Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You will see the major benefit of RC when you capture the alien planet with other atmosphere breathers. If it is a fringe colony with few people, you would pay anything to have RC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Firstly, the reproduction/ER increase costs. I will do a few calculations for different possible values for reaching, say, +20% in reproduction. You will have to choose then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As for the Organic Facilities, I have to admit I am myself not fond of this trait, so I am not in a position to really speak about the other organic facilities. Nonetheless, you seem to make a point as Organic facilities are a bit improved if these facilities suit your playstyle.

I would support the reduction of the research requirements for the Replicant Centers, but not the actual improvement of the Replicant Center (contrary to what I wrote in my Last post), because I also thought of another factor. +20 million inhabitants a year is fine enough (for me at least) on well populated planets, but this would be a problem with planets much less populated. I find it quite strange when your tiny moon is "producing" 20 million settlers each year while it is only populated by 3 millions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And as you cannot restrict the use of a given facility, then reducing the requirements would be easier.

Sure Oleg, if you are patient enough that is to "develop" the number of this population. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (Requiring micromanagement to put one million of these settlers to each planet with a Replicant Center, to increase the "creation" rates) Then it would be useful indeed. I have to admit I would prefer to use Atmosphere Converters, but that is merely a matter of taste. (Or that is because of my own silliness) Good point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to (PV) this is the textbook answer from Frequently Asked Questions.

Basically, the FAQ will apply for all Human Players that play AIC. With the exception of Cities and Urban Centers Homeworlds inclusive; they afford Commerce (Imperial Trade if you will) to the Human Player and is thereby unaffected by PV to a degree in AIC.

Loosely, this application of Commerce is applied also to the entire economy for the AI on AIC and is thereby NOT effected by poor Planet Values. Directly that is

I will follow-up with how I Interpret the AI perceptions on some PV applications and AI scenarios.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How do you "Interpret the AI perceptions on some PV applications and AI scenarios."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please picture this if you will. One human and One AI player are close with three systems dividing you two.

Systems:
(A) Human Players Rock Home World (YOU GLV)
\
(B) (YOU CLAIM) With one 130% empty HUGE OPTIMAL- Mineral ICE Planet, you have already colonized (or not) most of the Rock planets worth Colonizing here.
/
(C) Theoretical No-Mans Land, with a full Asteroid belt.(BOTH CLAIM - or not)
\
(D) (AI Claimed) Sparse and terrible non-GAS Planets however it does have one 99% mineral large ICE Planet.
/
(E) AI Players Home Gas World

Ok, now you guys have enjoyed this great agreement of Military and friendship for many years.

Until on this day; the AI Player achieves ICE Colonization and as a result of the [AI_Planet_Types file]* demands this AI Player to go for the (B) 130% Mineral ICE Planet; by passing >(D) 99% mineral ICE Planet
{We all have seen this; with the AI going to the boonies to Coloize, in our games}.

Now this really gets you up set http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
and you start to demand thru diplomacy; that you want that (B)130% ICE Planet,
but nooow >the AI Player says up yours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
so you keep demanding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif he keeps saying nooow >up yours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
until one of you breaks the Agreements, not necessarily war but that could be the option as well.

You now have the advantage of a powerful assault fleet.
Catching this trusting AI Player, that may have only been in the Infrastructure or Not Connected AI States… Hmmm, then again if you noticed extra BSY’s being built by him in the recent; just maybe he was Preparing for the attack on you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Anyway, you take the (B) 130% ICE Planet out (WACK –20% PV) right from the top and across the board this planet is now at minerals 104%. Then (WHAM –20% PV) he now just took you out. Planet now at 83% mineral PV…

“Hey wait a minute”; this AI Player Says to him self. “never mind”, I actually like the >(D) 99% mineral ICE Planet better now.
Also since (B)Planets Value is now below 100%, the AI Player may just move on to the next Item on the AI_Planet_Types file; certainly that planet is no longer a consideration for that AI in respects to a Mineral Colony.

So all is now happy ever after and you guys make up… Until you attack him again GLV, you blood thirsty warmongering (bleep) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
- - - -

Basically, in a lot of peaceful scenarios the AI will be come less insistent as the desirability of Planets PV is decreased. They’re by less likely for the AI Players to commit its assets in Systems he cannot efficiently reach or fight over with any realistic strength; wave after wave or again and again.

