Re: MBT's
 

The following are to be an update and FYI future.
issue.

1) T-14 further confirmation that the T-14 won't be operational until earliest 2018+ and second ref. acts as an updated tech/data for the T-14 which makes this the second or third update thus far. Still showing as a prototype tank.
"What makes the 2018-2027 armaments program so special is the conversion of experimental products still in the testing phase into serial ones. This applies to Armata, the T-14 main battle tank, the frontline aviation system (T-50/PAK-FA - Mine), the new generation long-range aircraft and many other items, he said. (Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin - Mine)"
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove...tle_tanks.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html

2) T-90S Looks like Russia is finally going to sell this tank to Iraq in the near future. Good thing we didn't sell them our top tier ABRAMS now that the Russians are "nosing" around. The contract is now in the implementation phase.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove..._supplies.html

3) Well we'll likely not see this game wise even if it does get done as currently planned, but India has apparently woken up to the fact they can't do the multi-purpose Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV) on their own. That's progress for them. Theirs LONG been distrust from the Army concerning DARDO their developmental group that produced the ARJUN MkI and soon the MkII tanks. Notice who one of the four they're interested in is. ;) as recently discussed in my last above.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/nove..._t-72_mbt.html

4) BTR-60PB - Concerning the ref. below, the information concerning the use of the T-54A is incorrect. There is no record of them (Cuba) receiving the T-54 in any variant. They did receive the following from the SIPRI database from the Soviet Union (Yes they make that distinction from Russia.)
(25) T-55 Tank O-1981 D-1981 (25) Second-hand; incl some T-54T ARV That was the last T-55 shipment to Cuba.

Also while I'm on it this is the other BTR-60 variant Cuba received...
(10) BTR-60P APC O-(1984) D-1985-1986 (10) BTR-60PU-12 CP version; for use with 9K35 (SA-9) SAM systems

Other tanks ordered were the IS-2/SU-100/T-34/85/PT-76 and as also already mentioned the T-62 as ordered in 1984 and delivered btwn 1984-1988 (Last and final shipment to Cuba from the Soviet Union. With NONE from Russia.)
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/cuban_fsv.htm
http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade...e_register.php
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/594807/30195841


Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Re: MBT's
 

Interesting photo of recycled old fuel barrel on polish T-72

http://d.wiadomosci24.pl/g2/3a/8e/d8...56_8f3a_p.jpeg

Also polish modification of Su-76 from late 50 for ammo/support vehicles with DshK used in SU-76 batteries.

http://imgur.com/9UaQedE.jpg
http://imgur.com/WsfOY90.jpg

Bulgarian modification of PZIV with Su-76 gun from cold war
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kUOMg-jLQr...0/Pz4-Zis3.jpg
http://en.valka.cz/files/pz_iv__-_su76_785.jpg
http://en.valka.cz/attachments/9328/11683680cf6.jpg

http://airgroup2000.com/gallery/albu...2/DSC_0221.jpg

Polish prototype of T-54ATGM build with better protection against ATGM. On turret added wire protection and screens on sides and front.
http://i.imgur.com/hTzmPFW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/b1bUa3I.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Jc0ZiNE.png

Re: MBT's
 

I wouldn't think it much matters(?) game wise in terms of how many of the Cromwell tanks could've been reused after the "Battle of Happy Valley" since it appears the ones they got had successfully been attacked by the use of pole charges by the Chinese.
At best I wouldn't think more than a handful (Though one below suggests 12 were reused.), but what an interesting piece of history that as these articles suggest has been forgotten about on the other side "of the pond" as well. In order of mentioning the CROMWELL tanks specifically...
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/s...-28506063.html
From the next...
"Some saw service in the Korean War with the 7th RTR and the 8th King’s Royal Irish Hussars." Also the mod section shows a CROMWELL of 1950 in the 7th RTR paint scheme.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...I_Cromwell.php
https://tankandafvnews.com/2015/04/0...he-korean-war/
Taken from the above...
http://hosungw.blogspot.com/2015/03/...-by-north.html


More of the battle and remembrance...
https://www.royal-irish.com/stories/...r-rifles-korea
https://www.royal-irish.com/events/r...gunghyon-korea
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...lley-1.1372892
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ul...ttle-1-5084140
http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Socie...ticleId=107569

If I may...
It seems that what I had onboard was "disrupted" enough to have been rendered dead by my security protocols, well pretty much anyway and it wasn't going anywhere. But not wanting to show up on the search for this culprit on this site, as happened to one of our long time contributors, I for my piece of mind and if needed here should my IP Address had of come up as well, spent $150.00 (So Merry Christmas to my PC!) to be sure, my protocols were good resulting in no malicious malware or viruses. Just some registry issues that needed some attention that were starting to cause some very minor performance issues (Need to get a better Registry Cleaner I suppose.) Got other things done for the price as well hardware wise etc. Bottom-line well worth the price of being a good citizen on this forum.

