population Support
Facility Family := 291
Roman Numeral := 2
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 36
Cost Minerals := 200
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Veneration
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 1 Descr := Decreases the chance of any events in this system 30% (only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := -30
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0

Name := Heroes Epic of Chullain
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Facility Group := Population Support
Facility Family := 291
Roman Numeral := 3
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 36
Cost Minerals := 300
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Veneration
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 1 Descr := Decreases the chance of any events in this system 40%(only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := -40
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0

Name := Heroes Epic Hera
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Facility Group := Population Support
Facility Family := 292
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 36
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Veneration
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 1 Descr := Inreases the chance of any events in this system 5%(only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 5
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0

Name := Heroes Epic Grania
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Facility Group := Population Support
Facility Family := 292
Roman Numeral := 2
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 36
Cost Minerals := 200
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Veneration
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 1 Descr := Inreases the chance of any events in this system 10%(only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 10
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0

Name := Heroes Epic of Hades
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Facility Group := Population Support
Facility Family := 292
Roman Numeral := 3
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 36
Cost Minerals := 300
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Veneration
Tech Level Req 1 := 4
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 1 Descr := Inreases the chance of any events in this system 20%(only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 20
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
--------

AI Players CC
Name := Cultural Center
Description := The developed homeland of a space-age civilization, roughly continental in size, including hundreds of cities, parks, infrastructure, arts, religions, sciences, industry, etc.
Facility Group := Zenith Urban Center
Facility Family := 54
Roman Numeral := 0
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 10
Cost Minerals := 300000
Cost Organics := 200000
Cost Radioactives := 200000
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := AI Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 20
Ability 1 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Minerals
Ability 1 Descr := Population Center...
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1125
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 350
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Radioactives
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 300
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Point Generation - Research
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 700
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Point Generation - Intelligence
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := 150
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0
Ability 6 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 6 Descr :=
Ability 6 Val 1 := 15000
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 7 Descr :=
Ability 7 Val 1 := -50
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0
Ability 8 Type := ~~~
--------

Se4 Abilities/Action

Change Bad Event Chance - System
Value1 = Percentage change in chance for bad event for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 =

[ September 18, 2003, 05:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As PTF pointed out this cannot be done, their are no flags.

However, I am sure we can come up with a worthy action/ability to replace CBEC for the Fate shrine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
What are your thoughts, Mottlee?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">?? I have yet to try my hand at modding SE this is something I would like to try any pointers as to a start in this endevor?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Try SE4 Modding 101 Tutorial as a guide to get you started. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It does not say anything about AIs (well, almost nothing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), but does start you off on most of modding.

JLS, you might want to fix those ability descriptions prior to release... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 05:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a great tool and I refer to it frequently
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As you posted, however to remember when the product is finished is another quest altogether http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 05:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thanks....Will give it a read http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can warp out in about 30 turns at Stellar Manipulations 1.

... Oleg, thank you for that Refugees image, it is awesome!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I prefer Middle-Age galaxies, Cluster type is too artificial too my liking. In MiddleAge map I seldom have a system inside 30 LY radious and earlier reserch of SM II is too costly IMHO.
I prefer to research Computers/Industry and colonization techs before that. Astrography is an important factor here.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Great ! This Veneration stuff is awesome. Gives a lot of material for roleplaying your race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

You can warp as early as 2,5 years (including the actual production of the ship), if you only research Ship Construction, Astrophysics and Stellar Manipulation. Obviously, you will be in a LOT of trouble if the system in which you has just opened a warp is inhabited by a Bersecker, Aggressive species. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (I tend to research Mines and build a hundred of them on the future warp point, but is that enough to prevent from an early offensive? I mean, in the third or fourth year)

I do like this Veneration tree, the players will know be able to choose between being protected against events (but not having good events), or suffering from these events and having a good event from time to time. I wonder if there will be players that won't build these facilities though. As for the events chances, I would second you on increasing the odds for the High setting. When you pick this setting, you do want events to occur, don't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (And of course, 90 is supposed to mean almost an event each turn, but all these events should not target a single Empire.)