Also to note: If the AI is in the Neg of any resource, his next Colony will be most likely will be the Closest Planet; regardless of the PV for that Resource. This explains why the AI builds Mining Colonies on Min 40*Orgs 123*Rads 132. Then you say why did the AI build Mining Facilities here; I would have made this a RAD Colony... Dumb AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
You, not knowing the AI Player needed minerals; because you just took all his >in that Last Offer Trade of AI's 100000 mins for your 80001 Rads that {one way trade} resulted in the AIs now scraping and scurrying to recover from deficits.

= = = = = = = =

Reference

Se4 Default AI_Planet_Types file

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Planet Type := Mining Colony
Max Per System := 100
Percent of Colonies := 100
Minimum Planet Size for Type := Medium
Mineral Value := 101
Organics Value := 1
Radioactives Value := 1
Maximum Total in Empire := 2

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Planet Type := Mining Colony
Max Per System := 100
Percent of Colonies := 35
Minimum Planet Size for Type := Small
Mineral Value := 101
Organics Value := 1
Radioactives Value := 1
Maximum Total in Empire := 0

AI State := Not Connected
Planet Type := Mining Colony
Max Per System := 100
Percent of Colonies := 50
Minimum Planet Size for Type := Small
Mineral Value := 101
Organics Value := 0
Radioactives Value := 0
Maximum Total in Empire := 0

Or just in the Neg for Minerals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

AIC Settings
Planet Value Percent Loss After Owner Death := 20

[ September 22, 2003, 23:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

As for descriptions, I would still believe to add the values or perhaps even a description highlighting how efficient the reproduction is. (For instance, a "small mechanoid assistance during childbirth" for the weakest facility to something like "promotes the use of Genetics to drastically improve the reproduction and the fertility in this system" or something around these lines.)

The point would be to give the player an idea on how efficient these Cultural Centers are in improving the reproduction rates, so that he/she will decide whether to build another facility (with a better value) or not. Sadly, SE:IV keeps on saying that "You already have a facility in this system with similar abilities", even if this facility is outdated compared to the one you would like to build. And for obvious reasons, you cannot destroy your Cultural Centers to see their importance during an actual game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (Except if you DO want a challenge that is)

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

You are correct, we should add the Values to the CC description http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Consider it done for AIC 4.0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 18:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

10 Pop as a start is not really that bad either.
Certainly, much more Pop for an advanced Urban Center construction.
Even Hundreds of Pop for as an Industrial Planet with a Shipyard to be more effective then a BSY's.

[ September 22, 2003, 18:39: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

What do you mean by?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure I get your meaning. Do you mean a Replicant Center is more effective on a well populated world, or the contrary? Or something else completely different?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Actually, I may of missunderstood you, I thought we were past the RC and you meant you would be happy at 20m POP?

And with that I started babbeling http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 19:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I did say so a few Posts ago, but I changed my mind afterwards for the reason you mentioned and my Last point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I will be happy with less tech requirements for this facility. (If I play an Organic race that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Oh, I see where the problem was, I said 20 millions is fine for well populated planets, but not for much smaller ones. I believe it was the reason for the misunderstanding.

[ September 22, 2003, 19:33: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

As a proposal, as I said; I agree and that it may be time to drop the RC tech req.

However, there are Players that may feel that this is too much to give the Organic Races…

Best not to get stuck on this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
When Races where rebalanced from 2.xx going into and for v3.00 many players at that time, was concerned that I gave Planet Lore 1-3 to the Organics just to seal a deal that kept most happy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Therefore, this gave way to Psychic Intel to the Psychics and Creatation ot the Temporal BSY.
Then a few months latter the Crystalline felt slighted and the compromise was a Crystal Rad improvement Plant, that may really only help in Finite play and some resource trading, and since then it has been quite, until as I say the Temporals now may want more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 20:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I do understand your concern, and besides, there has not been much feedback on the RC for now (at least on the thread), so waiting is wise. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (As for the other traits, I do not have much to say about them, but worry not, I shall find something to complain about. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Great, please give some opinion on the Temporals, I have had some requests to reinforce this trait http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

A few suggested more in the line for more advantages build Rates on the Temporal BSY.
One suggestion was that the Temporal CC should have 9 or 10% for System Research up from 5%.

Oleg, you also like temporals, how do you find that balance?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 20:49: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I would be happy with All Racial Players Balanced with only a slight edge to the Organics.
Religious to complement any choice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

A better then slight edge to Non Racial Players, and this is why the Non Racial players received one Facility similar to that of each Racial Player, which is really only an advantage of one, since that shared facility is also avail to each of the other Racial Players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 20:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like Temporal in non-connected games where fast research is very important and nobody can beat Temporal here ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif My only suggestion is to have Temporal Planet Space Yard - with faster building rate than normal shipyard - available from the start. And why not if we have temporal base space yard ? To balance it, connect tech requirement for higher level with Space Yard Technology. Temporal player shall have to research both SY and Temporal tech. to get better facilities IMHO.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

About Starliner pictures - There are many Neo-standard shipsets nowdays. Neo-standard includes a TransportTiny picture. It is not used in AIC at all. Why not make it a primary picture source for Starliner hull ?? That's what I made in my instalment and am very happy playing very beatifull custom shipsets that now have distinct starliner pictures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 22:34: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Also proposed by Several Players; is an increase in StarLiner Speeds and Transport Speeds as it relates with propulsion levels, this looks like it may be in for AIC v4.0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Desired proposed StarLiner speeds:

Ion Engine, Contra Engine, Jacketed Engine, Quantum Engine

Small StarLiner with I=2 ~ J=3 ~ Q=4
Medium Starliners with C=2 ~ J=3
Large Starliner with J=2 ~ Q=3

Main concern here, it that a huge freight capacity carrying units to the front at rapid speeds, and the AI may be unable to keep up

[ September 23, 2003, 00:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like Temporal in non-connected games where fast research is very important and nobody can beat Temporal here ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif My only suggestion is to have Temporal Planet Space Yard - with faster building rate than normal shipyard - available from the start. And why not if we have temporal base space yard ? To balance it, connect tech requirement for higher level with Space Yard Technology. Temporal player shall have to research both SY and Temporal tech. to get better facilities IMHO.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats doable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The only worry is in Multiplayer/LAN games and as a Planet SY with to high a Rate; may then build advanced Urban Centers to quickly.
This should not be a problem at level one sounds good to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 23, 2003, 00:46: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great Idea. Consider it done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 23:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For reference concerns, how fast are Starliner with all the propulsion technologies with AIC 3.2? I do tend to not use these ones much when I reach high levels in Propulsion, so I have yet to see a Small Starliner with Quantum Engines. (And Propulsion is not usually my priority)

And around the same lines, how fast are the Transport hulls in comparison? Same remark as above for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (I should run such a test by tomorrow, as I unfortunately have to work tonight. *Grumbles about The Life, the Universe and Everything and tries to refrain himself from launching SE:IV* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, as long as level 1 is not much faster than normal SY, there should be no problem. If someone wants to build facilities faster, he will have to research SY+temporal tech. first. The situation would be almost identical to what we have now.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't like it. Especially speed 3 for "j" engines. It is not that difficult to research and it effectively makes your starliners 50% more efficient - you either can slash your fleet by conciderable numbers or make population shipping 50% faster. May be et "q" level, but not at "j".
Just MHO.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Hello,
Is there anyway to play this mod to take advantage of the improvements to the combat module without experiencing the lengthy econmoic/colony portion of the game?

Thanks
Devin

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Welcom to the Forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif the build up is 1/2 the fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I also agree with Oleg. Faster Starliners will take away from the logistics of AIC. This will really be a step backwards, I play tested it, and it stinks. Besides we have fast Pop transports with Medium Transport hull and just level 1 cargo bays. I like Alneyans ideas with the reproduction characteristics better, if a player wants increase the population faster with out to much logistics then play the Organic Race or beef up it up from the Empire settup with Alneyans characteristics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Oleg had a good idea about supplying images for the Human Players, there should also be a Scout and a CVE pic as well for each race.

[ September 25, 2003, 13:24: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great ideas for temporal balance and like Oleg said there at level one it does not make a difference with the advanced urban centers.
Besides IMHO by folding space and time. We Temporals should be able to build everything faster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I never like the idea of having to scrap the original HW planet shipyard just to build the Temporal one, now all we have to do is Upgrade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif GREAT Idea Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ September 25, 2003, 13:43: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

[quote]Originally posted by GLV:
No Warp Point games are boring
Try No Warp with FINITE, now this is a challenge

Actually, I will take up JLS’S suggestion to try No Warp COMBINED with NOT all warp Points Connected.
This with a regenerated Centurion Map to my liking and for my total pleasure, I will play with FINITE resources
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am having the time of my life, the adjacent system is (was) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif the Bobroba.
Sure the trade and research agreement was fine, but there Home World flying the GLV national flag is finer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My diplomacy leads with my gunboats
Diplomacy is for sissies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So if the AI went to a far away system to colonize and then any Player glassed that new Colony. That Planets value will drop and that AI is less likely to travel all the way back because there is a good chance that a better planet is closer to him, so that cycle is not repeated again and again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is why you set up the AI to trade for my two to his one. in resource kt.
This makes sense because it makes it difficult to accidentally-bankrupt the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Diplomacy nothing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif That is MY CLAIMED SPACE.
I would break the agreement- capture the bloody AI and there the GLV national flag will fly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 25, 2003, 14:23: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problems, start the game with high number of AIs, medium galaxy, all warp points connected. Give AI some bonus. For real fun select "team mode" - AI against humans. Enjoy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Well I guess the raising of Starliner speeds did not fly. They will remain as v3.02...

AIC v4.0 may have the perfect solution for everyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif and you all will be pleasantly surprised for its simplicity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hello Devin http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

GLVs Medium Tech level starts is a more gradual introduction and you will benefit with an increased infrastructure techs and buildings to support your fleets sooner.

Olegs suggestion is indeed a lot of fun for a death match against the AI, however the AI Player will make minced meat out of you; at higher AI player bonuses.
+
In addition to both the above suggestions, you may want to start also with *Human Player Trait Options 1 and 2 this will afford you a good size fleet with out even having to build one single additional facility http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If this is your first AIC game, it is suggested to play your games at AI Player bonus NONE, until you are more familiar with the Economics and the different mechanics of AIC.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 25, 2003, 20:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

HI Devin Bass and Welcome to the Forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Try this for your next NEW GAME settings:

Player Settings: Starting tech Level MEDIUM. You will start with most the early Tech tree including destroyers. Level high will give you a Home World like se4 and tons of Tec's to mess with. It will be more of a death match against You and the AI, but what ever floats your boat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I play MEDIUM settings if I want a to end a game sooner, it cuts out most of the early builds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Technology: Set to LOW, you can research Tec's much faster.
I like this for No-Warp or not all warp games. It also works well in any style game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I agree with Mottlee, I also like the building up to the crescendo.

[ September 25, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

What is your favorite quadrant type for a non (or semi-) connected, finite resources setup?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I would have to say the CENTURION RUINS Quad is my favorite AIC MAP. I regenerate this map first, and then I play with Low, Medium, or High amount of Computer Players in the start settings; depending on the Centurion map that was just generated. When playing Finite I prefer playing (Not) all Warp Points connected to that of No-Warp games, because there is a chance of a friendly neighboring Neutral Player, although on rare occasions I have started neighboring with another major AI Player.

Any of the Quad Maps are also good for a No-Warp or Not all Connected located in the upper portion of the Quad Map Menu.

PTF, would you suggest, or do you have any ideas for an enhanced Finite map, that can be used in many situations to be added to AIC?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 29, 2003, 13:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I know, unbelievable the amount of Event hits you get when the Players become fewer and the Event Chance is set at high pre game settings and this can be a problem.

If a Player wants more good and bad events, but not to be overwhelmed in the late game.
Maybe it would be a good strategy to start a game at a Moderate chance setting (or just have High around 60% in the Settings file) then build the plus chance Heroes Epic for the early game and as the other Players die off, scrap that Facility for the minus chance Epic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 01, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Something in the concept still makes me feel uncomfortable with the good events, balance-wise. If I refuse to build Heroes (or if one AI race does not build them), I would be cursed if all other races pave their systems with +Heroes, because this increases my event per hit chance by almost 100%. I think, either the event per chance modifiers should be removed completely or the good events should be removed to keep the hardcoded intention of this issue? I mean, good events is a nice idea, but if the hardcoded situation does not support this idea, it will be hard to find workarounds for all aspects, AI- and balancewise. Just my thoughts at the moment, don't be offended, I like the ideas, but ...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

In regards to the Event modifiers and with respect of the -CBEC Epic this is Identical to the existing FATE Shrine but will be in play by all races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
However, +CBEC is another matter and agreed, this needs to be well tested for function and so far so good, have you seen something with the +CBEC, PTF?