So to everyone that reported this issue my thanks as it made me more aware of mine! :clap:

Andy and Don what more needs to be said, but, thanks again for keeping use in the loop and making my PC happy with it's Christmas present though, early!?! :clap:

Mr. Brooks I haven't forgotten your wonderful staff and your personal involvement a handful of years back in taking care of me that allowed me to "Get BACK IN THE GAME ;)" That being said it's hard enough in this business (Or any now.) competitive as it is, to deal with something like this out of nowhere, so again I have the pleasure to thank your staff and you for doing all that could've been done to make things right again in our world. :clap:

It's a good day when I can use some "Smilies"!! :D

Regards,
Pat

Re: MBT's
 

Something new from one of my oldest refs. and New Year Last Year in Review or if you will, NYLYR HMmmm, what you call a liar from NY!?! Anyway here's Part 1...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/janu...17_part_1.html

The next is a "crossover" item though the new BTR-4 variant looks really good, it's what's said about the T-72AMT's ATGW the LUCH that caught my eye as a farther conformation of it's performance as I posted several months back on Ukraine's latest ATGW's. Also I'll post the Data Sheets for both of these pieces of equipment, generally speaking, when they run an article like this those sheets are likely to have been updated.
Located at bottom of ref. 1..."...developed by State Kyiv Design Bureau ‘Luch’. This missile uses a semi-automatic guidance from laser beam and [b]can penetrate 750 mm of armour at a range of 5 km."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/janu...72amt_mbt.html

The BTR-4MV1 and T-72AMT Data Sheets...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/arms...rity_2017.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/arms...rity_2017.html


Not what I was expecting but a small plus anyway.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

A LOT of conflicting info regarding the T-72AMT...

http://www.janes.com/article/73097/u...nveils-t-72amt

claims 550 mm pen for the Kombat ATGM..

The T-72AMT has been adapted to fire the 125 mm Kombat (Combat) gun-fired laser-guided missile, which is capable of penetrating 550 mm of armour

..other sources say 750

the gunner has now also a night vision sight used to fire anti-tank guided missile able to penetrate 750 mm armor at the distance of 5 km.

https://www.army-technology.com/proj...n-battle-tank/

gives a top speed of only 60 kph

he T-72AMT tank is powered by a diesel engine developing a maximum power output of 840hp. The power-pack enables the vehicle to attain a maximum speed of 60km/h on road.

Re: MBT's
 

I think it'll boil down to which missile we chose to give that tank or just use two slots for the AMT armed with KOMBAT & LUCH weapons. The night vision upgrade is also addressed in an "army recognition" video posted below.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...075B&FORM=VIRE

And to make things interesting we're going to supply them with JAVALINS and that made the national news in both print and media here.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

First photos of Thailand's new VT-4 MBTs:

Re: MBT's
 

I read the text in the first link (don't know if it has been updated since you wrote your post)
that it is 550 mm after ERA and 750mm mentioned elsewhere is penetration without ERA. Sometimes I see numbers like that listed for USSR ammunition such as for PG-7VR:

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/rpg_7.htm
"PG-7VR is a 64/105-mm tandeam HEAT rocket. It has effective range of 100 m against tanks and 200 m against stationary targets. It penetrates up to 600 mm of armor behind ERA and 750 mm without ERA;"

Re: MBT's
 

Ukraine is no longer using Russian ATGM tank launched weapons, they've already developed at least four different such weapons and are using their Russian versions for testing and research purposes. Will have to find what thread I posted all their current tank launched missiles in later. Not sure if it's in this thread or a somewhat more recent other thread, but, it so posted. And somewhat hurriedly answered in my last post. My time is up!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

From two posts ago, my apologies, LUCH is the design company. Alright I'll do it to me, for you - :doh:!

How to do this? First you must read the provided info, what it is, the purpose of, different calibers available of the type, most provide charts and platforms used on.

I'm splitting up the main ref, which will be at the bottom of this. The sources are the Ukraine's sales and defense industry sites as both are together on the site. The following are taken from that site and treated individually.

1. The 30mm ZTM-1 automatic cannon and the ZTM-2 have become the main weapon of choice for the Ukraine intended for APC/ACV/AIFV/IFV (Specific application equipage shown. This applies to all the rest as well as posted.) and attack helos as noted. Ukraine has mounted these with the associated turrets and others as indicated within this article. Currently in service.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...-ztm-1-i-ztm-2

2. The man-portable anti-tank guided missile system SKIF this is their "Heavy Hitter" at 130mm and 152mm calibers. This is a general all around system from anti-personnel to bunker busting. Pretty impressive from some videos I've seen. Coming into or recently has entered service.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...-kompleks-skif

3. The anti-tank missile system BARYE designed to be used with the SHKVAL turret (Like #1 above.) on the platforms as noted. Currently in service.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...kompleks-barer

4. “CORSAR” light portable missile system close in support system in service with Max. Rng. of 2500m.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...mpleks--korsar

5. “Bar’er-V” helicopter antitank missile system as currently used on their attack helos. This is an upgrade issue for the Ukraine OOB on their helos. This is a long range, heavy 130mm ATGM with a very high hit probability. In service.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...mpleks-barer-v

6. The anti-tank precision-guided missile R-111 STUGNA designed for 100mm/115mm platform weapons as noted in the article. In service.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...-100-mm-stugna

7. The anti-tank guided missile systems KOMBAT and KONUS these are the "main events" with the difference being simply that KOMBAT is fully operational in the platforms as listed in para. This is where the Russian REFLEX & BASTION are also addressed in comparison and otherwise. A very effective system that is getting a lot of attention. This missile will be if I remember correctly, be part of the Pakistani deal with the Ukraine to update the 300+ T-80UD tanks Pakistan bought from the Ukraine.
KONUS is also available to meet 120mm NATO standard tank guns. Though it also supports the Ukraine's T-84-120 YATAGAN which is in service as a Test Bed platform. It should be noted, at the time it was considered one of the more advanced MBT's in the world. Both in service.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruz...kombat-i-konus
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84_yatagan.htm
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2807.html

It's getting late the next three weapons cover the 100mm/105mm and 115mm ATGM systems. REFLEX should've been phased out of front line service by this past year. Here's the main ref.
https://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/vooruzhenie-i-boepripasi

Alright already touched on this and it'll touch I believe on the topic that the U.S. has lifted the restriction on the Ukraine to buy from defense contractors (U.S.)...
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-se...kraine-2017-12
https://warisboring.com/american-ant...ng-to-ukraine/
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=51235203
http://fortune.com/2017/12/23/trump-...siles-ukraine/


A couple of the refs. above do make the distinction of the "old" versus the "newer" systems. Of the above systems outlined, I believe the "SKIF" to be the oldest (DEC 2008.) though it's been updated. Remember nobody in the West wants to see the Ukraine back under Russian control. They've been receiving a lot of management, engineering and technical assistance before and more so since the Russian incursion.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/05/2...rmy/#arvlbdata
http://www.usubc.org/site/aerospace-...ade-in-ukraine
https://www.stripes.com/news/europe/...apons-1.354534

Isn't wonderful how conflict spurs innovation? :rolleyes:

I've got a busy day later this morning before work, so, Good Night!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I'll go through all this BUT.......

So ZTM-1 = 30mm 2A72 and ZTM-2 = 2A42 so what I am going to do is rename the existing weapons NOT create 2+ dozen duplicates using the same two weapons under a different name

Re: MBT's
 

Though still a PITA by degrees, I didn't expect it to be more than what you're doing concerning the ZTM. My concern was to straighten out the what I was seeing as the convoluted mess the whole ATGM/ATGW Ukrainian issue seemed to "nose diving" into. I hope that mission was accomplished to a satisfactory level. Thanks!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
Figured I'd put this here some pictures for you to consider for the Turkish M-60T. I got a little nostalgic and looked back into my first official Patch submission in "The FASTBOAT Patch page" on Pg.1 Post 3 Item A4 and below to M2 and the others below that.. I looked at the bottom of M2 and saw all those posts listed there and it took me a minute to realize they're posts from the this thread on the M-60T but, how confusing it must've been to see that and scratch your head and ask "OK for what Thread does he want me to look at!?!".

What a great upgrade project that was that IMI put together for that tank (They RESET 170 M-60A1 tanks to beyond the M-60A3 TTS. It had a 120mm L44 SB MG installed, NEW advanced FCS/KNIGHT III optics as carried on MERKAVA 4 and "the kicker" was it also was equipped with the same ceramic applique armor as the MERKAVA 4 as well, along with that, it also had Israeli ERA bolt on kits, which is some of the best in the world. These by definition (RESET) were brand new tanks.

But this is where my Turkish nightmare would begin. In fact I'll have to fix it again.

I hope I've improved since then, I liked the way my last flowed especially since that one which is like watching a tennis match, ADD, CHANGE, MODIFY (And isn't that the same as changing it? Well I didn't make that connection until later.) and DELETE. It would start again maybe in a different random order. :doh: No wonder Don would lose some hair back then!?!

Well anyway it could use a couple of new pictures as I believe we have two M-60T tanks in the game. So I'll leave you with 4 or 5 to chose from and these are Turkish and NOT Israeli M-60 SABRE series of tanks. That was the other confusing thing I remember concerning the M-60T people kept wanting to add that "SABRE" when the M-60T was truly a stand alone version built admittedly from some of the better aspects of the Israeli M-60 SABRE and made better as noted above concerning the MERKAVA aspects of it.

It's late here are those pictures and folks don't let me slip back "to the old days"...;)
Attachment 15172 Attachment 15173
Attachment 15174 Attachment 15175

A little something for when I'm ready to tackle the TURKISH MBT RABBIT HOLE!! One big PITA!! And I ain't talking about the kind you eat! And they still use LEOPARD 1 tanks!!
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/Turkish-Tanks.php
https://tankandafvnews.com/2016/04/2...ornet-missile/
http://defense-update.com/20171026_m60_upgrades.html

Note Para 4 of the last ref. I found the comparison of ops between Turkey's LEOPARD 2A4 and M-60T most interesting.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Ah !..... so the ERA blocks go onto the turret top, turret front and hull front......nothing on the sides. That make a slight difference to the unit. That " 4 o'clock " graphic was most informative. The other photos I have seen and have others taken during the same events in the game now. The branch in the rabbit hole is this.......would that ERA be second generation advance ERA?

Re: MBT's
 

I am sure the ERA was of a very advanced type for that time period of late 2005 until completion of deliveries in 20`0.

