Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Chris Pedersen, are you going to relieve Squirrelloid of captaining or continue being advisor?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Septimius, Gandalf

I'd like to request a 36 hour extension. I am *really* not in a position to captain, but if no other arrangements can be made, I got squirrell into thisl I feel obligated to relieve him of it. With thanks.

So if there is a vet out there with the time to spare, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I need time to get up to speed.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

It seems like all Usurpers have submitted their turns, so maybe you don't really need these 36h this turn?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Well, by the time I got this message the turn had already processed (looks like every ones turns were in though). As advisor I know you'd have access to the forums all along but if you feel your team needs more than 48 hours on the current turn (23) for the transition of captain or for something else just let me know and how much additional time you might need. Otherwise welcome back Chris.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

After discussion, both I and squirrell think that the game is already decided. However, I have not discussed our observations with the team. Having access does not mean I've had time to participate in the discussions, significantly.

The team in itself has functioned well. If they wish to continue - for purposed of learning the game, tactics etc. I'd rather they had the opportunity to do so. I'll post for a sub, ask for the delay, and try to catch up.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Well Chris, let me know what you guys want to do. I don't want to hold up the turns inordinately for everyone else if at all possible, but if you need a specific delay to find either another noob (and promote a captain from within) or someone to replace yourself, like I said let me know.

There are at least a few players who are still learning or enjoying themselves. While I may have my own private opinion as well, I also think there are no guarantees that any team will absolutely win. And diplomacy remains open between teams. Technically the game will roll on till one of the 3 victory conditions is met:

1. Conventional win - by annihilation or concession (excluding merc)

2. Insta-win - control 22 of the 33 VP locations (control of a fortification = control). Every marked location on map is worth 1 VP

3. Most VPs - upon agreement by all captains to end the game, the team with the most VPs wins. Any VP tie will be decided based on most provinces held.

I do want to take the time, however, to thank Squirrel for subbing as captain of the Usurpers. It can be a rough/time consuming job being looked to for leadership. A captain/leader needs the support and effort of all team members and the burden of running the team (organization, posting, communication, etc.) should be spread amongst all members as evenly as possible.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Guys, I have to repeat my suggestion about your teams teaming up completely.Obviously, our team is in superior position now but even Cromites are far from hopeless taking into account gems and other possibilities.
However, if you don't think it makes sense to continue, we're ok with that.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I've asked for the extension based on continuing.
Also whats the current hosting turn around time?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Yes, I am sure you are! :) Couldn't help but notice Mysterio is dead as well.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

here you will find all info on hosting
and here're stats etc

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

What? You mean you want a delay contingent upon your team continuing or you just want a delay. If so how long? Let me know when you've a concrete answer.

The current hosting interval is 48 hours. 21 hours left on the current turn. We are only at turn 23. And moving along at about the full interval. Info available on the main post.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

His death was very different from the deva's and he nearly bet us. But luckily, he is dead.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I was hoping your death (C'tis) would be interesting and unique as well. With luck I'll get a chance to see it. :D

Why hasn't C'tis joined the fight against AI Man, or do you want Children of Crom to have all the fun?

Game note:

ChrisPedersen is resuming as Captain of the Usurpers. I welcome Chris back to the game. He has also asked for an 8 hour delay to refamiliarize himself with the strategic situation and the game rules and parameters. The delay will be granted. Opening post updated.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Exactly!

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Septimius
You wanted to extend turn by 8h. Why does it say 41h now?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I've gotten turns in for arco and bandar. But still waiting on pythium and mictlan.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Gandalf needs to change it. But apparently to institute delays Gandalf must stop the game and restart it. So when he did, it reinitialized the 48 hour interval and no other interval was set. The timestamp I have on the current turn is 6/16 3:45 AM which I am assuming is PST. So if you add 48 hours to that, plus an additional 8 hours for Chris, the new turn should host 6/18 11:45 AM. If that timestamp is PST (sever time), that would mean the next turn should host at 6/18 2:45 PM EST.

Aside from that though, I still see all 4 Usurpers turns still outstanding. Frustrating, I know. If we can get those turns in before Gandalf gets the message I sent about the adjustment, then the turn will process and Gandalf doesn't need to make any more adjustments.

Edit: 2 turns still outstanding. Lets get those turns in!