The consensus is that most Players want a combination of good events and bad events to remain for AIC. Therefore, it seems that the Default events file will include both good and bad.

However, others do not want this expanded on. So there will be 3 quick and easy overwrite ZIP file folders for the alternative so that ALL players will have what they want…
A: se4 Classic Events,
B: (new Default AIC good & bad)and
C: my favorite; AIC good and very bad Events. All to include Settings overwrites as well to reflect the appropriate chance settings.

The AI Players WILL be programmed to deal with any Event File option that is listed above, this has been completed and tested ands tested 90% with 8 Players and 2 Ntrls with good results from the current AIC v4.0 default Events file.

So far the Hardcode has not been an issue for the events them selves with Basic Good/Bad event selections in the mix, other then actual occurrence percentages decrease as the number of Events available increases, that I have seen in any way in the Last several weeks.

The only issue that we need to really put behind us; is whether se4 will critical error overtime with multiple plus CBEC readings. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Some other hard code Error questions and or functions.
When a Random warp is opened or Closed with a prevention facility is in play, this seems to be OK, but getting the warp to event open is rare indeed. Their is also other examples but we seemed to be past them and resolved or it will just not be included in the default AIC Events file.

[ October 01, 2003, 19:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

The initial chance numbers ranging near L40 M60 H90 posted by us is NOT likely going to be the AIC default.

Low will absolutely be 10% or 15% tops, when players want low event frequency they will get low frequency, with no real need to build any Epic Facility to modify the event occurrences. But there options still will be open http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Medium will range in-between 20 and 40% at or under a 30 % there is no need to build a –Epic but there may be the need to build the +Epic since most players are requesting this to be set at 50% default.

High really sounds good and currently plays very well at 90% when you are Playing a game against 15 or more Players; but when they start dieing off then frequency becomes nightmare for the HUMAN Players. Therefore, the logical default HIGH setting will be 40 to 60% so the –Epic (or Faith Shrine) will have the Players desired frequancey effect on event occurrences when players die off.

[ October 01, 2003, 18:01: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">My understanding of events frequency and events distribution is about this: You can not modify the overall number of events in the galaxy by Epic or Faith Shrines, this should be a fixed frequency given by the event frequency setup. With Epic facilities you should be able to modify only the occurrences frequency in the regarding systems, which will be neutralized if every system gets the same modifier. Players with the highest lucky modifiers will only push the events to the more cursed players, but the sum of events will remain the same. If every player has got the same modifier in all of his systems, the events should happen in the same way as if there would be no modifiers at all.

[ October 01, 2003, 19:03: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Correct, the Settings Data File will have the overall BASE numbers (not fixed) at these proposed percentages for all System in the Quad.

Low Chance = 10% as was AIC v3.02 settings with many good events added (no harm here)
Medium = 30% up 10% from AIC v3.02
High = Undecided but most likely this will be around 55% Chance
= = =

The AIC v4.0 Default Events file Severity Categories:
Low won’t even have -5 Planet Condition or –20 PV events they moved up to medium events but low also will have many low end good events.

Medium will have (NO) scalding events and many good events. The Rebel, -10 PC etc. and Warp Close are or have been gone. Warp Close/Open and Rebel is now just in High and Cat as it was. -10 PC and -40 PV is out of the game for now.

High will have most the usual AIC 3.02 Events with a few GREAT new good events.

CAT will have most the usual AIC v3.02 Events with 2 Spectacular and new good EVENTS.
- - -

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Basically.

However, with this example I may explain better:

Lets say the Settings file is set for medium 30% and the Human Player choices Medium Event Frequency at the pre-new game settings EVENTS menu.

Therefore, the base is now 30% Chance that an event will be called from the se4 hardcode protocols.

Please note, the Players Can alter this if he/she desire up or down for each system.
By the Epic Facility that if or when be built in that System.

For example the Home System may want the –40% Chance Facility
Where none may be wanted in another established System.
However there WILL be a strong desire to increase the CHANCE for a Friendly roll or that deadly roll for the Random GREAT to Spectacular Event with a +Epic of 20% in that newly Colonized system.

Or the MED 30% base may be to boring at that point in there game for some players and they may desire to increase the Systems chance with a +Epic.