Additionally, I would like to ask you a few questions JLS as I am playing a No-Warp game of AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
* How the reproduction formula is working now? I couldn't find this information anywhere. And what about the Organic facilities increasing reproduction rates? (The Unknown Facility, perhaps Cloning Centers, are "producting" an additionnal million of settlers each turn, but I don't know how are working the others now)
* Can the AI use all the stellar components? I usually feel embarassed when taking advantages of these, when the AI might be not using then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
* Finally, are you supposed to be able to build a Starliner without a Population module? Instead of using this component, you could build a Basic Life Support and a Cargo Bay (to have a cargo space of 1025) which costs almost no organic.

My apologizes if these questions have already been raised. (And it is likely the case)

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I usually build such starliners for intra-system shipping. Population module allows you to fit supply bay and extend the range to the next system. Granted, it does not mater if you don't mind ships drift with speed 1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I suppose supplies are an important factor when the distance is quite far actually (An average Starline has 520 supplies and uses 36 supplies each turn, so you can travel for one year and a half before running out of supplies) I have to admit I have the nasty habit of creating nodes quite close one to the others, so it is usually not a matter for me, at least in the beginning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Another argument is if you always have to spend ornacis on starliners, Organic races will receive very big advantage.

Try to play with supply penalties, it makes game ,hmm, interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And the other point is that close warp points speed up the process of colonizing other systems, but also speed up any invasion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (It is quite annoying when an invading fleet made its way through four systems to your homeworld in a single turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

I will try to play with this trait, perhaps now supplies will be much harder to find hmm... But before that, I need to be able to play AIC AND survive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mottlee if you have any questions post or Email, we would be happy to participate and help http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That is what I did; I think I drove PvK nuts at times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Actually as I recall, Last year I sent him an Email with word that was 3 pages long http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif he is truly a good sport http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 19:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

as Originally posted by oleg:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, although AIC facilitates the Open Warp opportunity at level One and two, it does require an increased investment to back door a distant opponent from a higher levels http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
With some additions of new maps, and with QB along with others recommending that initial open warp radius to be increased by 1 LY for AIC 4.0 it is proposed.
AIC 4.0 proposed changes
SM I ~ Increased from 3 LY to 4 LY - AI Players has no opertunities.
SM II ~ Increased from 5 LY to 6 LY - AI player also at 6 LY.
SM III ~ Equals se4 first Open Warp of 10 LY - AI Players also at 10 LY

In addition, some Players may prefer to play AIC No-Warp with the [Technology Cost] start option to LOW for a change in pace. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Clarification AIC Star Liners move at Speed:
Small StarLiner starts at Speed 2 then Speed 3 at Quantum Engines I. Cargo Potential is 1100kt
Medium StarLiner Speed 2 with Contra Engine I then Speed 3 at Quantum Engines I. Cargo Potential is 2100kt
Large StarLiner has Speed of 2 With Photon Engine I then Speed 3 at Quantum Engines I. Cargo Potential is 3100kt

In addition, with Propulsion Experts also as one of your trait all speeds will be increased by one sector traveled
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed; and to also consider, this to offset by the condition that the Organic Races only have one Replicant Center that reproduces at one pop per turn as opposed to the three levels in se4
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, it still needs to be refined and tested in conjunction with the final Events file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 21:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Clarification AIC Star Liners move at Speed:
Small StarLiner starts at Speed 2 then Speed 3 at Quantum Engines I. Cargo Potential is 1100kt
Medium StarLiner Speed 2 with Contra Engine I then Speed 3 at Quantum Engines I. Cargo Potential is 2100kt
Large StarLiner has Speed of 2 With Photon Engine I then Speed 3 at Quantum Engines I. Cargo Potential is 3100kt

...[/quote]

Oh, no, that my comment was about building cheap starliners with no Pop. module that can make long travels with speed 1 instead of 2 because of "auto speed =1 when out of gas" SE feature.

I don't think it can be rectified but I am perfectly happy with current AIC starliner design.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 00:20: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Actually as I recall, Last year I sent him an Email with word that was 3 pages long he is truly a good sport

LOL I will remember that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (you too when i send YOU a 3 pager http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

as Originally posted by Alneyan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">100 Minefield is solid against the AI; until that, AI Player acquires many destroyers and certainly a few Fighter Carrier's of any nature in a fleet that would attempt a pass thru your minefield.