Please don't forget it had the MERKAVA 4 hybrid ceramic applique tiles over steel applied as well. That's what I'm not sure was addressed when I submitted the tank for modification in my first patch submission back in 2011. If I'm wrong please disregard, it's been a longtime since I've looked in on or played the Turkish OOB. I believe that's what's used on those side skirts with a possible ERA layer over them, BUT it's definitely not just steel.

Israel was willing to do this because Turkey was looking to have 300 - 350 of their M-60A1 tanks brought up to the M-60T standard. IMI had already prepped the packages and are still warehoused to be used by another buyer or if Turkey still wants them of which there has been some "chatter" due to current operations that they might and amid many reports (included in my last post here as indicated.) that the combat effectiveness has been better than their LEOPARD A24 tanks which is surprising.

I'm glad it'll get some new pics, found a video on the M-60T concerning that hybrid armor however, it's in German I think. The one we had I agree at the time didn't clearly bring in the detailed look we normally like to have and it's just sitting there. Things that move should look like they are in their "working environment" and be nationalized where possible and is why I culled those pictures in my last submission last month.

If I can get that final question we have hanging on the other tank discussed, I'll add it as an edit here.

UPDATE: Turkish M-60T did get the SABRE III upgrade as reported by Israel to the UN and as SIPRI has recorded it.
"Israel
R: Turkey 468 Navigator APC 2009 2010-2015
(468) BMC-350-16 Kirpi version
170 Sabra-3 Tank (2002) 2005-2010 (170) $688 m deal; Turkish M-60A1 tanks rebuilt to Sabra-3; Turkish designation M-60T"

So who do you believe? I believe this, Israel reported this to the UN per the current arms transfer treaties in effect. Remember the upgrade was done in Israel therefore by treaty they have to report the export of arms to another country and there are other verification systems in place as well. I know this goes against the grain of most refs (SABRE II) including from the site below, but, I've seen some to support the SABRE III upgrade as well. And what motive would Israel have to reporting something different when it can be easily rebutted by the arms experts that monitor these things?

Just let me say it for you ~!@#$%* PITA oh what a PITA. My sediments exactly when dealing with my favorite tank countries as noted. :D:p:rolleyes:

Also I see clues in the following ref for the M-60T this from 2017 as a NEW Italian upgrade pkg. for the M-60 which might need to be watched for as well. Israel hasn't released anything like this concerning the M-60T upgrade that I've been able to find. But again it might provided some insight even just about looks the same.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/mo...rade-solution/

I wish we can upload word documents here without copying from them.

I haven't found anything thus far to support the T-60A3/A3 TTS ERA
(Israel did have the M-60A3 BLAZE which had an ERA pkg.), however this might've "muddled" the issue and will require follow-up
(Did I mention along with India, that Turkey is my next favorite tank country to deal with? :rolleyes:) I might've posted this already not sure. It's as you'll see operationally motivated.
https://www.defensenews.com/land/201...grade-contest/

I need a little quite time before work I have a nice peaceful post today such as a "Friday" should be at times.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

The bottom line here is I have not found ANY photos of Turkish M60's with ERA blocks except the M60T so the units in the game now that have it that are not M60T's are changed to TTS's without ERA which I do know for certain they did get.

Don

Re: MBT's
 

I agree that's the right course concerning the M-60A3/A3TTS. I couldn't find any pictures either from before I posted my last and up to a few minutes ago.

Also I have translated the following from the lower right corner where the date is located for each tank...HIZMETE GIRIS TARIHI

GOOGLE = DATE OF SERVICE INPUT
FreeTranslations.org = HIZMETE AUTHORIZATION FOR ENTRANCE
MS = Date of entry to the service
stars21.com/translator/turkish_to_english.html = service entry date

Turkish government source with Turkish assigned dates when those tanks entered service. This will be a key component to fixing the Turkish OOB amongst a handful of other refs. I can't wait!?! :rolleyes:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:
Attachment 15176

Re: MBT's
 

I'll go through that again and make any adjustments required. I see right off that the Leo 1 dates are way out of line and it does not appear they ever received any 1A1 or 1A2's.....only A3's so that's a big change for formations as well the modernization program ended in 2009 so unit 37 never happened....that was added before the 2008 economic crash and never removed ( but we don't get info like that easily......)

Re: MBT's
 

........well THAT was "fun"....:re:

Some units/ formations were close.....some not so much ...some were in too soon, some not soon enough sometimes by nearly a decade but from the info you passed on as well as some I found it's ( NEARLY...)all straight now in the OOB's.....now I have to cross check the picklists to see what the damage is and fix that ( more "fun" ). I was also able to re-organize some of the unit classes a bit.

ONE nice bit of info I did find was the Leo 1 upgrades that were done seems to have produced a tank not unlike the Canadian C2.... and it now has a name....Leo 1T Volkan.

CORRECTION.... the name is good but the similarity to the C2 is in question now......this is SUCH FUN........:doh:

Re: MBT's
 

Good.