Players in the game may realize that the High setting of 55% was fine and very exciting for 15 Players. But now its down to 7 survivors and they are worried about the increasing frequency of events being dispersed now only over 7 players instead of the full 15 starting Players. I believe they will definitely want the -CBEC and start building the –40 Epics in almost every system, to be sure as the survivors get even fewer and the discernments are handed out to you and a few.
- - - -

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Lucky (under another title and will be FREE in AIC) may be desired by a Player and it will represent 50% fewer events, this is good for a Multiplayer game and the Majority want the pre-game Event setting higher then you would like them to be.

Cursed (under another title in AIC) may be desired, if the majorities in a Multiplayer game want the Events LOW and then this will be FREE to you if you want a possibility of increased events for your Character Race.
- - - -

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">True, only if a Epic or even the Fate Shrine is and was never built in that System, or one believes the Fate Shrine was never fixed by MM or just has no faith.

However, the overall SUM to include the different modifiers from the Epic or Fate Shrine will change the results of the overall in System Events when built; if all else is true. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
True? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT: Added
REFERENCE

ABILITIES DATA FILE
Change Bad Event Chance - System
Value1 = Percentage change in chance for bad event for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 =

= = = =

Version History for Space Empires IV
Version 1.66:
8. Fixed - "Lucky" racial trait was not always working.
9. Fixed - Abilities "Change Bad Event Chance - System" and "Change Bad Intelligence
Chance - System" were not always working.

= = = = =

================================================== =====================================
GAME SETTINGS DATA FILE ~ AIC ~ 4.00
================================================== =====================================

================================================== =====================================
*BEGIN*
================================================== =====================================

Allow CD Music := FALSE
Use Old Log Political Message Display := FALSE
"~"
"~"

[ October 01, 2003, 20:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS, not quite. The chances for events in Settings.txt are not chances for a system, they are instead simply the chance that an event will occur on any given turn. A random event is not called for in any particular system; it is generated separately, and then a target is chosen after the event is generated. Once the event occurs, then a random system, planet, ship, etc. is selected as its target. Without any modifiers, all systems have exactly identical chances of being hit. Those numbers are indeed fixed for the entire game (unless you change the file mid-game, of course). No facilities can have any possible affect on them. All that the facilities do is fiddle with which system gets hit, not with the chances that an event will occur.

[ October 01, 2003, 20:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As I POSTED http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

“Correct, the Settings Data File will have the overall BASE numbers (not fixed) at these proposed percentages for all System in the Quad.”

“Therefore, the base is now 30% Chance that an event will be called from the se4 hardcode protocols.”
- - - -
-
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is where the CBEC modifies this chance of the event to actually occur in that system.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was explaining that the Setting Data file Numbers are a base, and that the sum will be Modified by CBEC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

An absolute SUM cannot be absolutely fixed, if it still can be further modified, or our are we just splitting hairs here, Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 01, 2003, 20:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

You missed the point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is wrong, as is much of the rest of the post, based off of this sort of thing. The numbers are absolutely fixed. Nothing you can do or change in the game (short of modding the data files) can affect these numbers in any way. It does not matter how many fate shrines you have or what racial traits you have; the chance of an event occuring on any turn is fixed (as the event is generated BEFORE a target is selected; they are totally independant processes). Additionally, from the rest of the post, it seems that you are saying that each system has a X percent chance of events, based on the settings. But, this is not true at all. The chance of an event hitting a system is just based on how many systems there are, regardless of the event chance settings. This is not splitting hairs, it is clarifying what those settings actually do and how they actually work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

There is nowhere near a (for example) 10% chance each turn that a system will be hit by an event. With 100 systems, it is more like a 0.1% chance each turn that a particular system will be hit (and that is of course totally inaccurate due to randomness http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

[ October 01, 2003, 20:56: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Completeted Reference:
ABILITIES DATA FILE
Change Bad Event Chance - System
Value1 = Percentage change in chance for bad event for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 =

= = = =
Version History for Space Empires IV
Version 1.66:
8. Fixed - "Lucky" racial trait was not always working.
9. Fixed - Abilities "Change Bad Event Chance - System" and "Change Bad Intelligence
Chance - System" were not always working.