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I'll do my best, but it'll take a bit given Chris' ultra=precise micromanagement.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Hah. That's Chris for ya. :lol But I still have great respect for his experience and I tip my hat to any with the courage to take up the mantle of leadership.

For good or bad though, whatever the turn (or the game) may bring, the faster the turns host the faster noobs can learn. Remember also, there's a no rollback policy for this game.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I'm the last. When Chris posted, the working day was just starting where I reside. Here in the office no connection to the servor is techincally possible. I'll do my turn toonight as soon as i arrive home.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Speaking of things....

It had previously been agreed that freshwater tags would be applied to many territories and mountain tags would be applied to 1/3 to 1/2 of the mountain territories.

My team has been blowing water gems based on the assumption that this had been done.

My version of the map file however shows *no* water tags and *no* mountain tags.

To refresh the issue: if you want to have a team based on water (as the usurpers are) then you needed to make sure there was equal access to water gems.

I don't recall the exact numbers - but there were
50 something forest provinces
30 something mountain provinces
14 waste provinces
and 8! swamps.


Forests most common gem type is nature, followed by death.
So there are plenty of spots for Nature, earth and death sites.
almost none for water.

And that is exactly what our site searching is turning up: bupkus for water. What happened?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

chrispedersen
I may tell you we've found a good pack of water sites even though we didn't specifically search for them. But we've found nearly no astral and what we've found is crap. So, it's basically random.
However, if freshwater tags (and mountains) have not been added, it is bad because this was agreed upon. I just didn't pay much attention to it

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Don't know what issue your having Chris. Freshwater terrain masks and mountain terrains masks WERE added to the final/server version of the .map file which Gandalf has. Apparently you can't actually see the freshwater tags when you click on the provinces in the gamen though, but my version of the .map clearly shows several provinces with the freshwater terrain mask number 8, so doesn't mean they are not there. I do however, see all the mountain tags I added on the map. Just to give you an example, if you click around your map I see (and you should see also) mountain provinces in: 212, 185, 137, 145, etc. If you don't see these, then I'd like know.

As I stated after I completed the work on adding the tags, I did not just go around the map and randomly add these masks nor did I sit there and count up province numbers. Freshwater tags were added at intervals in provinces along the diagonals stretching from Atlantis Cap to each corner lake (should give you a good idea where to search). Additional freshwater tags were added in the provinces immediately surrounding each corner lake.

Mountain provinces were added in logical places where existing border mountain masks were. Pretty much whereever you see an area which is enclosed by mountains on at least 3 sides and/or with few province connections is where you'll find them. An effort was made to ensure that if there were border mountains in each team's quadrant, there will be at least a couple of mountain provinces as well.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Regarding the hosting of the current turn, I have asked Gandalf to make the adjustment to ensure that the turn will host when it was supposed to based on the 8 hour delay request. It is up to him to ensure that the server hosts at the appropriate time when I convey a delay request to him. After that it is out my hands.

I gave an earlier estimate based on the timestamp of the file, but Gandalf should actually officially know when this will be in the server time zone.

I do see a message from Numahr here, but I have no idea what time zone he is in, nor do I see another request for a delay. Chris if you want additional hours, you need to let me know now, or else convey the request to Gandalf before the next turn hosts, since I will be off the comp till later this evening. There will be no rollback nonsense this time around. That is a promise and is clearly stated on the opening post!

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Yep, if it's one thing I know about random it's uneven.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

It is. Look what I've written about S sites ;)

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Hmm.. My map does not show freshwater tags at all, nor mountains. Is the final map secret, or is it available from the first page, and can I examine it?

Regarding hosting, at the present time numahr said he'd get his turn uploaded on his return from work. He is presumably relying on a the time counter that was displaying this morning.

I'd like to just ask that he be allowed to upload his turn. We're on quickhost, so as soon as he does the turn should process. We should be good to go on a regular turn schedule thereafter.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

5 minutes left till hosting. It is no good.
Even if numahr uploads turn in time (very doubtful), this is a sad situation, Septimius, that should never repeat. We're not in a hurry here and don't want anyone to stale. There would be no problem in postponing the turn more than 8h especially considering the quickhost and the fact that numahr said his turn is done. It is a poor practice to do so.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

What is particularly bad is when people see one hosting time in the evening morning and a few hours later it suddenly changes without any email notifications or something...

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

This REALLY bites.

At 12:30 pm the host shows 29 hours till hosting.
at 1:30 you ask me do I need any additional delay.
at 2:30 I respond that numahar is expecting to be able to upload his turn when he returns from work. That he was expecting 29 hours; could we ensure that he has time to upload his turn.

I respond to you within *1* hour. What more could I have realistically done?

Apparently it hosting roughly at 3:30 without numahar. (I don't know the facts).

Sept, no offense but with people spread all over the globe it is impossible to guarantee contact in less than 12 hours or so.

Numahr posted here that he would upload upon his return.
I asked for a delay for him to be able to do that.

Why on earth would you subtract 24 hours from hosting, without numahar having a chance to know about it?

There is a very good chance that because of this the *entire* pythium army will be wiped out.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

If you want to rehost, our team (at least me) won't mind, although rehosts are evil. This was just a situation that should never happen and an example of bad adminning. Sorry.
But I want the decision as early as possible. Thanks.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I appreciate the sportsmanship ano, I really do.

I haven't looked at the turns; I'd like to second that, with only pythium allowed to upload his turn.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Well, I hope this issue is decided by tomorrow morning (GMT). Our team is very unlikely to have something different from what it has now and so I think our guys will not object.
We have looked at the turns but obviously we won't change anything, believe me. If I awake in the morning and there'll be a rehost (but please no later!!), that will be absolutely fine.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Actually, I changed the timer to the requested setting then restarted the game.
That didnt match the exact time that was requested so Septimius said he wanted the game to host at the time it should have regardless of the counter. Unless "or else convey the request to Gandalf before the next turn hosts" which never happened.

Various people saw times on the counter from days to hours to minutes while trying to comply. And then I see lots of discussion on it here. But now the game has crashed from signal overload so woulda, coulda, shoulda is rather moot.
We await the game master.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Gandalf, the problem is that it is not good when game is set to host at some time (even temporarily though it was never widely announced that it IS temporarily and nobody here, I think, really knows how the games are hosted at your server and what options admin has) and then this time is suddenly shrunk a lot. I'm sure, I'd be very angry if I happened to be at numahr's place (although this, probably, couldn't have happened to me as I try to always read everything carefully)

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

anyone know whats going on?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

You mean not being able to log in? Nope, but you should be able to look at the turn if you're getting e-mail reminders.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

huh? I've never gotten an email reminder

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

You'll have to ask Gandalf to send 'em first.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I've just had a conversation with Gandalf.

The no rollback policy stands. To allow for the time the game was shut down the current turn (24) will host approximately 48 from now.

To institute delays on Gandalf's server via direct connect, the game must be shut down and restarted. Adjustments need to be made in the various scripts running the game to handle delays. And those adjustments have to be made by Gandalf upon restarting the game and again when the game sucessfully hosts. So what you see on the external timer will not always be accurate until Gandalf adjusts it. I am hoping this lag time will be short, but that's the way Gandalf must apparently do it via direct connect. The last turn actually lasted another 4 hours past when the 56 hours was supposed to expire, so 60 hours had elapsed before the turn actually hosted.

I had left word with Gandalf to allow him to extend the turn if another formal request for a delay was received before the turn was supposed to have hosted. He did not recieve one. I saw the message from Numahr but as I stated, I did not take this as a specific request for a delay. Sorry. Feel free to disagree with the decision, I spent more than an hour in conversation with Gandalf, and this was decided as the best course of action.

I will let Gandalf go into more detail about the specifics of the date math that needs to be done when handling delays. But this is currently handled manually, so Gandalf has to be up and about to make adjustments to timer.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

The server copy of the .map file will not be made available for inspection, at least not till after the game.

Regarding your issue, I see all the mountain provinces I added when I load up the game. The freshwater terrain masks don't show up in the game for some reason (and I actually don't recall if they supposed to show an icon or not) but I can confirm they ARE in my version of the .map file (also visable via the map editor) which Gandalf was given.

If you load up your turn and right click on province 212 for example (in the north center of the map (3 provinces down from the north edge), and then move your cursor to the info box in the top left corner over the mountain icon, you will see that is indeed a mountain province not a border mountain. I can provide a screenshot if you are still having an issue. Someone else feel free to confirm this observation. I'd hate to think I am going mad.:D

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I have to say that I am little disappointed by the way the situation was handled.

