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-   Scenarios, Maps and Mods (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=146)
-   -   Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43949)

Turin October 20th, 2009 05:21 AM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
I agree that getting an air 6 hero roughly once every ~666 turns with luck 3 is problematic and should be addressed immediately ;).

More seriously the design philosophy was that the heroes should always be at least as good as the recruitables. Getting an air4 eagle king hero when you just randomed a recruitable air 5 would be pretty boring.

WingedDog October 21st, 2009 02:28 AM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
I found an issue that had changed since CBM 1.5 and I didn't find it in the description on the first page.
EA R'lyeh Polypal Mother can no longer call Gibodai, but Gibodai may appear in the province with Polypal Mother. The chance increases with the dominion strength.

Squirrelloid October 21st, 2009 06:56 AM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedDog (Post 715446)
I found an issue that had changed since CBM 1.5 and I didn't find it in the description on the first page.
EA R'lyeh Polypal Mother can no longer call Gibodai, but Gibodai may appear in the province with Polypal Mother. The chance increases with the dominion strength.
QM had mentioned making that change at one point, although apparently not in this thread. I guess he decided EA Rlyeh needed a little nerfing? Not sure why - its not like they win that often.

quantum_mechani October 21st, 2009 11:03 AM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelloid (Post 715459)

QM had mentioned making that change at one point, although apparently not in this thread. I guess he decided EA Rlyeh needed a little nerfing? Not sure why - its not like they win that often.
You've got me- I just can't feel satisfied with a CB version without a little bit of random nerfing.

Apart from that though, there is the fact that as things stood gibodai were quite silly as a recruitable, and I found giant late game swarms of them (but not other aboleth stuff apart from spawn) unthematic.

llamabeast October 21st, 2009 05:37 PM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
Do you mean polypal mother was silly as a recruitable?

Redeyes October 24th, 2009 12:03 AM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarkko (Post 710463)
I think Machaka got the short straw with this version.

With Flaming Arrows being so difficult to cast in CBM the only hope for Machaka has been to burn gems for evocations (or to get Flaming Arrows up), craft items and summon stuff early on in the game, and expand rapidly, because their late game *sucks*. Except now there are too few gems available (this is *good*, it just hurts Machaka mid game a lot, and they already do suck in early game and late game...).

Everybody and their dog can enter the seas now, which is good. Well, except of course Machaka. Their troops are useful only to slow down the opponents before the fire evocations save the day; except of course the fire evocations can't be used under the waves.


Machaka desperately needs some help now.

Maybe a national version of flaming arrows with a lot less demanding requirements would be nice. Don't know if it would be possible have a flaming arrows with limited duration (like say one turn, so that the caster would have to recast it each round) or limited area (like AoE 10 or 20 or something), but it sure would help Machaka a lot.

Or perhaps the Black Sorceror could have Dragon Master as innate ability (to be able to summon fire drakes early on to bolster the lines in the early moments).
If you want to find a solution in line with has been done recently the Bane Spiders/Spider warriors could be made recruitable everywhere. The regular spider warriors are almost identical to man's wardens, except they aren't sacred and therefore have twice the upkeep.

The anywhere Bane Spiders might make the nation "assassination-centric", wouldn't call that entirely a bad thing - new dynamics are interesting and if the new strategy is more viable than the old one it's a "win".

Redeyes October 24th, 2009 01:11 AM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turin (Post 715347)
I agree that getting an air 6 hero roughly once every ~666 turns with luck 3 is problematic and should be addressed immediately ;).

More seriously the design philosophy was that the heroes should always be at least as good as the recruitables. Getting an air4 eagle king hero when you just randomed a recruitable air 5 would be pretty boring.
Well, the chance for getting a A5 High Seraph is 0.625%. Right now you are more likely to get A5 from an Eagle King than if you recruit 3 High Serpahs a turn (under luck 3).

It isn't much of an issue, but I feel it is an oddity, especially as it makes the MA Eagle Kings quite a bit better than the EA (okay, they are heroes, but even a baseline Eagle King is a jackpot, they are first class thugs besides the considerable magic).

llamabeast October 24th, 2009 01:45 PM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
0.625% means about one in 150, no? So if you recruit 3 a turn then you should get A5 once every 50 turns or so. That is much more often than the one every 660 or so turns from the Eagle King hero.

Redeyes October 24th, 2009 05:45 PM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by llamabeast (Post 715901)
0.625% means about one in 150, no? So if you recruit 3 a turn then you should get A5 once every 50 turns or so. That is much more often than the one every 660 or so turns from the Eagle King hero.
From what I recall, MA Caelum has three different heroes. Two of them are multiheroes, the Harab Seraphine and Eagle King, and one is a unique hero - some leader of the temple guard, I don't recall the specifics. My assumption was that you had an equal chance of getting one of the three - a 2% to get an eagle king per turn. As the MA Caelum Eagle kings have A5 unlike the EA ones, that's a 2% to get an A5 hero perturn. If you recruit three High Seraphs you have 1- (1 - 0.00625)^3 = 1.833056640625% per turn to get a A5 (or more than one) High Seraph.

The 1 in 666 turns to get an A6 hero is a separate issue, and not one I have verified the maths for. I am only discussing A5 - and where the chance of a getting a hero with is larger than if you recruit 3 High Seraphs per turn.

The Eagle King by itself is certainly good enough that it doesn't need the A5 to be competitive.

Seve82 October 24th, 2009 09:17 PM
Re: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6
 
I just had to pop in to thank this wonderful stopping of clam/gem whoring in cbm 1.6

There sure has been no problem of having too few gems in our games(I've been playing in small circle of ppl outside lamaserver forumgames) or atleast I have had no gem shortages with no gemgens. There sure has been plenty of tartarians/elemental kings/queens fully kitted on our games. All it takes is just focusing yer usage of gems to "right" places.


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