= = = = =

================================================== =====================================
GAME SETTINGS DATA FILE ~ AIC ~ 4.00
================================================== =====================================

================================================== =====================================
*BEGIN*
================================================== =====================================

Allow CD Music := FALSE
Use Old Log Political Message Display := FALSE
"~"
"~"
Event Percent Chance Low := 10
Event Percent Chance Medium := 30
Event Percent Chance High := 55
"~"
"~"

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Not sure what the point of copying those lines from the data files was. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif So, I will await your next response. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 01, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Quote:

I was explaining that the Setting Data file Numbers are a base, and that will be Modified.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is wrong, as is much of the rest of the post, based off of this sort of thing. The numbers are absolutely fixed. Nothing you can do or change in the game (short of modding the data files) can affect these numbers in any way. It does not matter how many fate shrines you have or what racial traits you have; the chance of an event occuring on any turn is fixed (as the event is generated BEFORE a target is selected; they are totally independant processes). Additionally, from the rest of the post, it seems that you are saying that each system has a X percent chance of events, based on the settings. But, this is not true at all. The chance of an event hitting a system is just based on how many systems there are, regardless of the event chance settings. This is not splitting hairs, it is clarifying what those settings actually do and how they actually work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

There is nowhere near a (for example) 10% chance each turn that a system will be hit by an event. With 100 systems, it is more like a 0.1% chance each turn that a particular system will be hit (and that is of course totally inaccurate due to randomness http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If I understand you correctly and with this new example…
That if a ship has a to hit of “0” with out a Combat Sensor installed.
Then installed a Combat Sensor on that ship, what I understant you to say; is sinuous that the +10 To Hit modifier one gets with a combat sensor will not change that base line sum; and that Ship will always hit at "FIXED" zero in the above example.

Well anyway can you please explain how you sum up this ability to the Base line setting sum of 30% Event Frequency that is in the Settng Datafile with: -40% CBEC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

. ABILITIES DATA FILE
Change Bad Event Chance - System
Value1 = Percentage change in chance for bad event for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 =

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 01, 2003, 21:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

[ October 01, 2003, 21:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry Fyron, my cat sat on the ENTER key and added a double reply before I was finished... I fixed the Last Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

The facilities and traits affect the random selection process that determines which system gets hit by a generated event. The settings.txt stuff affects the chance of an event being generated in a turn.

The facilities and traits have no affect on whether an event is generated or not. They only come into play when the game selects a random target for the event. This is because the game first randomly determines if an event is to occur on a given turn, based on the Settings.txt lines. Then, it picks the type of event randomly based on severity settings and what is in the Events.txt file. Finally, it selects a target for the event. This is where the facilities and traits come into play: they can make it more or less likely that an object in a given system will be chosen for the event to hit it. But, the event has already been generated, and will hit something regardless of the facility/trait modifiers (if they add up to 100% event reduction and are in all systems, the event will still occur anyways). Unless, of course, there is no valid target for the event, such as a ship bomb when there are 0 ships in the game. I do not know what happens then; the game either cans the event for that turn or it picks a new event type.

The combat sensor is not handled in the same way at all, because vastly different functions are at work for it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Basically, the (for example) "base chance" of 30% of an event hitting a system is wrong. It is just a 30% chance that an event will be selected to occur on a given turn. The "base chance" of an event hitting any particular system is 1 / total number of systems (x 100% if you want a percent value instead of a decimal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Let narrow this down to this paragraph, if we could please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You are telling us here that the event will hit anyway, even as you say there is a 99% or better reduction in an event to occur in that system, and that a Colonized planet will get hit in that system no matter what? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This portion you agree on what I already posted for the most part http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Event, I believe is caned, because there are less events overall occouring with -40% CBEC

[ October 01, 2003, 21:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Let narrow this down to this paragraph, if we could please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You are telling us here that the event will hit anyway, even as you say there is a 99% or better reduction in an event to occur in that system, and that a Colonized planet will get hit in that system no matter what? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fyron means that, when an event has been generated (say, there is a 50% chance in settings.txt, an event should be generated every two turns), it *will* happen no matter what. Let's say there are only two systems in the system. In the first one, -99% chances to have an event, in the second one, no special facilities.

The event will almost always hit the second system with such an event, but if there were a facility giving -99% chances for an event in this system as well, then the odds would be roughly equal. However, what happens if an event cannot occur in a given system is still unknown. (If it is a Star Destroyed event where there are no stars in thsi system for instance)

Either the system is chosen before the event type (and then, when the event isn't comptabible, the program chooses another event or cancel the event) , or the event type is chosen before the targeted system, meaning a system without ships cannot suffer from a "Ship Moved" event. The second would seem the most likely and the easier to use, but who knows?