Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Drones with RPG warheads will be in the V18 Ukraine OOB and the V18 Russian Extension OOB has a KUB-2

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Lithuania has formally left the Cluster Munitions treaty:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...espite-outrage

Poland is making noises about withdrawing from the mine treaty + cluster munitions treaty:

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/48475

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

I for one say good for Lithuania and Poland.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidha...-mine-warfare/

https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-...adsZ/960x0.jpg

Russian map showing locations of mines laid by drones on logistics routes around Krynky
RUSSIAN TELEGRAM VIA ROY

:eek:

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Love it, designing patterns to confuse your opponent is one of the best parts of playing these games in my opinion. Reminds me of designing dungeons for D&D, designed like a maze, with the intention of finding no way out.

On a serious note, if that war is ever concluded, the civians are going to have to get used living in despair until those fields are cleared. Glad I don't live there.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

One of the things that jumped out for me is that the traditional model of mine deployment in Steel Panthers (mines only being able to be bought as the defender in an assault/defend game) may no longer work; due to drone-laid mines making it very easy to deploy mines overnight -- granted, these drone laid mines would be very easy to see -- literally on the road surface(s), but there would be so many of them; achieving the objective of slowing down the enemy as they're forced to stop and begin mine-clearing.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, that we have to deal with attack drones now, and it is what it is, to possibly have mine laying drones which theoretically you can have untold number of I would believe would change the game's dynamic and the game times being extended.

Baseball a couple of years ago switched to the 30 Second "pitch clock" that has pretty much across the board shorted the game by at least 40 minutes to an hour+ and drove up viewership and improved attendance at the stadiums after slumping in both categories for a few years this was a major plus for the game.

I again would RESPECTFULLY suggest such a move would be like Baseball saying "screw" the fans and who needs television viewership (Which for MLB would equate to a significant loss in profits due to loss in advertising revenue that especially the "poorer" teams rely on from the revenue sharing practices of the MLB.) if they "turned the clock back" so to speak.

It's the best analogy I could come up with "on the fly" in relationship of its significance to that game.

My typical turn count based on our current map size etc. etc. is 25 to 35 turns per game on average over the same number of battles in my typical Campaign.

My buy under such circumstances would be to buy these wonderful drones, mine laying artillery a handful of tanks with some infantry and some SPAA.

My tactics would be to mine the Hell out of the approaches and my flags. My mobile units would be in "safe zones" to respond to any breach or if opportunity allows capture what flags I can AFTER the AI HAS BLOODIED ITSELF or SIMPLY RUN OUT OF TIME.

WE MUST NOT FORGET (2) things about the AI on the ATTACK or MEETING ENGAGEMENT it has one role CAPTURE AND CAPTURE MORE.

I have seen such as a single ATGW team "pop up" and start to capture flags when the AI hardly had a unit left on the map.

When the AI is DEFENDING I've NEVER ONE TIME seen where I've haven't had to clear some fairly or more dense minefields.

It's very SLOW and can be VERY COSTLY and this in OVER 20 YEARS OF PLAYING against the AI.

Been playing this game from its ORIGIN TO ITS PRESENT PRESENTAION and it has always been about TACTICAL MANUVER.

What I feel at this moment is that mine laying drones would put us at a "CROSSROADS" better defined as VERY LOOSLY WWI or more to the point the Ukraine potentially.

I didn't invest all my time and some money to spend half a battle or more to clearing minefields.

Again, that is exactly what's happening in the Ukraine to a large extent.

You're not hearing so much about battles as you are about Drones I.E. this weekend's Drone attack on Kiev.

There is always a Cost and with that there's always a "Cause and Affect" or "Unintended Consequences" that come into play :rolleyes:.

And if nothing I posted has any effect on your point of view, take a few moments and look at that Russian map again Mark posted (164) above.

I did and that's why this was posted. My game/RL reaction was OMG what a nightmare that would be.

Was to post this a 3 hours ago however, I never miss CINCLANTHOMEs Pot Roast and a little after dinner chat on my off days!! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

I had to ask ChatGPT to summarize what you are trying to say, the AI said your saying:

The poster is expressing concern that adding mine-laying drones to a wargame would drastically slow down gameplay, much like real-world conflicts (e.g., Ukraine) where mines and drones have made battles more about attrition and slow progress than maneuver warfare. They compare it to Major League Baseball's pitch clock, which shortened games and improved engagement—implying the opposite effect would happen if mine-laying drones were added to the game.

They explain their fear that players (especially the AI) would focus on flooding the map with mines, leading to longer, slower, more tedious games with less tactical flexibility. This could lead to frustration and potentially drive players away from the game.

Their main point: while modern warfare includes drones and mines, bringing that fully into the game could hurt the gameplay experience by shifting it from fast-paced tactical maneuvering to slow, defensive attrition warfare—which they feel would be a bad design decision.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

A good post that highlights the dangers of knee jerk reactions and/or, ideas that seem great on paper...but..... When you have a game that allows the level of detail control like SP, you have to take a critical factor into account, at least this is my opinion based on my time as a developer.

"Players find a way."

a rule or function that might be blasé on surface value can exponentially result in a "gaming the system" situation. Example? empty panzer corps in Eastern front games. War in the Pacific.....using PBY's or subs to "invade" undefended bases....take them and then withdrawal by the same means when your opponent responds. It's maddening....and it is exponentially tied to the level of detail control the player has. I love GG games but a price of them is that GOD level command allows for so much potential abuse.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

https://x.com/Osint613/status/1927750905958371449

There's also footage of the lasers bringing down drones on other twitter xposts.

I've also heard rumors that the Russians have been using lasers as well to deal with Ukrainian UAS attacking Moscow area, etc.