Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

I agree. Soon MA Eriu will be replaced with MA Ulm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Say, just wondering, but where did the O'Giantslayers go? Still hiding in Ulm proper?

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Utgard rangers report tons of piles of Froot Loops in our woodlands. Methinks the O'Giantlsayers are back in Utgard. We are breaking out the sunglass and white cane inventory.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

War has raged in the Eastern half of the world as well, but none of the heavy hitters are over here.

Bogarus, ma tien chi, ea ulm, ea abysia, la arcos, ma bandar log, LA Man, EA formoria. Mostly been one big pillow fight.
Hard to put anyone away with hoplites and slingers!

Had Niefel or Lanka started out over here, they likely would have owned 10 capitals by now.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Fomoria, EA abysia, and bandar log can all get pretty solid bless/rushes going.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Actually bandar log did dispatch EA Ulm fairly quickly. EA Abysia does have a wicked bless, but has sat in his capital too long i think at this point. Looks like he will die a dominion death in the next 5-10 turns.

Formoria seems to be doing well against Bogarus. But none of these races is Niefel or lanka.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Over in the west, we have Helheim, Lanka, La Agartha, Ma Arco, Ea Mictlan, Ma Ctis and Ea Kailasa in close'ish proximity to one another. All are medium sized powers to large powers, resulting in a stalemate.

If any move against each another, it is likely to end in there own destruction as well. Even if one nation starts a war and wins, it will be so weakened its neighbours will take all the spoils.

Perhaps the only exceptions are Helheim who might have room to manuveur in the SW and perhaps the formidable alliance that La Agartha and Ma Arco have. Those may end up coming out on top in time.

Still, its hard to see any kind of winner coming from this area of the world.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

I must say, I don't understand the turtle/trade mentality DC alluded to. You sign up for a war-game and don't fight any wars for 3 real-life months? Bizarre.

True story: A long time ago, I played dodge ball in an "L"-shaped gym. One guy hid along the inner walls of the L all-game, every-game...never put himself at risk of being hit. Consequently, he won probably 50% of the games. But, Jesus, how boring is that? Playing dodge-ball, and never actually dodging a ball?

Don't get me wrong, I like to win. But I save that must-win-at-all-costs mentality for the stock market and the craps table. This is just a game, why not take some risks and have some fun?

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

I would tend to absolutely disagree, in a large number of cases.

First, your analogy is a bit flawed - this player you allude to sounds like much more of a stealthy raider, than a turtler. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

But it's a simple fact, some nations in the game start out of the gate with more overt strength. Others are not as immediately capable, and must rely on strength in numbers, research, etc to gain a decisive victory. There is a large gamble in turtling in this scenario. With the victory conditions the way they are, someone could theoretically just sit there while an opponent they can't even see wins the game.

There are many styles of nations in this game, and many styles of players - the very fact that you have trouble discerning their motives, means some of them are definitely doing something right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

But Niefelheim DID start on eastern continent!

The order of nations LA Arco has proposed is flawed! For no-one has considered the awesome power of markata provincial defence! Added to that, the highest research among true astral nations! And remember, should you want precioussssss ringsssss of powerzzzzzz, there's only one nation to turn to!

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Tis true Niefel is on the Eastern Continent, but they are not in our neighborhood Atul. Thankfully.

That said, there are not many new players in our neighborhood, EA Ulm being one exception. And the nations with no bless had sc pretenders that may have made a rush difficult.

Llamabeast and LA Ctis are almost dead, and once he is dead, I will have him, time permitting, give us an update on who has how many capitals.

I doubt anyone has more than 4 yet, but who knows? 15 is still a long ways off for the eventual winner. I also foresee a powerful land race going for all 6 of the water race capitals. Then only needing 9 on land.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Jim:
You tend to absolutely disagree with what, exactly?

Sure, different nations have different strengths. Irrelevant.

I'm asking about the human psychology of joining a war-game and staying out of war. Do people really find that fun?

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

The question is : is this kind of MP a wargame ?

It's as much a diplomacy game actually, with some players spending ten times more time sending messages than giving orders, and in some areas situations making the game looking like Europa Universalis 3, with guarantees in addition to alliances and NAPs (things like A threatening B of breaking his NAP with him if he attacks C, because A need the help of C in case D attack him).

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

The game does require diplomacy. In the last Big Game diplomacy failed, and the 2 super races gobbled up great chunks of the map until they were near unstoppable(la Ryleh and LA Ermor). Having these races in the game REQUIRES diplomacy for the lesser races to have a chance to win.