I didn't decide to translate that graphic until sometime after I submitted that first patch. The references I had at the time were "all over the map" but not as bad as I found the Turkish OOB which I'm sure of "was inherited" when Andy and you took over. If I would've known about SIPRI and that Graphic (And translated it.) except for the ALTAY and LEOPARD 2T we more than likely wouldn't have had to go through this exercise.

I have to be honest, and say that the SIPRI Data when used with that Graphic as I posted here somewhere already, were right on. Yes SIPRI doesn't tell when they entered service but, by them giving you the #'s, dates ordered and delivered, what was delivered, how was it modified/or not and country designation of it in this case the M-60T Modified to the SABRE III, and me allowing for the opeval/training time needed I would've felt confident of FOC+. The Graphic would've just sealed the deal. It was this realization a little over a year ago that first put the spark back in me to think about doing this work again. That it didn't have to take so many refs to finally fix that OOB and make it right. With the other RL issues that were going on at the time and the Turkish and SANDF Armor issues weighing on me, well instead of it being my AUSTERLITZ they made it my WATERLOO. So much time wasted to some degree but not a total wash because you have to start somewhere.

Problem was in the timing of that submission, the format as I posted earlier this week (Even I after all these years looking at it again thought "I know it was my first time but, God it was like trying to follow the bouncing ball ALL OVER THE PLACE!?!). And again not having those resources at the time.
A simple translated graphic, who would've known! :doh:

That issue was hopefully fixed in the last submission the format was straight forward and I think everyone could figure out where I was going. You can have all the right references in the world but if it can't be presented correctly, you bought more work for yourself.

Don if anymore loose ends come up, just turn on the "BAT LIGHT"!! You know where the "switch" is at.

Amazing what a good nights rest will do, and I needed it. Those "Reindeer Games" what a joy!?!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: I almost forgot, can you guess whose APC graphic I came across this week while looking into the M-60 tanks???? :rolleyes:

And HELL NO I'M NOT POSTING IT ETHIER!! IT CAN WAIT!! :p ;) :doh: :D

Re: MBT's
 

The "Bat Light" came on. The Turkish APC modernization program graphic. The dates in the upper left denotes the timeframe involved when those APC's were updated and put into service. Again as in the MBT Graphic, this is from their "DOD" equivalent component.
Attachment 15177

Someone's across the street. I call it "under cover posting"! :shock: :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

This is probably more back up as anything as this point...

1. Turkey:
1. You had an issue with the LEOPARD-1T thinking it close to the CANDF C2 I think you were going to back off that. Recheck my hardcopy files of my Patch Submissions and the net to verify those notes were still viable. It seems they are so, the only upgrade it received was for the 3rd GEN ASELAN VOLKAN FCS.

The LEOPARD-1T was the operational test bed for the system which is meant for the ALTAY. You can think of the system as...
Level 1 - Test Bed units.
Level 2 - The 170 LEOPARD-1T upgrade completed NOV 2009.
Level 3 - ALTAY w/TI/GSR 50(?) which I'm also finding that the LEOPARD 2A4 tanks have it as well.

If you think about and remember these were bought solely for the LEOPARD-2T (Similar to the German LEO-NG.) project. This makes perfectly good sense to me, as it's a major upgrade the LEOPARD-2T will have and still feel have in limited numbers like the one German Battalion of the LEOPARD-2A7 that's fully operational. This is actually new info to me based on tonight's work concerning the LEOPARD-2A4.

VOLKAN FCS is a fully stabilized dual axis modern all-weather FCS. It can fire on the move with a high first hit probability, I should think a very easy 40 TI/GSR, LRF w/Battlefield Management System (BSM) integration, which in game terms I'll assume would be limited to the radio.

With the above LEOPARD-1T/LEOPARD-1A3T1/ALL M-60A1/A3/T/M-48A5TI/M-48A5T2 will be operational through 2025. This is due to the delays caused by the ALTAY which at this point is 3-4 years behind schedule and counting. The only one I'm not sure of is the M-48T5 that entered service in 1982 on whether it's still active.

Again only backup.

Now for some news and it ain't good...

Well Russia is at it again and I've said before, the ARMATA is going to late now maybe even later. You don't spend money on recapitalization of "older" equipment if your latest and greatest is say within 2 - 3 years or less of FOC+. BUT Russia HAS...

2. Russia The T-90M which is a slightly improved version of the Export T-90MS. The T-90M should be in the field by this Summer, my feeling is closer to OCT 2018 if no issues arise at the last minute. Here's what I have...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...sian_army.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ata_sheet.html

3. Iraq: I don't know if this is an add or not-Strike That! Now an ADD, they just received their first T-90S tanks on 1 FEB. If we use the USA model for tank school I had posted about a year back, figure somewhere around 8 months until FOC+, so around OCT 2018. Should cover enough tanks to field a unit/op eval and training. Was thinking JAN 2019 however, they do have an extensive history in the use of Russian tanks. Let's call the "benefit of the doubt" which will more then likely bite me in the tail. :angel
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...s_to_iraq.html

Ukraine: The other masters of upgrading existing tanks is also at it again. JANE's reporting they have now the T-72MP this should be a very competitive tank against the latest Russian counterpart versions. Apparently this tank has taken many of the elements they were going to put into the T-72/120 NATO version. Points not to miss in the article...

1. Who helped them with it.

2. Added 4 tons to the weight of the tank mostly in armor protection. That's about the weight I believe was added to make the Russian
T-72B3/B4.

3. JANE's estimate of the frontal turret armor equivalent.

I would expect this tank to at FOC+ by years end, however, we need more information on this tank before we take any action I feel.
http://www.janes.com/article/76473/k...w-t-72-upgrade

I wish the Russian would SLOW DOWN, I had already posted a couple of times about this situation arising. Those slots we got rid of (T-80 mods(?) I think it was) last year are going to fill right up.

Had a very busy but productive day, I think I'll see if I can find that "Hunting Hitler" episode I forgot to ask CINCLANTHOME to record for me.

Good Whatever wherever you are!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

This is giving me a headache........

The only thing I can find on the M-48T5 is that it's an ARV .......


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-m7GxAd6f2...%25C4%25B1.jpg

and another one that looks like a M88...which is more likely what it actually is

and that the most "advanced" M48 in Turkish Service is the M48A5T2. The "M-48T5" that's in the game now I "inherited" when I took over sole OOB maintenance duties so as far as I can tell that shouldn't even be there

SLOWLY this is being adjusted into what I hope is it's final ..and correct....configuation

Re: MBT's
 

That T-72MP is......

just let me know if anyone actually buys the thing.....

Re: MBT's
 

Pat..... a job for you or anyone else....Is the Greek M48A5 MOLF still in service...... if I find the info on my own I'll post a "nevermind"

Re: MBT's
 

Many things Turkish

http://theafteractionreview.boards.n...t-units?page=4

and yes a M48T5 Tamay ARV is an M88
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5466/2...c4acb759_b.jpg

Re: MBT's
 

Yes it is. It is still in service in the islands' garrisons as a QRF.

Btw, regarding Turkish armor, before the Syrian intervention the composition of armor used to be in general like this:

1st Army mechanized infantry formations=Leo-1 variants
1st Army armored formations=Leo-2 variants
Rest of Land forces armored formations=M60T and some M60A3
Rest=M60A3, M48 variants

With some exceptions of course.

Now things have been more muddled, since Leo-2s have been deployed in Syria as well, but the general trend is like this more or less.

Re: MBT's
 

Always nice to find a good photo for "inspiration":D

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1517927088

Re: MBT's
 

Thanks....... I was just about to post a 'nevermind' when I logged on and found your message :)

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
1. To clarify the para 4 concerning the VOLKAN FCS where I had the TI/GSR 40 is for the LEOPARD-1T if I confused you there. Meant to "flip it" with the para 2 on that systems 3 different levels above it in Post #773 and forgot. Sorry if caused any confusion.

2. Thanks for the M-48T5 resolution, just ran out of time there, but I see it got you to Greece and not as a tourist. It was well answered though. Another "Rabbit Hole" just a little smaller than most. ;)

3. Russia the T-90M is not for export, it's going into the Russian Army only. I now seem to remember something about this tank, maybe it was posted in the development stage. Will check FIREFOX files I transferred over. My army recognition ref 1 has a good photo as well.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...sian_army.html

I have verified that the T-90M was used in ZAPAD 2017 last SEP per the ref above. It was the largest Russian Exercise since the Cold War which made international News and gave concern to NATO. I found a picture of in the exercise in my search.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/r...elarus-n788741
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.37fcf9f63a90
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/...training-20540
Attachment 15179
Attachment 15180 Attachment 15181

I'm sticking with my OCT 2018 date for now as posted in my last.
No better way to opeval a tank than to put it into a major exercise, especially of that scope.

Alright back to work today.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: THIS IS WHY I SHOULD EAT SOMETHING BEFORE I POST. SORRY DON WRONG TANK WRONG COUNTRY IN MY REPLY ABOVE. :doh: OK THE T-72MP IS FOR THE UKRAINIAN ARMY, HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING TO SUGGUST THEY'LL TRY TO EXPORT IT-YET. WILL KEEP MY EYE ON IT.

Well at least we have another picture of the Russian T-90M!?! :up:

Re: MBT's
 

FYI: Another ZAPAD 2017 Heavy armored Russian unit apparently was also evaluated there. The ref is saying, a Russian military source is indicating that the BMPT TERMINATOR-2 will be received by the Russian Army That would put it inducted into the Army by APR 2018.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...y_in_2018.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...fications.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Well the following very good pieces are dealing with some of the issues Europe is having concerning MBT modernization or development. These pieces exam the choices that Norway and Poland face in this issue. The "Driver" is of course Russia who has moved West already and is steadily moving further North as well into the Artic Zone.
http://www.defence24.com/armoured-fo...rade-programme
http://www.defence24.com/mbt-for-pol...olish-industry

I've already reported on the French and German cooperation in the LEOPARD 3/or yes, LEOCLERC.

South Korea has straightened out their K-2 issues and have recently started the production of the 2nd batch of 100 tanks. They will have 300 total upon completion of, for now, the 3rd and final batch of 100 K2 tanks.

Russia of course will have the ARMATA but not in the numbers originally proposed but, in enough numbers that Europe is certainly concerned about them. And this is I get to officially say, "I told you so." It'll be 2021 or later before Russia fields the tank. From the ref. below...

"The Russian Defense Ministry plans to sign major contracts to procure Armata-based armor after 2020. "Acceptance tests will begin this year and will continue up to the end of 2019. We have to reach the finish with new samples in 2020 and will then decide on major serial contracts," Borisov said."

And if that wasn't enough...

"The Main command of the Russian Ground Forces has announced in May 2017, that the 1st tank regiment of Taman division will be the first unit to be rearmed with new-generation Armata T-14. That will happen after 2020 when the new tank passes government acceptance tests and becomes operational. At present the regiment is armed with T-72B3."

Don and I will leave it as a surprise unless he feels it necessary to do otherwise, but our tank issue of a couple of weeks ago continued behind the scenes, it would involve several countries, I think it was three continents, several tanks having started with what we thought were small issues with a T-55 which would lead to one country having I believe 3 whole series of tanks deleted because folks decided we needed them because they were planned to be modernized or bought. Problem was no one ever followed up on them and they ALL died on the vine. And that was just one country. To be fair, a couple were inherited from "SP" the rest however, were not.

Not how I for my part, thought I'd "see the world". Here's your ref...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...n_service.html

Elsewhere the...

The U.S. has recently just started to field the M1A2 SEP V3 and has approved funding for the development of the M1A2 SEP V4 more on that later.

Turkey appears to be getting back on track with the ALTAY and as already posted, will have ANOTHER, like the above ARMATA pushed back fielding date.

Iran well they're about to field their latest MBT it looks like possibly later this year, the already posted KARRAR which looks like a T-72MS but here's what a Russian tank expert thinks about it...

"According to military experts, the Karrar MBT is based on the chassis of the Soviet-made T-72 but fitted with a new turret. The design of the tank seems to be very similar to the Russian-made T-90MS. According to retired Major General Vladimir Bogatyrev, the Karrar is a copy of the Russian-made T-90MS, the most advanced modification of the T-90 family but it uses some features of the American M1 Abrams and British Challenger 2. Russian military expert suggested that, in terms of certain military capabilities, the Karrar is unlikely to match the Russian T-90."

Hhmmmm, So given the last sentence of the last, if it's probably not as good as a T-90, it must have used the worst attributes of the M1 ABRAMS and CHALLENGER 2 and we know how bad those tanks are. :rolleyes:

That being said this tank is a quantum leap for Iran and I'm thinking for what little it's worth, probably not as bad as our Russian expert thinks.

So for you geography types, looking at the map and the current nature of the political scene, someone is looking rather contained at least within the next 5 to 10 yrs anyway. Time will tell.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...ered_soon.html

Before I forget but, they're friends (Trying to contain China.) and India was only left out of this well because, they're India. Such potential with their heavy armor but, I wonder if we'll see the ARJUN Mk II or FMBT before the games end. The former is "World Class" and the latter if completed could be a "Top 5" contender.

Anyway off to bed and back to work later today. I hope EVERYONE has a GREAT DAY!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Found something I wasn’t expecting to see, so to ease my mind, is South Korea’s K1 MBT still in service? I’m 4hrs from my PC and can’t get to the game. Had to get to bed when I came across an article concerning the K-series of tanks. Many thanks in advance!! Just want to give my brain a rest and then this is floating around inside of it. :sick:

Regards,
Pat
:p this to show what the iPad won’t let me do!

Re: MBT's
 

Yes, it is

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
THANKS! Found an article dealing with an upcoming modernization for all three K-tanks. Base K1 should be around until games end, Your reply assures me of that.

Will post it mid-week when we get back. No hidden work just some FYI stuff. And Turkey with Germany concerning the continuing the circus surrounding the Turkish LEOPARD tanks. Another example of how things can change on a dime and back again!?! :rolleyes:

AGAIN Thank You!

Regards,
Pat
:)

Re: MBT's
 

Portuguese Army retires M60A3TTS in March 2018
https://scontent.flis5-1.fna.fbcdn.n...a7&oe=5B052641

Thanks

Re: MBT's
 

Russian tanks for dummies !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oAv9ugRx2g
NOTHING here (probably) Fast Tough hasn't already covered.

Re: MBT's
 

And just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water sailor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEibU7NiR-M

Re: MBT's
 

:doh::re:

Re: MBT's
 

I shall endeavor to post my response to Suhiir's last two posts in the following manner.

On the first post...
Sometime ago my posts concerning the T-80 where picked up online. I was contacted by a group about 6-8 months ago via a PM in our forum. I was asked if they could use the information I posted and if I had any additional information concerning the T-80 that would help in the development of the video as posted. I always can provide further information concerning a particular topic and did so in this case. :D As Suhiir astutely pointed out in her post with the video, there is no probably, as I'm fully aware of my extensive knowledge of Russian tanks and in particular the more high tech versions which the T-80 represented at the time.

I'm sure EVERYONE found that information useful and helpful. My apologies to everyone for the fact that, try as I am, I couldn't get them to change that stupid video for one more focused on the T-80. :bs: :ahh: Yes it was that frustrating. :cold:

Concerning the second post...
Yes I was outed here, I had come across some information concerning the further development of the ABRAMS beyond the SEP V4. I wanted to post it, however, I needed to verify the data. After some further research, I notified the parties involved that unfortunately the data was incorrect. The first concern I picked up on was the fact that everyone knows or should know, that an increase of 1mm to the main gun is insufficient to increase armor penetration by 1000mm. Using the math formula for Thermal Dynamic Mass Expansion Coefficient Theorem (TDMECT), that to achieve 1000mm extra armor penetration you need to increase the shells performance by a minimum of 27% and increase the bore from 120mm to 123mm (124mm would be better by my calculations. :D)

The narrator for that video was just pissed off after spending 3 days in the production of it until I notified the group of my extensive research and results from my calculations using TDMECT.

So there you have it, with , again, my apologies. I was lead to believe these videos, especially the second, wouldn't see the "light of day" but instead it saw the "moonlight of night".

A most embarrassing situation. :o

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Some NEWS and other FYI items:

1. This next site is a resource and should provide a simple example of one of the tank issues we worked on in preparation for the Patch release. I hope you find it useful.
http://www.patton-mania.com/index.html

2. Australia: Armor upgrades coming to the Army.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...s_planned.html

2. Croatia: We've been down this road with the rumors of an upgrade coming to their M-84 tank, but this time I give credence to this latest report.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...nks_fleet.html

3. Germany: Has come to an agreement with SAAB to supple camo packages for the LEOPARD 2A7V. Few companies can do a better job with this product then SAAB, says volumes if Germany is using them.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...d-2-a7v-tanks/

4. Iraq: I believe I might've posted this already, but, if not this will be the last time. Iraq gets it's first batch of T-90S tanks.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/febr...s_to_iraq.html

5. Poland: First Poland wants in on the German/French LEOCLERC
tank.
http://www.defence24.com/mbt-for-pol...olish-industry
Next the PT-91 TWANDY receives new TI sights for the tanks equipped with the upgraded SKO-1T DRAWA-T FCS. Something to address next year.
http://www.defence24.com/pco-deliver...the-twardy-mbt

6. Russia: I know I posted about the Russians getting this tank during our OOB work, however I don't remember if I posted the tech sheet for it.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ata_sheet.html

7. Thailand: Ukraine keeping it's promise under the revised contract. This matter is now closed as far as I'm concerned. The only news will be if the Thai's find the OPLOT-M and order more. Also seeing "hints" that they might be tracking the outcome of Pakistan's evaluation of the new OPLOT-P.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru..._complete.html

8. Turkey: So Don, guess what we'll be adding to the Turkish tanks next year, and it was a "hot topic" in the forum? I know your brain is nearing the "mush point" yes, finally APS. I would say at a minimum this will go on the LEOPARDS and M60T tanks.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march..._in_syria.html

Why Don and I love Turkey so much...
From this past January...
http://dieselgasoil.com/news/germany...ovt-spokesman/
About 2 weeks later...
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...es-for-turkey/

Finally Otokar submitted which built the ALTAY prototypes has submitted it's second and final proposal to build the ALTAY when it goes into serial production. Two other Turkish companies have also submitted bids for that contract. Decision to come later in the Spring or Summer if not delayed by well, something.
http://www.army-technology.com/contr...al-production/

9. USA: Well we're evaluating a couple of light tank options for the Airborne and the BCT in Europe. This will be our first light tank since the SHERIDON M-551. I think this will be a better tank, however, they better bring on the armor upgrade package. Hopefully in order of date.
http://www.leonardodrs.com/sitrep/q3...hicle-package/
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ausa..._10410161.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...firepower.html

Now you see how long I keep things. ;)

Anyway this is enough for now did a good file clean out which is always a good thing.

Have a good night or morning!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...elopment-test/

Re: MBT's
 

For clarification concerning Thailand, by my indicating there might be a possibility that they might order more OPLOT-M tanks, I meant to say, should they find that it out performs the Chinese MBT 3000/VT-4 tanks they've received.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Paraguay retires last M4 Sherman in April, acording to Janes
http://www.janes.com/article/79476/p...s-from-service
Thanks

Re: MBT's
 

So now Paraguay has no tanks................. except for a handful of Stuarts

Re: MBT's
 

They should be retiring the Stuarts too. Their job is to train the army in Anti-tank warfare, thats their use.
Their real AFV is the EE9 Cascavel, its 90mm NR478A2 HEAT supplied by Brazil is enouth to the Bolivias SK105 tanks, against Argentina/Brazil they must invest in modern ATGMs.
Thanks

Re: MBT's
 

These refs. both sourced from IHS JANE's shows in 2014, 10 Stuarts were pulled from storage, modified with new engines and the M2 50 Cal. vice the original 30 Cal.
https://tankandafvnews.com/2016/01/0...ks-in-service/
http://ww2live.com/en/content/world-...ly-operational

Concur on the SHERMAN's can't find anything saying the STUART's are coming out of service anytime soon.

Still trying to track stuff when I can.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Some of the Stuart received a M20 75mm RCL instead of the M2HB.
Thanks

Re: MBT's
 

Re: MBT's
 

Yes, and the introdution of the M2HB too. I was just showing a foto
Thanks