Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did I gave the impression I thought it was a bad thing? If so, then I was even more unclear than what I thought.

Using the Heroes is indeed a choice, if you prefer to play "safely" and then use them, but you won't have the good events (or potentially good events, as some events can be either good or bad under different circumstances). On the other hand, you could take a chance in NOT using these Heroes, and then everything could happen from a "Oops, your main system has just been destroyed by a Nova along with your fleet" to a "The warp point the invading fleet was planning to use as just been closed by strange forces". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As I am speaking of such events, you mentioned a Warp Opened event. Is this one working? I remember a post which stated that this one wasn't working with vanilla SE:IV at least. Events are quite hard to grasp in SE:IV and, well, random as they are supposed to be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I didn't see you edited your message a few Posts back as I answered before your edit then.

I spoke about a possible problem with these facilities improving the reproduction rates. (Gestation Vats and Medical Labs namely) I am not sure of the exact effect of these ones with AIC, and how they are working with Homeworlds which have the "Population will reproduce in this system faster" ability. I will wait for the formula to actually understand how these facilities are working. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (I am currently playing an Organic and Crystalline race)

Hopefully I should be less obscure this time.

[ September 19, 2003, 20:00: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS, I guess it could be addressed already. What about these kind of events:

Type := Planet - Conditions Change
Severity := Medium
Effect Amount := -20

Which changes a mild planet into deadly in one turn. It looks like this effect is ten times more destructive than expected. Do you plan to change them effect amount-wise ?

Like:

Type := Planet - Conditions Change
Severity := Medium
Effect Amount := -2

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

You are talking of the 4.01 Events file test a few weeks ago.

Yea, that event was droped a few weeks ago, with Events v4.02 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I am testing AIC Events v4.05 now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Cantains:

Type := Planet - Conditions Change
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := -5
Message To := ~

Type := Planet - Conditions Change
Severity := High
Effect Amount := 10
Message To := ~

I am still considering keepings the AIC v3.02-:
Type := Planet - Conditions Change
Severity := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := -10
Message To := ~

What are your thoughts?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 21:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

As originally posted by Alneyan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please consider, that the Heroes Epic is for an individual System. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Change Bad Event Chance - System
Value1 = Percentage change in chance for bad event for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 =


Based on our scenarios, I could (or not) have the Hero that further lowered the chance in the Home System as to further avoid that Star Destroyed and on that remote and newly colonized system wanting to reach for another Star, I WOULD want a Hero to increase the chance of that system; preferably, the open warp event http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From the origonal AIC events file to AIC 3.2 released now, the open warp event does work fine, in a standard game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, I also assume (only) it works with no-warp games, you may have a point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In addition, I am unsure if it will with this scenareo.
The System Gravitational Shield now prevents warp points closing within the system. This prevents warp points closing into or out of the system by all players.
~ ~ ~
In addition, I beleave MM se4 has fixed the Errors below from past history.
~The Rare error on warp command execution.
~You cannot open a warp point into the same system that it
originates from.
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excellent choice, it also mine; when I am in a competitive LAN game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 00:39: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Hmm, let's see,

Alneyan wrote:

The values for the conditions and their meanings:
0.0-0.2: Deadly
0.3-0.4: Harsh
0.5-0.9: Unpleasant
1.0-1.2: Mild
1.3-1.4: Good
1.5: Optimal
The effect amount 10 would be still too much, I guess. I assume the effect amount is divided by 10 which means a 1.0 Mild planet would be reduced to 0.0 Deadly. In my opinion, one event should not do more than one step in one turn. That means, the max. effect amount should be not more than 4.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

OK, in the least we will be going with the –5 and the +10 Planet - Conditions Change event.

With the additions of more good and beneficial events, removing the –10 is further still warranted. Agreed, PTF http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

= =
Also, proposed for AIC v4.0:

The level 4 Climate Control Facility will increace to +6
The level 5 Climate Control Facility will increace to +12

[ September 20, 2003, 00:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

originally posted by Alneyan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I here you, it is mind boggling to me even now, as well. I wish I saved my notes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This is what I meant Last night this would be a lot to recall; Thanks for the opportunity and I will resume…

This will be just AIC Organic and generic AIC Facilities.
This will include your home system with the Agrarian Cultural Centers also to include a system without the Initial Home AIC Agrarian Cultural Center.
As the application apply and may or not interact or interface amongst each other.
Characteristics & Cultural Modifiers

Orgaincs Race Facilities in AIC
~Medical Lab
~Gestation Vats
~Replicant Center
~Planet Lore
Organic Generation Facility
Organics Generation Settlement
Organics Generation Colony
Organics Generation Center
~Macrobiotic City
~Agrarian Cultural Center

Non Organic; AIC Facilities that may contribute to Population Growth for yor current game.
~Climate Control Facility
~Urban Pacification Center
~Citizen Databank Complex
~Intelligence Agency
~System University Complex
~Bio Med Facility
~Agrarian Society
~Agrarian Ecosystem
~Cities
~City of Crystal
~Megalopolis
~Metropolis
~World Cultural Center
~Population Center
~Crystal Race Cultural Center

~ Denotes this may Effect Reproduction when built or scraped. One must also consider that when scraped you will lose any inherent positive effects that Facility may offer also when one builds a facility from the same family for example Gestation Vats III just for the sole purpose to increase Reproduction that this upon completion will make Gestation Vats I and II obsolete as it applies to Reproduction.

However, when one builds the Gestation Vats or an Agrarian Cultural Center this will not yield the Agrarian Ecosystem or a Medical Lab obsolete on that Planet or that System, please right click the facility and make your choices well, you will be confronted with many.

Culture Centers and some Urban Centers will yield an Initial bonus for reproduction when playing AIC. Therefore, if you have Priorities, surly a reproduction facility can wait until you wish to commit some planets facility slot in that system, if you decide at all, considering you have this inherent bonus from other Urban Center. If any Planets reproduction information is also desired; you will notice this on that planets info screen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In addition, most Racial level 2 support Facility, certainly level 3; will have an increased benefit of any one inherent bonus you may expect from your AIC Urban Center.

= = =

Characteristics & Cultural Modifiers will effect Reproduction Values with your Empire Setup.

Reproduction Value: Every percentage point you increase your reproduction increase the planets reproduction by one percentage point. So if you choose 110% reproduction a typical planet could increase its reproduction from 10% to 20%. Thus what seems like a 10% improvement (100% to 110%) is actually a 100% improvement. A 5% change in Environmental Resistance equates to a 1% change in Reproduction and Happiness. If you set both ER and Reproduction down, your population may never be able to grow. Population will reproduce based on their reproduction rate (per year) and this rate is affected by their happiness, their environmental resistance and the planet conditions. Each turn is 0.1 years and is defined as a game “month”. (Reproduction rate per turn) = (reproduction rate per year) / 10. The amount of new population increase per turn = (population amount) x (reproduction rate per turn) or 1M, whichever is greater. Therefore you always get at least 1M increase per turn. Exception: reproduction rate can go to 0% if planet conditions are “Deadly”. Note that if there is more than one race of population on a planet, you get a minimum increase of 1M of each race per turn.T he actual condition of the Planet Colonized effects reproduction rate. Happiness affects resource production, construction rate, and reproduction Population will not reproduce when in cargo on a ship or base. They only reproduce when on a planet. Plagued planets have 0% reproduction rate, and get large happiness penalties each turn they are plagued. Enemy ships in your Systems Derectly and inderectly effect reproduction. AIC Starliner Concept as it relates to organic costs and for the Organic race; the abundance of this resource http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

= = =

To be told however, as a ~TIP~. Namely, The Gestation Vats will yield the HIGHST level of a Reproduction Modifier when playing AIC, but will not yield any System Happiness or System Plague Prevention, as you would receive form the Medical Labs or the immense attributes the Players receive from an advanced Urban Center or Culture Center, when playing AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

On a final note: There is no Facility equaled to the se4 or AIC >Replicant Center, as it applies to the direct impact of your Populations augment.
= = = = = = = =
To all:
With any of my Posts that may of sounded patronizing, I apologize and is unintentional.
Some times when I reply, I add other information you may know, or may not want, I try to also post for all that may be interested.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 03:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

i has looking the AI Campaign alterations in the data files and found that the Towns facility have the description that it can hold 5kt of Org and Rad, while the ability value only set it to 3kt. Is this correct?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Erm...

Every percentage point you increase your reproduction increases the planet's reproduction rate by one percentage point.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thanks Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It did sound like the planet was increasing.

RATE does better explain http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 03:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, I would support the removal of the -10 event which could be quite annoying on a Homeworld. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (Only a Good or an Optimal Planet would not go Deadly with this event)

As for the population, I will run a few tests with AIC, as I would believe the reproduction rates are ten times lower in AIC than in the vanilla game. (Which means reproduction only occurs at the end of each year instead of each month) But I am not sure how the +x% of reproduction rate is working, and I am not even sure if my obversations are really correct and acurate.

Finally, as for the Heroes, they will need a facility slot I gather? Then it will make the decision a bit harder as you will lose a valuable slot which could have been used for, say, decreasing Maintenance in this system. (Or perhaps I am the only one who is ever lacking open slots for facilities? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) I do like them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Partial Event Recap:

Some have said that the low severity vanilla se4 –5 will put a planet to deadly Conditions.

Some have said that the vanilla se4 Climate Control will never help a Planet out of deadly rendering a planet useless for the entire game.

One has suggested leaving the traditional AIC –10 and removing the vanilla se4 Star Destroyed that is even more sever then a deadly planet, because many feel that Home World Planets rarely get hit by Events.

Many have said your stating HW Planet will never be hit by High and Cat events EVER.

Some have said Home Systems as it relates to the System where your stating HW Planet is located; may lack se4 inherent protections from the Event System Destroyed.

Some have said that if you add other events as in AIC 2.0; even (mild) Catastrophic ones, that odds of being hit with a from Star Destroyed is greatly reduced.

= = =
The decision to remove some of the AIC redundant BAD events, is so when additional AIC redundant Good events are added the Event Occurrences Percentages may be more manageable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

We need some more positive Ideas for good events.

What are some thoughts for some good events, to be added?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 15:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I can answer to your first two questions. A -5 event may reduce some Homeworld to Deadly level, or, rather:

0.0-0.2: Deadly
0.3-0.4: Harsh
0.5-0.9: Unpleasant
1.0-1.2: Mild
1.3-1.4: Good
1.5: Optimal

According to this chart, all Harsh planets will be Deadly (with a value of 0.0) while half the Unpleasant planets will become Deadly (with a value between 0.0/0.1 and 0.2) The other ones will simply see their conditions drop. Granted, a -5 or a -20 event on an Upleasant planet (with a value of 0.5) will be equally as destructive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, you have mentioned the possibility to add +8% and +16% conditions improvement facilities. If so, you would need only eight years with the latest facility to go from Deadly (0.0/0.1) to Harsh (0.3) compared to 39 years with the regular +3% facility of the vanilla game. And of course, you could still add a few additional facilities to speed up the process.

As for these events, well... They are only appalling when they target your Homeworld. If that is a matter to you, perhaps you could add a condition improvement ability on the regular Cultural Centers but just for the Homeworld? (Unlike the Religious CC, whose ability is working on the whole system) That is, only if you fear this might be an issue. But as there will also be Heroes reducing strongly the odds of events, you may think of leaving the -10 event. (I forgot to mention these Heroes when speaking of these events before) Your choice there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Good events are another matter, as far as I know, there are more bad events than good ones available, is that right JLS? It would make adding such events quite hard. I will give it a thought nevertheless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by Alneyan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Alneyan, the proposed decision to raise the conditions level 4 and 5 improvement facilities to +6 and +12, is in fact solely based from your time consuming research and should assist in raising most Planet levels to optimal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC Players have benefited from this when we consider the Cultural Centers on an AIC Homeworld has only 3 logical free slots available and only 2 when one is a natural Merchant that prospers with that additional HW CC.

This we all will appreciate

Thanks
That was excellent work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 15:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, your +8 and +16 sounds even better.

What do the players feel a realistic number would be, based on a difficult case scenario (HARSH HW) on a HW having 3 slots to be used and with the final slot the player would temporarily replace the Planets SY, after he builds some BSY’s of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Proposed Climate Control Facility levels:

Climate Control Facility I = +1
Climate Control Facility II = +2
Climate Control Facility III = +4
Climate Control Facility IV = +8
Climate Control Facility V = +16

Results:
3 Vanilla se4 Climate Control level III = +9
3 AIC Climate Control level V = +48

AIC now with only 3 Climate Control Facility V now has the numbers of a Medium Planets worth of 16 Vanilla se4 Climate Control III’s.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 15:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Oh, the aforementioned tests were not that long to do, the longest part was the writing of the Posts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (And the correction of my mistakes that is)

Hmm as it is +12 (and not +16 as I thought, don't ask me why), you will need 10 years instead of 8 years to go from Deadly to Harsh. Not too bad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And 24 years to go from the lowest value (Deadly 0.0/0.1) to the highest (Optimal 1.5), while 24 years were just enough to go from Deadly to Harsh with a +5 facility. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Well, for your new proposal, +48 means you could go from Deadly to Optimal in no more than seven years, if you consider all the facilities are built the same year. If you add such facilities, then you should indeed leave the -10 event. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (It also means 4 or 5 years depending on the value to go from Harsh to Optimal)

*Stops playing with figures and resumes his game of AIC no-warp instead*

(Edited because of a mistake with numbers, I forgot a year each time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif )

[ September 20, 2003, 15:55: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ... come back; I want to talk some more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 15:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ... come back; I want to talk some more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's asked so nicely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (But I could do both at the same time though) *Pities the poor ones who might have to try to catch up the thread* *Smirks*

[ September 20, 2003, 16:04: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I am working on the Reproduction replys, now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You have many, very strong points http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed. I reconsider, one of the cat events is planet core instability. With that in mind, a catastrophic -10 effect on conditions is still a nightmare, but it is still much better than core instability. You see, I am not sure what I want...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I recall an implemented "use facility" switch in the command line, but it does not work. An on/off toggle switch for facilities would be a nice SE5 feature also, very useful for mining facilities in limited resources games.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will never say that again, it can be reproduced easily with a 2 system galaxy, one player, F12 button test and a reduced events.txt to get only core and plasma instabilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is wrong. The planet will eventually come out of deadly, it just takes a lot of time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, AIC in not modeled exactly like vanilla se4 in many ways.
As with this instance, yes; for a Population census; AIC does check the Reproduction frequency on a yearly basis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Benchmarked with all characteristics at default of 100%, Neutral Culture, Human Player, Organic Race (All else is at defaults)

With Vanilla, se4 your starts will be about 10% and at any start will increase only as per the Planets Condition.
If one was able, to start with the Vanilla se4 Gestation Vats III then it may be only 13% reproduction rates, and at any start will increase only as per the Planets Condition.

However with AIC and without Gestation Vats, your start should be about 13% and at any start will increase only as per the Planets Condition.
If one was able, to start with the AIC Gestation Vats III then it may be 16% reproduction rates, and at any start will increase only as per the Planets Condition; for example good, mild or Optimal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

With above true.
= = = = =

Now as a simple test for others to prove AIC Cutures Centers do have the a +x factor on the Home Planets reproduction rate if desired.

Lets test this with a benchmark of all characteristics at default of 100%, Neutral Culture, Human Player and Organic Race (All else is at defaults)
Start game and review planet

We now have reproduction Rate x%
Now please delete all Agrarian Culture Centers only and you will find that (x) has just been reduced by one.
After noting this, please delete all Culture Centers from the HW Planet, you will find a further reduction from (x) of one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As you can see it does work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You got it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now we can raise the AIC default base of Empire Starting Percent Reproduction of 11, to anything with in reason. If players would prefer for example 15% as a base, this will add more spice v4.0. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This would increase the above (x) numbers by 4%.

What are your thoughts?

[ September 20, 2003, 19:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Many have said your stating HW Planet will never be hit by High and Cat events EVER.
~ ~ ~ ~

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PTF, do you now pool your voice with players that may believe that actual High and Catastrophic events DO affect the Human Players Home World Planet ?

This would be contrary to your initial finding from: <a href="http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009929;p=7" target="_blank">Are homeplanets affected by high/catastrophic events?
</a>

At 90% event Chance: and with a practical least of more then 1 player in your test; result was:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[ September 20, 2003, 19:39: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have to. Yesterday I performed some single player quick tests (2 systems) with weird results. The very first run (high frequency) has not shown even one event within 100 years. But from the 2nd run on (with different event frequencies, but everything else remained the same) all of them ended with homesystem star destroyed within the first 10 years. If there would be a hardcoded homesaver, this should not have happened. In some cases, which seem to be dependend on some unknown random start situation of the program, the homeworlds are safe from high/cat events, like in my 800 year simulation. Probably some day we find this unknown start setup... It could be a kind of easteregg subprocedure from MM, that sometimes is active, sometimes not.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS, as events are a really weird thing, perhaps we should try to set a few tests in different conditions to see what happens? (A test with Low chance for an event, another with Medium and High, yet another with two systems and two human players, another with 255 systems and 20 empires and so on) I mean, there are so many weirdness with the events that we might consider *every* possibility. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (And of course, all these tests should use the same file just in case) Hopefully we might make sense of all these contradictory results. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (Like the case of 0.0 with the planet conditions for instance)

As for the reproduction rate, yes I did understand afterwards. I have to admit I expected something much more complicated. I am even quite disappointed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Joking apart, what do you think about the Reproduction ability? Am I the only one who thinks it is too cheap to raise from 100 to 110? (And perhaps also Environemental Resistance)

And as for a raise of the basic reproduction rate, hmm, very good question indeed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I would say yes, as reproduction is only really useful on well populated worlds (above a billion of inhabitants), as a reproduction value of 10% means an inhabitant each month for a world which has 100 million settlers. (So the minimal value) You do need quite a few inhabitants before the reproduction value is important. *Will ponder on the topic* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Environmental Resitance is not too cheap... it takes 5% in it to get a 1% bonus to reproduction and happiness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PTF, are you saying that in your opinion this Ability does not work?

Change Bad Event Chance - System
Value1 = Percentage change in chance for bad event for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 =

This is basicly how the Fate shrine and the Heroes Epic Facility is laid out.

[ September 20, 2003, 19:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

No, that is not what he said at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif He was more talking about a way to turn a facility on or off without having to scrap and rebuild it.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Sorry and Good point PTF, I will keep the cost down so "scrap and rebuild" will be near insignificant http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 22:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by Alneyan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, if one wants to publish a serious test finding, then a benchmark with parameters must be established and agreed upon by some majority; first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Then secondly and most of all; not influenced until that test is completed and published. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Would all not agree?

Also to say, I very much do concur and agree with PTFs initial test results from the High/Cat Thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Home World is less likly to be effected by high and Cat events.
His Lucky versus Cursed results
AIC having to many rebellions from the v4.01 events files; at 90% Chance considerer

Although I would have preferred a 40% test, I have found PTF’s test very successful and informative, and to date many tendencies I may have in regards to the Events file adjustments will be subject from his Initial Test.

Alneyan, it would truly be appreciated if you would run some tests of your own, with varying and logical in-game parameters as PTF did with his 90% 4 Player test, if time would permit you.
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Concerning Charicterteristic, Culture and Trait costs, and their modifiers AIC will be implementing PvK’s Traits Balance mod, PvK has put a lot of time and thought into this and I do expect much of this to be integrated into AIC.

Considered discussion really should be based on this.

Obviously all cannot be used or totally intact, but as a tool to start any project with, it is my opinion there can be no finer.

>PvK's Traits Balance Mod<
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is intentional for AIC and we would like to consider any real effect on this, that may alter its integrity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 23:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

For the reproduction characteristic, its cost to increase seems to be 50 points in the PvK balance mod, that is cheaper than in AIC. Granted, I will keep such criticisms from when you have done adapting PvK Balance Mod for AIC 4.0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (A very... erh... balanced mod incidentally) And yes, to have low reproduction on not very populated worlds is intentional for Proportions and AIC.

As for the events, well, chances settings have been reported to alter the results, but is that pure randomness (not likely) or is there something hidden there? At least, I believe we can all agree Homeworlds *can* be targeted by events under certain circumstances at least? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But how unfrequent would it be with Heroes and the new events file for AIC 4.0, with numerous Empires? I fear there will be a lot of testing and tweaking with regards to these events, except if someone manages to find out the way they are working. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (Of course, if you need me for testing something, I would gladly do so. As long as you don't ask me to do actual modding. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Veneration was presented with {Can Be Removed := False} as such so players may add the proposals to there existing AIC v3.02 as in a way they may utilize and play with it.