I would have asked for a delay if information delivered to me had been transparent, i.e. if the official "external timer" had not lied to me. But I trusted it, and arranged complicated professional / personal life parameters so that I would connect to the servor in the timeframe given to me by the timer. In no circumstances I would stale, and if information had been clear about how much time was actually left, I would have dealt differently with all the afore mentioned constraints so that either I would send a delay request, or more probably, send my turn.

So what happened?
- Yesterday morning I got instructions for my turn from our new captain. I was in office, where no connection to the servor is possible: I checked the time left, it was 48h. So I thought "OK, I can play my turn and send it toonight."
- Then unexpected RL life constraints popped up, preventing me from accessing the internet the evening. Based on the informaiton I had accessed earlier, I know I could still send my turn the next morning and not be outside of the timeframe.
- At this point, let me remind you that depending on our RL constraints, some of us have different access to the internet. So I have to organize my schedule according to the info I get from the admin, relying on it, which is perfectly OK for me as long as the info I get when I have one access is not a false one.
- Then this morning I run again out of luck and my whole neighborhood got an electricity blackout. Again, if I knew that hosting interval had changed, I could find a solution, like finding an internet cafe. But I knew that electricity would come back before the hosting time I had seen 24 hours ago was over.
- And finally... disaster, when I eventually connected, I realized that the information based on which I had organized myself and made difficult decisions during 24 hours, had been a false one.

Now I feel very bad for having staled and jeopardized the whole game for my team, it is not like a regular MP game where each player is responsible only for himself, my situation has now consequences for the whole team and the whole delicate game balance.

Moreover, I have the feeling that I created this situation although I based my decisions on official information provided to me by a webpage set up by admins of the game.

So, in light of the events described, I would like to kindly request the admin to:
- consider again re-hosting the turn in question;
- provide reliable, transparent information to the players on hosting intervals from now on, and in particular avoid manual shortening of hosting intervals announced on the external timer.

I hope these requests will sound reasonable.

As a final note, in case these requests are not considered, I will continue the game, taking into consideration the unreliable nature of the external timer and following very closely the more complicated forum to know what is exactly happening with delays. But continuing the game will be more a matter of having a responsible behavior towards my team mate and all of you, rather than having fun.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Septimius
Why are you against the rehost? It would be fair under these circumstances as it was definitely not numahr's fault. I will also accept either decision but it is a very bad precedent.

In general, I second numahr's requests, particularly the second one. Also, if there're problems with restarting the server/changing the timer they should be publicly announced before the weird situation like the one we have now occurs. You may not know, but I will tell you that in no game I ever knew hosting intervals were shortened in the way like it happened here.
I would really hate such **** happen to me so I definitely second Usurpers' request for a rehost. But you may ignore, of course (it seems to me that your strict "no rehosts" intention hinders the flexibility that is a necessary characteristic of any good leader).

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Also, after the consultation with my teammates I may say that our team in general supports the rehost.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I would like to add some additional information for the admin's consideration.

- the game is specific, with a need to coordinate between team members and a captain ;
- but this turn, in particular, was indeed very special: a change in captaincy in our team. I had actually prepared a turn based on previously defined strategy just a few hours after the hosting; but did not upload it in the knowledge that a new captain would probably change the team's strategy.
- it took some time for the new captain to confirm his position, to analyze the situation, debate with us on our forum and then formulate the turn's strategy;
- in this context all the events I described above took place (unexpected RL events and failure in electricity supply), with which I could perfectly cope IF either of the following two had not occured: change in captaincy AND wrong information provided by the external timer.

One can see that the parameters are indeed totally exceptional, with a very unlikely combination of many events combining to create the situation. So if an exceptional decision is made in view of the situation, I doubt it will ruin the overall structure and rules generally applicable to the game, as every one will understand it was made due to exceptional circumstances.

Thanks for your kind consideration, and don't doubt that I will abide anyway by any decision made.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

How gracious of you, thanks. :)

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

I would also be for a rehost since everybody seems to accept it and we are here to have fun, not to go for victory at any cost. btw I haven't check my turn yet.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Septimius
In case you still insist on "no rehost", please postpone hosting by 24h because all our team is waiting for your decision and thus not doing anything. Also, I have a working day tomorrow.
And, obviously, the same applies to the Usurpers

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

Not only that .. I haven't gotten a turn.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. In Progress.
 

When I add fresh water tags they show up... Also.. I've looked at all 35 mountain provinces I have access to .. and found 1 mountain.

This hardly sounds like the change I requested.