If you are playing in a Big Game and you draw a race like MA Man for instance, and your neighbor is EA Lanka and he attacks you, well the best part of MA Man's game is the early game.

That said, MA Man, all other things being equal, has no shot of beating off Lanka. Lighting only gets you so far.
And longbows just make the lanka sacreds mad.

So really, diplomacy is your best option in that situation.
Find another of lanka's neighbors and say, "When I am gone, which will not be too far into the future if i do not get help, who do you think will be next on the menu?"

But peace is boring.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

What I tend to disagree with, is your assertion that people are just avoiding war either out of aversion to the MP conflict (maybe a few total newbies who are intimidated by the scope of the megagame, I doubt it's many), or because they are just plain scared to fight their neighbors.

It is absolutely relevant that some nations are better in the late game. Just as for example, Lanka and Niefelheim burst out of the gate and went straight to war - they are both doing well because they are exploiting the strength of their nations. If someone has a late game strong nation, particularly one who is not even very good in early game, then they are intelligently playing this strategy game by investing their time and effort into reaching that late game first, rather than slowing down the evolution of their nation by pissing resources into a war that won't go entirely fast - possible enticing another neighbor to attack them in their weakened and overextended state.

My point is that there is very little "psychology of joining a *strategy game* and -staying out of war-" involved in all of this. Maybe 3-4 people who feel lost in this sea of carnage and intrigue, and just don't want to invite someone to kill them off yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

To prove my point, you've been hard at war for some time now Cleveland, how many capitals do you own? It's one thing to come out with both guns blazing because that is the way your nation succeeds. It's another thing to run amok like a bull in a china shop until all of your neighbors band together to put you down like Old Yeller. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif


So then I pose to you this question - How does the human psychology work, to join a large scale strategy game like this, with no overarching strategic intent to win, but rather to just enjoy yourself until you lose? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

You're fine to play how you like Cleveland, I think everyone enjoys what you bring to the table. But implying there is some psychological deficiency in people who are - with rational and clear reason - playing close to the chest, well that's a bit rough. <3

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Wow JM you extract a lot of meaning from a few words.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I think cleveland just suggested staying out of war for 3 months is kind of boring - that's all.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Well he was implying that if you're in this game for this long, that it's because you don't enjoy warfare, or you enjoy the lack of it more at least.

Then he says it's irrelevant that most nations are almost guaranteed to lose if they just jump straight into early war on a map this size (while he says he's happy to lose this specific game because he wants to go down in a blaze of glory).

I think that's fine, I just don't understand the implication that there is some sort of pathos involved on the part of people who are being more cautious in their gameplay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif


And yes, I do have a psychological problem. Every time I start pushing the keys on this board, and they start forming into words, I have the most awful time trying to make them stop..... O.O

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

He's not implying anything. You criticize other people constantly to feel better about yourself. Then you try to spin it like your taking up for the community.

Learn a sport or endeavor to get good at a hobby and maybe you wouldn't have to play this pseudo psychology game periodically to build up your own self esteem.

Cleveland's comment could have very well just meant that he felt conflict makes this game fun.

I am getting down to your level on this and I apologize. Calling you out on this will just put you on the defensive here, but I think it may encourage you to act differently in the future on different forums where no one will know about your e-persona or past posting habits.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Maybe it is just JM's adorable user icon, but his posts always seem to be somewhat tongue in cheek to me. I didn't read it as him insulting Cleveland or vice-versa, just some good natured bantering.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Zhao gets me, that makes me feel good. 8 )


I understand that you don't get me, Foodstamp. I know it has to do with that horrid debate over maliciously abusing egregious bugs in the game code and how ugly that whole thread got. I would personally (and I doubt I am alone in this) appreciate if you would not drag that baggage around. We don't have to like eachother, but I don't understand how you justify bringing those burnt biscuits into this thread, and then blaming me for it?


And I do hope Cleveland understands that I do not have the slightest shred of animosity towards him. I fairly like the guy actually, because of what he is bringing to the table. Maybe I got a bit effuse in my monologue over his musings, but I think, Foodstamp, if you see any sort of implied insult in it, it has nothing to do with Cleveland, or me.


The funny part about forums..... (do you remember Bulletin Boards? how 80s.....) ..... you can disagree with people, you can debate, and discuss, and generally just carry on - and it doesn't have to MEAN more than what you put into or take away from it. I apologize to anyone and everyone who feels that I generally just come on too strong, and have this "e-persona" that is somehow aggressive and overbearing in some way. It's not my intent, generally.