However in the Released Version, {Can Be Removed := TRUE} will be the setting and as such Players may remove Veneration from the [Technology allowed Menu] in that game.
In other words, the Heroes Epic can be removed from a multiplayer game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Reference
Name := Veneration
Group := Applied Science
Description := Civilization Heros, Idols and Gods dabble with the events.
Maximum Level := 5
Level Cost := 1000
Start Level := 1
Raise Level := 0
Racial Area := 7
Unique Area := 0
Can Be Removed := True
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1

[ September 20, 2003, 20:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

BUMPED for Edit:

Originally posted by Alneyan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, if one wants to publish a serious test finding, then a benchmark with parameters must be established and agreed upon by some majority; first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Then secondly and most of all; not influenced until that test is completed and published. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Would all not agree?

EDIT:
Also to say, I very much do concur and agree with PTFs initial test results from the High/Cat Thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Home World is less likly to be effected by high and Cat events.
His Lucky versus Cursed results
AIC having to many rebellions from the v4.01 events files; at 90% Chance considerer

Although I would have preferred a 40% test, I have found PTF’s test very successful and informative, and to date many tendencies I may have in regards to the Events file adjustments will be subject from his Initial Test.

Alneyan, it would truly be appreciated if you would run some tests of your own, with varying and logical in-game parameters as PTF did with his 90% 4 Player test, if time would permit you.

Again one more time, I want to thank PTF for his time with that test, we all did get much from it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Except that recent findings show that his whole first test game might be invalid... what with the total randomness of some games having tons of events and some having almost none with his latest tests. It is possible that that first game fell into the "almost none" Category (stretched for 90% events occurance, of course...). Do not discount the bizarre nature of computer random mathematics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 21:52: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you speak is true, and valued, as you and I have discussed in recent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 22:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually Pvks MOD as you see posted; is based for a se4 interface and hence based on Population Mass := 5

So as for Proportions and AIC; they have a base of Population Mass :=1000 and if I am not mistaken P&N the original and mother of all Population scaled MODS had a base Population Mass :=750

So adaptations will have to made for AIC and yes you in-put will absolutely be needed.

It is fair to be said, your Posts here on the AIC to date all have been tough and to the point, and all of have been FAIR.

So when you say I will keep such criticisms from when you have done

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

My reply is; we will value your input now and not after the Airplane has left the ground, if you know what I am attempting to say here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will agree on this: I have found a lot of disagreement, thru out the forum in regards to events.

In my mind, there is only one way to balance your Events file to the results you desire for a mod.
That is to play/test your Events file in real time with real average setups and keep testing and log game after game, until you are happy with the results.

Then put it thru an AI test to see conformity If you are happy, release it to friends and then listen carefully to the feed back.

If you have faith in PTF’s test as I do, you would say it is unlikely for High/Cat Planet events to affect the Homeworld. However, I would like to see more and with different and varying parameters.

It is agreed that in all circumstances that a Home System cannot dodge a Star Destroyed event in your se4 game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
A CBEC of -99% for the Home System may help remedy this and will certainly stop all inter Planet Events. In addition to this it may also contribute little for game play with-in the big picture http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This how I been applying my free time, balancing the newly reordered and with additional good events in conjunction with this past weeks introduction of the Hero’s Epic.
~
In regards to dispersed events true, this is dependent on total Players.

The Occurrence Percentages is by the pre-game Chance settings also to be considered is the actual total of events that could be selected in the Events file.

The Heroes Epic will apply only to chance in that System, as did the Fate shrine.

However, if the Systems Event fails the CBEC dice roll, I am unsure where it goes at that point.
If anyone has this information, please post.
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I sure can use your help, and this is exactly what you will be doing (actual modding)
In the short time, I have known you, you have influenced several changes, and we all appreciate that.

So lets make it happen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 20, 2003, 23:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

P&N has a population mass of 20...

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

It was actually much easier than what I initially believed, each facility is increasing the annual reproduction rate of the planet by X% and that is basically all. (A planet with a reproduction rate of 10% means 15% with the best facility for example)

However, isn't Reproduction too cheap to buy then? You only need 1000 points for having 110 in your Reproduction ability, which means a +10% increase of your reproduction rates. That is twice as efficient as the Organic facilities, and you do not even need to do researches or to build facilities. (On the other hand, every point after 110 costs 200 points, and this cost seems fine for me)

You will lack the Replicant Center though, which gives an additional million of settlers each turn, so perhaps this lack balances everything? (I have to admit I do not really find this facility useful, so I cannot speak about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Finally, some values for the reproduction increases are lacking in the descriptions. (Mainly the cities, Cultural Centers, that is to say the Colonial Settlements, and the Replicant Centers) The problem being when you are wondering if you should build this Gestation Vat or no, as you don't know how efficient your Homeworld is for increasing the reproduction rate. If you want, I will give you the list of such facilities and the values for them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

So. As you have asked input, here you are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

* For the events: I would believe that Homeworlds cannot/are seldom targeted by High or Catastrophic events according to numerous tests. However, the Homeworlds are protected, NOT the system in which they are. It means they can be destroyed because of a Star Destruction, as a star is targeted by this event instead of a planet. Of course, this hypothesis will be wrong if anyone here has saw a player homeworld destroyed by the Planet - Destroyed event. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the actual tests, is there a way to log all what happens in a given game without having to actually play? PTF spoke of logs, but I am not sure if they can do that and how you can activate them. I will run a few tests, hoping there will be no weirdness to alter the results. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

* For the reproduction rates: (I haven't delved yet in the other changes in PvK Balance Mod) The cost to increase Reproduction in AIC 3.2 is 1000 points for 10%, while the basic rate was around 10%. So it means a +100% increase for 1100 points, whereas the best other facility requires 1500 points for a +50% increase (that is, +5% of reproduction rate). You can achieve such results by raising Reproduction to 106 (the Threshold) for 600 points, and then Environemental Resistance to 120 for 500 points. (I forgot to see that ER was cheaper than Reproduction after Threshold before in AIC)

On the other hand, with PvK Balance Mode, you can raise Reproduction to 110 and Environemental Resistance to 150 for the same 1100 points. (That is a +20% increase in the reproduction rates) Even if you increase the basic reproduction rates by 4% (that is, a basic rate of 15%), an increase of 20% means an improvement by more than two times. (+133%) On a world with 400 million inhabitants, a reproduction rate of 35% means an increase of 14 millions each year, which is better than the Replicant Centers (10 millions a year). Therefore, the Replicant Centers would only be useful on worlds with few settlers (below 300 millions) or in conjunction with an improved Reproduction if you can spare the points.

Finally, on a Homeworld inhabited by 2,000 million settlers, +35% reproduction rate means 70 million additionaly inhabitants each year, compared to 30 millions for +15%. That is quite an asset if you have many colonies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So, perhaps you could consider improving the efficiency of Replicant Centers or decrease the researches needed to be able to build them? (You need level 4 in Organinc Engineering and Organinc Manipulation for now) Maybe a second level for this facility, "creating" 2 million workers each turn, could be made? (Especially if you increase the basic reproduction rates)

And as for the reproduction/environemental resistance at the Empire creation, I would support an increase to both Reproduction and Environemental Resistance characteristics, so that the cost needed to have a +10% bonus to reproduction rate should be around 1500 points. (It would also depend on other factors) But this is an approximative value as deciding of a cost to increase/decrease a characteristic is quite a hard job.

Obviously, all my post was only suggestions and my own opinion, so feel free to do what you wish with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, this why I continue to advocate keeping the original AIC events file from the past. We have never seen any problems or bugs when actually playing a game with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Alneyan, the proposed decision to raise the conditions level 4 and 5 improvement facilities to +6 and +12, is in fact solely based from your time consuming research and should assist in raising most Planet levels to optimal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC Players have benefited from this when we consider the Cultural Centers on an AIC Homeworld has only 3 logical free slots available and only 2 when one is a natural Merchant that prospers with that additional HW CC.

This we all will appreciate

Thanks
That was excellent work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sweet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Way to go Alneyan

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now we are two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

[quote]Originally posted by JLS:

Obviously all cannot be used or totally intact, but as a tool to start any project with, it is my opinion there can be no finer.

>PvK's Traits Balance Mod<
- - - -
[quote]
What will you do with AST. Do you plan to drop the cost in AIC?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No Warp Point games are boring http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Try No Warp with FINITE, now this is a challenge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Actually, I will take up JLS’S suggestion to try No Warp COMBINED with NOT all warp Points Connected. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
This with a regenerated Centurion Map to my liking and for my total pleasure, I will play with FINITE resources http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, are you going to let him get away with this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I see what you mean.

However, opening warps a to a few opponents that leads back no mater how many systems, directly over your Home World only makes for a Last stand and that will be so much easer for your opponent and less time for you to recover or even diplomacy; as your HW may become Blockaded or even captured. With few to no options left. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Not to mention if this was just a recon in force from a friendly AI Player, the damage is done, he did not know what was on the other side of that Last warp, tif he could only say “well sorry about our ships attacking your Home World” >”it not to late for a trade agreement is it” http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

If you open Warps over your Home World and then stack Warp points in other system; theoretically your opponents can attack in one turn from the other side of the map to your Home World in one turn with no worry about its fuel supply.
Repeating the worst case, but very possible scenarios above.

As it is today with some successful military doctrines, you may consider a blocking, diVersions, and or holding actions. Before contact and well before your opponent can approach your best terrain.
= = =
A possible strategy; but may come back to bite you. With first contact, maybe if we give a new friendly or serine AI Player the copy of your Home System Charts, as a token. He may avoid your HS with a large force if it knows what it is, this may be worth a try if you find that the above scenarios may come into play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It sounds like it might work, but you will not see me doing it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, are you keeping the Change Bad Event Chance on the Relig. Culture Centers?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to (PV) this is the textbook answer from Frequently Asked Questions.

Basically, the FAQ will apply for all Human Players that play AIC. With the exception of Cities and Urban Centers Homeworlds inclusive; they afford Commerce (Imperial Trade if you will) to the Human Player and is thereby unaffected by PV to a degree in AIC.