It is always wise to have a Mixed bag of Satellites to help defend along with your Minefield. Certainly with this AI, and as with playing against Human Players; you will be the constent need to shore up this static defensive position with a Fleet, Carriers, Fighters and Bases even Drones at your ready; as time passes and your opponent also gets stronger http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~ ~ ~
With AIC 4.0 as discussed earlier; the AI Player will have less effect with mines and will be subjected to more of our cruelty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It is also planed to Implement Suicides Junkies suggestions in regards to Mines in general. However the trusty Human Player Minesweeper will still be in play
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you. However, please pat your self on the back Alneyan; this was based from your premise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

With out the CBEC on their CC for the NON-Religious Human Players Home System, this may have some interesting results if the Hero’s Epic is not used.

Agreed 90 for high, it may just be AIC 4.0 High Event setting, the Human Player can throttle this back with a heroes Epic, if and where desired. This also may be a good setting for the SP Human Player that wishes to start with 18 plus total in-game Players.
Other wise Medium of 50 will give a good and moderate frequency for events that also could be throttled up with a heroes Epic, if and where desired
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a good is a good question…
O my Heroes Epic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif it will take a lot of recall to put all this in perspective. We did discuses this many months ago I will put together a rudimentary presentation together. With that, I do expect you to pick it apart http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif so we all can address some of the modifiers. How we perceive they may quantify and how one facility may now supercede that facility but that’s ok because the superceded facility has this neat thing that may benefit all. However, this is only as long as that facility is built, but then again, if or when this is done the modifier will be ~ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ~
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely, do what you will http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif With the exception of WARP CLOSE; the AI Players handles most stellar Manipulations very well, in AIC…
Actually, it gets upsetting when they convert that asteroid to a planet and then rush their colonizers to them. When you see an AI Planet Creators in your Asteroid belts, start building Colonizers. Alternatively, just attempt to capture a few if the prize warrants this.

Additionally, for example, your static defenses have been constructed and well prepared for some time now then all of a sudden some Science or Engineering AI Player opens a back door and alas, the flood gates are now opened; with this the may-day klaxons are sounded for the total recall of the fleet to protect the mother land

If you plan on Blowing up one of their Planets or a Star with tectonics; you will barely have enough time to do this with most or their older and well established systems, and it is very doubtful you will succeeded at the AI Players Home System.
In addition, as the game progresses it will become more and more difficult for the unscrupulous Human Player to Systematically close your friendly and trusting AI Players Warp Points, and Late in the game it may be come difficult to open alternate warp points to their Systems.

This list can continue but lets save a few more surprises for you; from this AI

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, there are a few configurations for the Star Liner Hull.

1: For Population Transport and comfort: With the Pop Module that will also serve as the ships Life Support.
Please Note: Population Module is designed with a cost intent as to demand the need to establish Organic-farming Planets to continue and/or accelerate your growth.

You may have 1 Supply Storage or even better most players install 1 Solar Collector with this you will travel almost any distence or add some additional Cargo space there may even be a few more options as well.
AIC 4.0 will also introduce a RAM Scoope http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

2: As a freighter: With no Pop Module installed and just the basic Life Support installed; you have all the options above. With the benefit of 975kt to nearly 3000kt of minimum cargo space (depending on Starliner Hull size) to haul any freight without the mounting costs of Organics from the Pop Modules…

Transport Hulls, with the right Cargo tech level and for the right price, make for a great Population carrier. They will also get you there much faster.

Sat, Mine Layers and Dome Launchers that are not tasked; also make for a great Cargo Ship.

[ September 19, 2003, 00:57: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will look forward to this Mottlee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you open warp points over your Home World http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

The AI Player uses the same engines as the Human Player, and basicly Travels at the same speed with most of its warships.

There are a few ships for example: Colonizers and Transport that have been given or have retained default speeds so they may make way thru Black Holes and other stellar obstacles more efficiently http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you open warp points over your Home World http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is a part of roleplaying the non-connected game I think. You have no idea about any aliens, you just build a new and fascinating device. Of course you would try iton low Earth Orbit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Only a true paranoic would tow it to Mars first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I certainly won't - I just can't wait another month to see if the bloody thing - that costs a fortune - works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, that is a typo in the description, and is a result of me making changes when tweaking a previous release and not changing that description accordingly.

Makinus thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Good eye, if you find any more description off; please post or Email so I may be sure this was attended to for AIC v4.0. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

John

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I see what you mean.

However, opening warps a to a few opponents that leads back no mater how many systems, directly over your Home World only makes for a Last stand and that will be so much easer for your opponent and less time for you to recover or even diplomacy; as your HW may become Blockaded or even captured. With few to no options left. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Not to mention if this was just a recon in force from a friendly AI Player, the damage is done, he did not know what was on the other side of that Last warp, tif he could only say “well sorry about our ships attacking your Home World” >”it not to late for a trade agreement is it” http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

If you open Warps over your Home World and then stack Warp points in other system; theoretically your opponents can attack in one turn from the other side of the map to your Home World in one turn with no worry about its fuel supply.
Repeating the worst case, but very possible scenarios above.

As it is today with some successful military doctrines, you may consider a blocking, diVersions, and or holding actions. Before contact and well before your opponent can approach your best terrain.
= = =
A possible strategy; but may come back to bite you. With first contact, maybe if we give a new friendly or serine AI Player the copy of your Home System Charts, as a token. He may avoid your HS with a large force if it knows what it is, this may be worth a try if you find that the above scenarios may come into play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 16:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I know it, but it surely spice up the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

It surly does, Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Actually, most of us do it as well. I think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It cuts travel time so much for me; I sometimes forget that it will make ease for my rivels, as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 16:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

>>>above maps are good for No Warp Games or without ALL WPs connected) ---

This implies that; other AIC data is optimized for these maps with or with out the above setting of No-Warp and/or without ALL WPs connected for your new game.
~You may also regenerate the AIC-CENTURION RUINS map with the above settings for a no-warp game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All maps that are located below from that menu; play similar to se4 or the maps you may be used to regardless of whether it is a no warp game or not, because the AIC SM III warp opener is at the same location on the Tech Tree and same as default of 10 LY, as the se4 first warp opener.
~ ~ ~

Now with above said, and considering Opening Warps over your Home Planet. Try this setting when starting a new game quad map ALL WPs connected { off } and then No Warp Points { ON } as this WILL absolutely change most if not all the AI Players strategies/methodologies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and may somewhat change your new system warp opening methods/strategies as well.

= = = =

In addition, for those of you that have not played this style of just a ALL WPs connected { off } game with >>>above maps are good", please give it a try; it is an interesting alternative from the basic standard or no-warp games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 17:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, but I simply like MiddleAge type maps. Clusters do not feel "real" and SpiralArm tends to have very short interstellar distances. It is by design, I know, but I just prefer random MiddleAge maps. I am perfectly happy with all types and just express my preferences. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Absolutely I agree, Oleg. My favorite map has always been PvK’s Semi-Standard Proportions map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

= = =
With “>>>above maps are good for No Warp Games or without ALL WPs connected” does; is help me tweak the AI Players better and to set up some boundaries that will applie inherently, to most default no-warp and or without ALL WPs connected new game starts, that’s all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Reference
PvK’s Proportions Semi-Standard quad map

Name := Semi-Standard
Description := Slightly different from sidereal, with a few more special systems.

[ September 19, 2003, 17:34: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thanks for your answers JLS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I was asking about the beginning of the game, after twenty years the very same minefield might be not exactly enough against an enemy fleet composed of sixty cruisers. And when you are using a network of warp points, all connected to your Homeworld, then you should also add more defenses just in case. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*Pats himself on the back* *Must look like quite ludicrous* If a player is not happy with the settings used, he/she could change them I suppose. Even I is able to do so, so anyone should be able to tweak these values. *Smirks*

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure if I did understand your meaning there. Does it mean you will put a (sort of) description, expecting harsh criticisms? Do not worry, I am really kind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I do not have issues with the current reproduction formula, I was merely curious. The problem might be with the Organic facilities though, but as Oleg seems to like these ones, he will be more suited to speak about such matters.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm I see, then I will no longer feel compassion with the AI and deploy all my power with any weapon at my disposal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It will be nasty for an AI to open a warp point right behind my main battlegroup, just next to the node leading to all my systems in no more than a month. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif We will see what will happens in my current game, in which this time I seem to be doing fine (or rather, I am no longer doing poorly)

Additionally, as I am speaking of a full war against the AI, does the AI know how to use Intelligence well? Some projects would seem to be more powerful now than in vanilla SE:IV, like, for instance, the ones targeting population or the conditions of a given planet. That could be quite nasty, if they are still available.

As for my "plan" on connecting all warp points together, I was actually playing a *very* over-confident race, which was a bit less arrogant when their homeworld fall to enemy hands. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

On a more pragmatic point of view, doing such a thing has many pros as you mentioned, but the "little" drawback is that your Homeworld is so much more exposed to an enemy assault. (Except if you are using the facilities to prevent the opening of a warp point in all your systems save one, but you would have to be *very* patient to do so.)

Perhaps one could think of using a planet, not too far from your Homeworld, as a hub, linked to every other system? You would still be quite vulnerable, but at least your Homeworld could not fall in a single turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Finally, is warping requires a movement point or no?

*Returns plotting against these Empires, lost somewhere in the universe, hidden in their little systems* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

as Originally posted by Alneyan:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please, define your opinion here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I may be misunderstanding you.

The reply, as is now; yes. That any player can now attempt to change events {chance occurrences) in his/her Systems, if desired by Him or her. And that it is also to say him or her will not be locked in by just the start up options chance settings, as in past se4 or Mods. This is a good thing isn’t it?

For example http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif in a no-warp game, and you are feeling lucky.

Lets say that from one of your remote newly colonized systems, would or could connect to a another system or even a large unexplored cluster of systems; only if you had a that SM tech. As a player you now may build Hero’s Epic that has a better the chance for that system to OPEN a new warp by (EVENT).
Sure the Gods are fickle and they may totaly destroy that newly colonized system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif or maybe grant you 40 Refugees instead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This is what the Heroes Epic it is meant to be about

- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My post was not that well defined, my apologies.

I have no worries http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I look forward and do expect some input from you. Actually, I will be disappointed in you if there was none http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There is a lot to it and it was getting late Last night.
As I said I would; I have been putting together that rudimentary presentation together this mourning in-between Posts etc.
This will be done soon.
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, I am concerned you found an “Organics problem”.
Please elaborate

-----
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly, once you get the unfamiliar economics’ and new mechanics down you will be ready for a Low Bonus Game
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to the IntelProjects. Other then the addition of AIC Psychic Intel and a few other minnor changes, yes.
With the actual se4 Intel module; this AI offensively plays {basicly} the same.

However again, you just lit a light bulb, I am going to play around with a few more possible Intel options.
- - - -

[quote]
is warping requires a movement point or no?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, at the least this may may give the; Impulsive or Neutral and Certainly the Friendly and Serine demeanord AI Player a chance to decide {are you friend or foe} if first contact is made via a new Connecting systems Warp point, other then just dumping on your HW.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 19:17: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

As originally posted by JLS

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I was really obscure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I meant that a player could change the odds for an event in the settings.txt file, if he or she wasn't happy with the values you choose for AIC 4.0

Yes, these shrines are exactly there to alter the odds for events in both ways. It depends if you are willing to take quite a risk or not. (Even a Warp Point Opened event can be more harmful than, say, if your outpost was destroyed, if this particular warp point leads right into a system owned by an aggressive species whose fleet is twice as powerful as your own. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You should not worry, I am pretty sure there will be feedback, either praise or criticisms, or both for that matter. I have to admit I could not find the settings affecting the reproduction formula in the data files as for now.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I am able to stand my ground against a single AI, I will try with a Low Bonus AI. (And later perhaps even a desesperate game, erh, in a few years then lest the game is an onslaught, although this could be fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't point this thing on purpose though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (I am not playing much with Intelligence usually, I will have to research Intelligence in my current game to remind what are the available projets, although I am not a Psychic)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, then I am even more vulnerable than what I believed in my worst nightmares. Perhaps a change of stragegy might be useful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Incidentally, I would second JLS's suggestion to try at least once a No Warp Point game. I only played with such settings a few days ago with AIC, and I have to say these games are as or even more enjoyable than the regular ones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It might not suit your tastes, but you do not have much to lose in trying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

As originally posted by Alneyan:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually if you follow the Posts every one has a voice, for example, you remarked on 90% as High http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

On the flip side, what risk is there if one would want the Hero that may actually reduce an events; you will reduce the chances and as you say RISK also the possible beneficial events http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

In regards to the Possibilities, it is fair to say that this is not yet possible in se4, and this will offer another option to the Human Players that play AIC.

How can this be a bad thing?
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, I am still unsure and concerned of the specific "Organics Facility Problem” you are referring to? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Is it a programming error on my part?
Or is it something conceptual you do not understand?
Please elaborate.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 19:50: Message edited by: JLS ]