Anyway, I love this game, and most of the people I've met here. I'm sorry you cannot appreciate or empathize with that, Foodstamp. Maybe try to abuse bugs less, and get less defensive when people tell you it's wrong. You know, to help you in the future on different forums where people don't know about your e-persona, and bug exploiting habits. <3



Are we having fun yet?!


I'M FLYING!
~Bob

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Just curious since you have mentioned it on two separate occasions now; what bug have I abused?

P.S. Maybe mine is a bit tongue in cheek as well, but the king isn't as cuddly.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

My estimation of capitol ownership [I could make some mistakes about eastern continent]:



3 capitols:
LA Man [EA Ermor, MA Abysia]
EA Lanka [EA Hinnom, LA Pythium]
EA Niefelheim [MA Pythium, EA Agartha]
LA Marignon [LA Atlantis, MA Ermor]

2 capitols:
EA C'tis [LA Mictlan]
MA C'tis [MA Machaka]
MA Bandar Log [EA Ulm]
LA Utgard [EA ARcoscephale]
EA Helheim [EA TC]
MA Marignon [EA Sauromatia]
MA Atlantis [EA Caelum]
LA Pangaea [EA Yomi and going for MA Ashdod]
LA Caelum [EA Vanheim]
EA Tir na n'Og [MA Vanheim]
MA Arcoscephale [EA Marverni]
EA Mictlan [LA Patala]


1 capitol:
Well, other nations.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Since the only place we locked horns was in the thread about abusing BEs that don't end, I could only assume that was where this animosity comes from. You were openly hostile in that thread, and now in this one as well.

I have almost 1000 posts now. Many of them very verbose, and many of them expressing a conflicting or differing point of view from someone else. Almost no one has expressed any discomfort due to this, you are a glaring exception, Foodstamp. I'd appreciate it if you dropped the issue, and let Cleveland decide if he's unhappy with our exchange. I don't see anyone else complaining, but I'm sure if they did, they'd be more polite about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Fortunately, most people pick up on the profuse use of tonal markers such as http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif and <3 so it's understood that I rarely mean anything as an attack, and often as simply a playful portrayal of the devil's advocate.




And I just gotta say, I've played LA Marignon in one MP game, and I liked their potential..... but am I the only one surprised to see them in what is basically the top 5 in this game so far?

I'm just glad that Dr P saw Bogarus as more of a "late game" threat than little old Gath. One day, he may regret the lovely 12 turn NAP he forced down my throat. Even if that day is 12 turns from now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Oh and for those who missed the others - <3 <3 <3


In this dog eat dog world, I am not afraid to be a cat - MEOW!


Or a bush baby.

<~~~~~

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Of course, and the feeling's mutual.

And with that let's abandon the whole conversation. My apologies for driving things so far off topic.

Very interesting Z. Your list meshes well with what the Sidhe tell me. How have you been able to keep track of all this???

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Actually, I thought it was EA C'tis who had LA Mictlan. And, upon looking, yes it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

I took a different position on the subject of MoD because the spell was used against me in MP, not the other way around.

I was only quick to jump to another forum members defense because I had been the focus of something from you that was definitely not tongue in cheek. I apologize for getting involved and will go back to lurking.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Darkwind:

Are you sure? I would have to check my older scout reports, they have almost the same flags and it could confuse me.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Yeah, I'm right next to EA C'tis. EA C'tis definitely owns LA Mictlan.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Ok, I will fix the list. And I have scout in your capitol anyway [he witnessed the Eriu invasion], TC makes nice temple spam on your border http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Temple spamming when I'm not looking? That's rather rude. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

No offence intended. I'm using my temples as schools and I want to raise the literacy rate among my peasants.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Well, Utgard laid down some pain on MA Ermor and was a hair's breadth (aka scripting error) from taking their capital when other matters required our immediate attention. So you might consider that capital a dual effort though Utgard obviously has nothing to show for it other than a few more battle scars.

And the Admiral is not one to be trifled with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/6937/canedn7.th.jpg


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

LA Arcos can add with certainty that they only own one capital(: But at least they own that! only 14 to go. So in 36
turns one might say that LA Arcos is no closer to victory then they were when the races were assigned(:

Though I give all the credit in the world to ea Abysia. They took a strong pretender, a strong bless, and have been well played. Their pd is insanely tough, and they have been a formidable 1st opponent.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

This has been a very fun game to this point. It feels like we are about to really get into the "mid" game as far as politics and research goes.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Cleveland: Had to stifle a laugh at work. Nicely done!

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Aw, we nearly had you with the old get-your-opponent-fired-in-real-life-to-plunge-him-into-financial-hardship-so-that-he-can't-afford-internet-access-and-has-to-forfeit-the-game trick.