Loosely, this application of Commerce is applied also to the entire economy for the AI on AIC and is thereby NOT effected by poor Planet Values. Directly that is

I will follow-up with how I Interpret the AI perceptions on some PV applications and AI scenarios.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK, can you answer some of my questions now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

How do you "Interpret the AI perceptions on some PV applications and AI scenarios."

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed.

Great. I am tweaking 4.06beta Events now, when I am finished with it I will send it to ya http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
- - - -

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finding a formula to fit AIC v4.0, should not be to elusive for the below Characteristics:

Characteristic Environmental Resistance (you are suggesting a 33% increase over v3.02?)
Characteristic Reproduction (you are suggesting a 33% increase over v3.02?)
Characteristic Happiness
Characteristic Construction

Characteristic Maintenance (Always preferred as a High Price item in AIC) AIC -v3.0 also had Maintenance Aptitude Max Pct:= 120. But there was something missing when you could not reach godlike status, so v3.02 went to Max Pct := 130. However AIC v4.0 like v.3.02 will max out with Maintenance Aptitude Max Pct := 130 at 3000pts

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely

In addition, this attribute is very powerful; as it will reproduce actual Pop each turn and this will apply to every Colonized Planet for that entire System

reference
Change Population - System
Value1 = Population in M that will be added each turn for entire system.
Value2 =

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, it may be time to ease the Research requirements to build the Organic Race’s Replicant Center a little.

= = = =

With respect towards an additional Organics Replicant Center added to AIC, please consider:

SE4 complements the Organic Races with only 3 facilities: Replicant Center 1-3, Gestation Vats 1-3 and Medical Labs 1-3.

AIC Replicant Center only one level. However AIC also offers increased values for the basic Organics Facilities: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

AIC Gestation Vats 1-3 produce nearly double the Production rate to that of vanilla se4.

AIC Medical Labs has everything that Vanilla se4 has. In addition to a 20% higher Plague Prevention – System per/level increase and this starts at level one. AIC yields an over all effectiveness of 80% as opposed to Vanilla se4’s 60% for maximum System Plague Preventions.

~ ~ ~
In addition to above, AIC offers, more Organic Facilities then that of vanilla se4: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Organics Generation Settlement +
Organics Generation Colony +
Organics Generation Center +
Please compare the facilities with the AIC Non Organics Race Farming Facilities; you will notice a huge benefit with Organic Solar Generation, which the Organics doubly enjoy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
To point out that Solar Generation is a nice benefit for new Colonies, as it will yield very good Crop Harvests with much less people required http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . When compared to the other Resource Gathering (Specific) Facilities.

Planet Lore 1-3. That yields a modest 1 thru 3 percent towards the increase the entire Systems Planet Conditions Change.

Above plus the economic advantages enjoyed with affording Starliner Costs that propels a Human Player Organic Race towards early game growth and that leads to an inevitable productivity increase, sooner then non-Organic.

That is a lot on the Plus side http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
In my opinion, yes true the Organics have many different weapons, is this really a plus. Since, other then the Organic Armor and the 20kt Electric Discharge Weapon; they have to pack the same size ships as every on else.
On the Plus side, there is a lot to be said for the Missile technology that increases in conjunction with other weapons. When it comes to Point Defense, it is near Imposable to take out scores and scores of incoming Missiles fired at your fleet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also to mention but not to compare since every race has their individual Specific AIC Racial Urban Centers.
Macrobiotic City
Agrarian Cultural Center

Reference
Name := Farming Settlement
Description := Biological growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games farms have an added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := Resource Extraction
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 60
Cost Minerals := 1500
Cost Organics := 10
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Extraction
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 350 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 250
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 100
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

Name := Organics Generation Settlement
Description := Organic growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games, OG Farms have an extra added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := . Organic Facilities
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 60
Cost Minerals := 1500
Cost Organics := 150
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organic Engineering
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 400 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 200
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 200
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

= = =
Name := Farming Colony
Description := Biological growing facilities which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games farms have an added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := Resource Extraction
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 2
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 98
Cost Minerals := 2000
Cost Organics := 15
Cost Radioactives := 10
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Extraction
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 450 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 325
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 125
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

Name := Organics Generation Colony
Description := Organic growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games, OG Farms have an extra added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := . Organic Facilities
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 2
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 98
Cost Minerals := 2000
Cost Organics := 200
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organic Engineering
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 500 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 250
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 250
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
= = =

Name := Farming Center
Description := Large Scale biological growing facilities which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games farms have an added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := Resource Extraction
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 3
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 99
Cost Minerals := 2500
Cost Organics := 20
Cost Radioactives := 50
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Extraction
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 550 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 400
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 150
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

Name := Organics Generation Center
Description := Organic growing facility which generates organic materials from a planet's surface. In finite games, OG Farms have an extra added intrinsic value.
Facility Group := . Organic Facilities
Facility Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 3
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 99
Cost Minerals := 2500
Cost Organics := 250
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Organic Engineering
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Grows 600 organics each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 300
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 1
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 300
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0

[ September 22, 2003, 12:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

as Originally posted by GLV:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I understand most of what you and other Players have posted. However, you also must agree nothing that is ventured - is nothing to be gained? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To decrease Advanced Storage Techniques, this is an interesting question.

Please consider that decreasing AST by 1000 points will also give all the AI Gas Players in AIC:
Eee
Abbidon
Cryslonite
The now extra 1000 points to Spend on what ever, and many feel they get of to a great start as it is with the extra Culture Centers they do enjoy with either AST or Nat Merchant trait that is added to the Homeworld.
Also to consider, these extra points would impact balance of the other non-ast AI Players and the ast AI Players will still be as tough with you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

With that said, with the LAN Club players that beta tested AIC v1.0 thru v2.0; most of them felt they had to have the AST trait to compete against the other Human Players.
When the AST cost was raised, the number of players dropped to only a few that would take this trait, and moved on to other traits for example Organic or just purchased more aptitude. ANd this is also what PvK suggestes in the readme.

Actually, the same applied to Organics Races selections with in the LAN group, when there was 3 levels of Organic Replicant Centers and MASS:=1000; most said that was the clear choice for the Competitive edge.
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, some may disagree about N-W being Boring.
However some may also agree, you really have your hands full playing No-Warp in Finite.

Also note: In a No Warp COMBINED with NOT all warp Points Connected game there is a good chance that you will start with one opened adjacent System. If you also play with Neutrals, you may get lucky and have Tex, Cluck, Nultoh, or Bobroba next door from jump http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif to Trade with as well, so this may be of some aid in your Finite game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It really wasn't that complacated to add to a CC, as Alneyan states.

However also to add, with some applied specific Racial Abilities on the individual Racial Culture Centers does save the need to get into a few Research Paths early not to mention the need to Build some Specific Facility early. In addition, it does not hurt and having a few Advantages on the Home World and in Home worlds, system does seem realistic. Please refer to reference below for some examples.

Alneyan is also correct http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif maybe we should add the Values to the CC description, I have always struggled with the fact that some information added; might suggest that the author is playing there game and not the Players actually experimenting with their own choices. I really do not know what is best, to much or not enough info , sometimes.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may be pleasantly surprised, what a little diplomacy can do (YOU WAR MONGER http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Actually, what differences does it make in that scenario the AI was bound to enter your system anyway and much sooner then later.
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No decision yet, what are your thoughts when considering the Heroes Epic effects.
I personally would want as much decreased CBEC as possible in my Home Systems.

What would you do for example if you had a Fate Shrine, would you put a priority on it for your Home System?

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Reference
AIC Racial Abilities on its CC

Name := Population Center
Ability 15 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 15 Descr := Populations in Home System will reproduce faster.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 1
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0
Ability 16 Type := Combat Modifier - System
Ability 16 Descr := Defense of Home System is resolute and will receive a combat bonus to all ships and units.
Ability 16 Val 1 := 2
Ability 16 Val 2 := 0
Ability 17 Type := Component Repair
Ability 17 Descr := Orbital ship repair capability.
Ability 17 Val 1 := 1
Ability 17 Val 2 := 0

Name := Psychic Race Cultural Center
Ability 14 Type := Ship Training - System
Ability 14 Descr := Psychic Training Academy.
Ability 14 Val 1 := 2
Ability 14 Val 2 := 3
Ability 15 Type := Fleet Training - System
Ability 15 Descr := Ships and Fleets in this system will improve each turn.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 2
Ability 15 Val 2 := 2
Ability 16 Type := System Point Generation Modifier - Intelligence
Ability 16 Descr := University of Psychic Studies. Psychic intelligence generation from Home System incresed by 5%.
Ability 16 Val 1 := 5
Ability 16 Val 2 := 0

Name := Agrarian Cultural Center
Ability 14 Type := Modify Reproduction - System
Ability 14 Descr :=
Ability 14 Val 1 := 2
Ability 14 Val 2 := 0
Ability 15 Type := Plague Prevention - System
Ability 15 Descr := University of Organic Studies. Prevents level 2 plagues in this system. Agrarian Populations in the Home System will reproduce faster.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 2
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0

Name := Temporal Race Cultural Center
Ability 15 Type := System Point Generation Modifier - Research
Ability 15 Descr := Temporal College. All research in the Home System is increased by 5%.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 5
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0

Name := Crystal Race Cultural Center
Ability 15 Type := Shield Modifier - System
Ability 15 Descr := Transmission Center. The shield strength of all ships in the Home System starts at 30 shield points.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 20
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0

Name := Religious Cultural Center
Ability 15 Type := Planet Conditions Change - System
Ability 15 Descr := Religious Fate Seminary. Improved happiness of the populations and a decreased chance of any bad events in the Home System.
Ability 15 Val 1 := 1
Ability 15 Val 2 := 0
Ability 16 Type := Change Bad Event Chance - System
Ability 16 Descr :=
Ability 16 Val 1 := ?
Ability 16 Val 2 := 0
Ability 17 Type := Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System
Ability 17 Descr := Nature Conservatory. Increases the conditions of all planets in the Home System by 1% each year.
Ability 17 Val 1 := -5
Ability 17 Val 2 := 0
Ability 18 Type := Change Population Happiness - System
Ability 18 Descr :=
Ability 18 Val 1 := 2
Ability 18 Val 2 := 0

[ September 22, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: JLS ]