It's one of the elves' favorites. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Did Coobe ever find a sub for Midguard? I saw his post where he is looking for a permanent sub, and unless they send in a turn soon, they will stale.

If Midguard does stale, I will try to find a permanent sub for them, as I think Coobe said he was going into the hospital (: I did not get any requests to change email addresses for that race.

So if they stale, and with the best intentions, I will try and find Midguard a sub. Coobe if you can read this, contact me if you already have a preferred sub.

I think Midguard has 2 capitals and a decent position btw.
If someone has been previously eliminated, or their race is down to 1 or 2 provinces, you could take over Midguard. Of course you would need to set your present race(which must be on death's door) to ai 1st. You cannot play 2 races at once.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Xietor:

Well, if you will have to do that I did see anticipatient volunteering to sub for Midgard.

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

ah good, and he sent me his email address as well. too bad I did not get it until after the turn hosted(:

Midguard has new leadership!

Jotunheim, Machaka, please set yourselves to ai, or are they actually dead and the computer just has not shown it yet?

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

Niefelheim is coming for you, Xietor! He is already annihilating your closest neighbour...

LA C\'tis falls
 

Alas, LA C'tis is defeated. In the final sally, some 400 C'tissian undead and soldiers burst forth, supported by more than 20 sauromancers. Unfortunately the sauromancers were incompetent and didn't cast much Bane Fire (which had only just been researched), and the Bane Fire itself proved to be markedly less effective than expected. Nevertheless the vast C'tissian army reduced the Kailasan sacreds to just the last few soldiers before finally breaking - so close...

Much respect to the Kailasans. They chewed through my chaff like a hot knife through butter.

And so, the tragic tale of LA C'tis comes to a close; a tale defined by a number of catastrophic errors, including the early loss of an SC god, and somehow losing the war with Midgard from a point at which victory seemed certain.

Re: LA C\'tis falls
 

Niefelheim?

Zeldor, do you honestly think Ruin, Immortal, Undead, King of Suicides fears the living? What fantasy realm do you hail from?

Though Ruin fears nothing, he has a healthy respect for fire,
and the fires of EA Abysia are near extinguished.

LA Arcos. needs to purchase a crumble.

Re: LA C\'tis falls
 

If you saved some fire gems from there I could buy some http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: ELF - Eriu Liberation Front
 

If Niefelheim gets into Xietors area won't he have a good chance of winning given that earlier someone said:-

Also, just how many scouts has Zeldor got?

Answers, on a young female virgin to Ea Mictlan...please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Sticks and stones
 

While it is not normally prudent to provide scouting reports to enemies, I was kidding about pillow fights in our neck of the woods. We are not fighting with sticks and stones.

This springtime blizzard is occurring on the capital of EA Abysia where there is normally heat 3:

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...a84326bd2g.jpg

Re: Sticks and stones
 

With Abysia taken care of, no-one stands between me and, you guessed it, WORLD DOMINATION! BWAH HA HA HA HA!

P.S. DPWM!

Re: Sticks and stones
 

Are you related to Pinky and the Brain?

Re: Sticks and stones
 

MA Mictlan would like to congratulate Ea Tir Na Nog on managing to get their SC E9N6 earthmother pretender not just killed (along with almost her entire entourage), but horror marked, feeble minded, diseased, and crippled in their assault on our northern swamp. We aren't going to buckle that easily, and we are about to start remote casting the crap out of your forts. We soaked up Vanheim's armies until they collapsed from other pressures- you can be next, and likely will be.

Re: Sticks and stones
 

MA Jotunheim was set to Ai.
MA Machaka will be set to ai as soon as I can find someone to set them to ai.

Updated Drudge Report
 

On turn 38, for those interested, here is a list of the dead and fallen(ai)

A. Early Age

Tien Chi
Caelum
Agartha
Vanheim
Hinnom
Arcos
Ulm
Ermor
Marverni
Sauromatia
yomi

B. Middle Age

Abysia
Oceania
Ryleh
Vanheim
Ermor
Pythium
Jotunheim
Machaka

C Late Age

Mictlan
Pythium
Atlantis
Patala
Ctis

Update adds Ma Jotunheim, Machaka, and LA Ctis to the list of the fallen. Niefelheim has bolted thundered blasted its way into 2nd place. La Marignon and MA Eriu both took nosedives.

Though with war, fortunes come and go. Who knows what the morrow will bring? Only the Sibyls know for sure. And they are not fortelling-not for free anyway.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif