Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Oh, he has not responded to my messages so I wanted to double check whether he is still in the game.
Clearly, it makes a big difference whether or not he cont. to play.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Oh, great hearing from you. Considering that hosting will go down soon we have lot's to cover in short time :)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Oh, just for a heads up, I will be traveling from July 3rd-12th, and will likely not have the multiple hours it takes to finish a turn on this monstrosity, so I may have to ask for it to be delayed until I get back. (I'll actually try to get a turn done while I'm gone, but don't want to worry about the timer being on.)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

NP as far as I'm concerned.
Could you plz drop me a reminder closer to your vacation?

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

this thread is going to probably make it to a 1year anniversary without a victor.... WOW

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Ok, there are obviously some big wars on the horizon in this game :) so I am now going to make an attempt to try and nail down when the second big bang is kicking off, and hopefully clear up a bit of possible confusion that seems to exist. Since it seems that at least three players in this game think the NAP's are ending on three different turn numbers.

In everything, I have assumed that all NAP's are 3-turn.
The above was posted by Wokeye on 15th June 2009. It is also the same date that I agreed to sub-in as Utgard. The game was on turn 101 at the time.

So on turn 101, Ulm gave notice to all nations of cancelling their NAP's. So.....

Game Turn 101 - This is Turn 1 of NAP Cancellation Notice
Game Turn 102 - This is Turn 2 of NAP Cancellation Notice
Game Turn 103 - This is Turn 3 of NAP Cancellation Notice. Hostile orders can now be given.
Game Turn 104 - All of Ulm's NAP's have been dissolved, and any battles occurring are legit (with regards proper NAP cancellation)

The above is the timetable I always use with regards cancelled NAP's. But it's would be good if everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet on this one, so as to avoid anyone getting an early surprise.
The above was posted by WraithLord, also on the 15th June 2009. The game was still on turn 101 at the time I believe.

Wraith / Micah, I am not sure if you have already arranged a timetable between yourselves, but if not, I think the one above for Ulm could be used here as well if you both agree with it.

Please can I ask all the affected parties to post and voice their agreement / disagreement with the above timetable suggestion. Utgard is personally happy with most interpretations of when the NAP's are actually ending, it would just be quite nice to know what the timetable actually is :) rather than trying to guess it :(

Looking forward to a fair, hard fought, and well deserved conclusion to this epic game.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

I generally read them as going x hosts, then attack orders. Otherwise a NAP-1 wouldn't be a pact of non-aggression so much as a "pact of warning you as I attack you." Not that you see many 1 turn NAPs, but it's useful for illustration purposes.

I also have the most to gain by an extra turn here, but I'd like to be on the same page at least, even if other parties are planning on using the shorter timetable.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Oh well, I guess the Ulm part of my above timetable can be disregarded. Looks like they were eager to get started and jumped the gun this turn by using forged travel documents to enter into Utgard lands.

Skratti, stand by your marks!

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

My interpretation was that hostile orders could be given at turn 103. However, since Micah has a different interpretation I see no harm in waiting an extra turn.

I wonder whether or not Ulm was serious about canceling all his NAP or was just making a dramatic exaggerated statement. It doesn't make much sense to cancel all your NAPs at once - well unless you can easily squish all the other nations. Perhaps this is something that Micah could do. Ha, now that would have been interesting :)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Even if I could kill everyone else off at once it wouldn't make sense to try, since I'd have to deal with tons more raiding and annoyances, and Marignon has provided plenty of things to attack, I haven't been in need of any extra targets.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

0 turns of NAP is the same as an unannounced surprise attack
1 turn of NAP gives your opponent one full turn of activities in which to prepare

However, a further issue is that if notice of ending a NAP is done in a public forum, or through a forum PM, it is impossible to be sure when your opponent gets the notice, or how much of the turn he has already completed. So, I think, traditionally you start the first turn of the NAP countdown the next turn, for public notices.

ie, in the case in question (let us say), during turn 101 a public notice is given of ending a 3 turn NAP. 101 wouldn't count, as players may already have done their turns. so 102, 103, and 104 are the 3 turns of preparation that your opponents enjoy, and attacks may be launched on turn 104 as they will then "land" in turn 105.

If the notice of NAP ending had also been sent ingame turn 100 such that people received it w/ their turn 101 messages, then the schedule would be advanced one turn.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

So the best way to break a NAP is via in-game message.
Pardon my uninvited posting here but I'm amazed this game is still on.
If I remember the sign up began way back when we had the old forum!

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Apologies to Calahan (Utgard) - you are quite correct with your reasoning. I see where my mistake counting turns was made...(stupid scrawled notes overlain by kids crayon).

Ulm will retreat from the attacked Utgard front for a further three turns. Plenty of other things to do :)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

no, because there is no record of the message. Best is to do both: send ingame, and then in the turn make the declaration public, w/ the comment that the declaration had been sent ingame; even best is then to explicitly state the turn attacks can land.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

p1 - "ZOMG! You foul betrayers of treaties! You can't give orders to attack until turn 97!"

p2 - "Slander! You posted on the boards that you dissolved our NAP-3, and that was in turn 94. My armies arrived in your lands 3 turns later."

p1 - "p2 is a rotten ratfink and cannot be trusted!"

p2 - "By your way of counting, we'd need a negative 1-turn NAP to avoid sneak attacks."

p1 - "No, my way of counting is the right way. I want a rollback."

p2 - "ZOMG I can't believe you attacked me after the rollback!"

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

i enjoy using the forum pm system because you can select to be notified when the message was read.... thereby.... no lying about if or when someone read something or not


some people don't use the forums though ingame is a surefire way to deal with naps with strangers... naps with friends well... you know how a friend likes to be dealt with

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Tsk tsk, seems Wokeye's got an interesting definition of withdrawal, judging from the continued sieges of at least one of Utgard's forts. I believe he also jumped the gun on our NAP by a turn, but that could at least be debated.

I suppose I'll be seeing what you've got this turn, Wraith. Hope it's something interesting, nothing else has been of late...

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Micah, now I have performance anxiety. I don't want to disappoint you, yet, in the face of your tartarian hordes I probably will :)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

I think I'm at 54 tart commanders this turn, plus another 100 or so as chaff. I'm somewhat disappointed with the performance of my abomination squads, I hadn't considered their imperfect morale before now, and having them rout was quite annoying. Guess I just need to figure out how to berserk them.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Do units still fire when they're berserking?

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Hmm... yes I dont know hat happened in 74 - troops ordered out this turn. 57 is a riot by two recalcitrant thralls, Utgard is welcome to do with them what they will. Apologies to Utgard.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Ugh, are we done yet?

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

come on Micah - it's only a few dozen more turns tops!


:eek:

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

I believe we are.
For having a fighting chance to stop you some things needed to happen that didn't happen, chief amongst them:
- Breaking your iron grip on Utgard
- Overwriting your forge (cleverly disguised as Utgard's, you had me fooled for a while :) )
- Making the cost of earning each new VP very high to you. Apparently you just took them as you pleased.

With a bit, or a lot, of luck things might have gone a different route, but they haven't and basically you had all the corners covered. And while I might have enjoyed raiding your lands while you concentrate on other stuff - that would have ultimately proved an exercise in futility.

At this game I have had the privilege to get to know your MO better - both as ally (as we were most of the game) and as enemy (albeit, too little at that). You are indeed an outstanding player, but more than anything, the impression I take of you from this game is of the master manipulator, the unseen puppet master :)
Well done :D I hope to enjoy more games with you in the future.

I for one surrender at this point. If the other player's wish to cont. I am willing to look for a sub for myself.
I also wish to thank all the players that subbed in this game!

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Utgard will be more than happy to call an end to this game and crown Bogarus the winner.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Meh I would fight on if others wanted, but if there is a general withdrawal, then I'll turn my thralls to the overlord Micah as playthings.

Not sure I like late game Ulm, those thralls are just plain annoying. :)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Thanks Wraith, this will be one less thing to worry about while I'm out of town. The Forge was mostly motivated by Utgard's E9 pretender/bless, and wanting to take it away from Amhazair, and that providing a guaranteed overwrite, as opposed to being proactive about boosting my own power...I did chip in 800 or more gems for it though, so I felt I could demand forging rights.

The only bit of "manipulation" that I feel I am guilty of was the ceasefire with Marignon when Utgard came into the war, but that was because I had my back to the wall between having Gath's remnants coming after me while I was barely holding off the biggest, nastiest nation in the game. I quite overestimated Utgard's strength (he should have been much better off than I was with national clammers and a better start) and that ended up taking him out of the running, which I hadn't envisioned. I figured that if I could hold off Marignon for 6 turns Utgard could too, especially knowing that help would be coming. Once Amhazair broke his seraph force on Utgard's cap it put me solidly into the lead, a position I wasn't about to give up. So yeah, a bit of guilt there.

Anyhow, more reports may be coming later, gotta get to my flight now!

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Heh, yeah, I kept saying my (Utgard's) position wasn't as strong as everyone thought, though admittedly you have to take such statements with a grain of salt. Few clams (I don't think any when I took over...not many at any rate) and I took an annoying large amount of casualties in my war with Vanhiem immediately prior with no chance to really reap any significant benefit from my associated gains.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Yeah, if there had been the population/supply to support them easier it would have been ok, but it was really nightmarish managing the snowballing cycle of vampires and thralls (on top of the hoard items).

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Nice, it's over. Good playing with all of you (on three separate occasions).

Good night from Vanheim. We held our VP til the end :)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

I'm going to officially turn down the lights on this game in the server. Bye bye artifacts, you lasted more then a year, probably made it the the guinness record of MP dom games :)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Not quite, the anniversary would have been on the 30th I believe.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

You can have the Dominions 3 record. Yarnspinners 2 in Dominions 2 ran almost 14 months.

Mistletoe is just about at month 10, with its blistering fast 6-day quick host. Graphs are off, so I have no idea if we're approaching the end of that one.

Dominions players must be among the most patient gamers in the known universe. Or stubborn.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Qwerty also lasted nearly a year. Not for everyone though:)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Thanks to Wraithlord for being an excellent host! Cheers all, see you in another games sometime.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

A short AAR for this game, given that the historic details are a bit lost to time by now:

In the Beginning, there was Bogarus, and Micah saw that it was NOT Good. And he spoke: "WTF am I supposed to do with this without an SC?" The Voice of QM responded: "Make a human SC." And Micah listened, and it was...good? Maybe? It was Good Enough. There, I think that sums it up.

And thus the God Micah strode through the planes and smote C'tis with righteous anger and artifact cheese, and it was Good. Then C'tis hid in their castle and spammed billions of shades and had nigh-invulnerable walls because they are not mindless and don't need to eat, and it sucked. But then they dom-died, and it was Good. Enough. For even with the lands of C'tis the nation of Bogarus was still fairly small, because Antilarium was Not Good.

Bogarus was then at peace, which the Great God Micah despises, for it is boring, and does not bend the world to His will. Thus Bogarus secured Caelum as an ally against the rampaging nation of Atlantis, and promptly got its *** kicked, for Bogarus is crappy and its mages feeble and blind, and cannot hit the broad side of an angakok. Bogarus was also too busy snatching up the remaining artifacts to concentrate on their war fully. Thus, peace was again secured, and Bogarus decided to utilize the dark side and pursue the path of Peace for a while longer. To this end Bogarus began spamming clams and blood stones as fast as it could, with the help of a couple of iron crafters from Caelum, for which we thank them. Bogarus also began researching the Wish spell, with which it could get more W gems to make MORE clams. Things were abuzz with excitement in Bogarus over the incredibly fun and complex strategy that their Great Leader had devised. There was also an equally-exciting Sickle farm operation, paid for by the Bogarus Farm Bill for Werewolves.

Quickly growing bored with his new strategy, despite its intricacies and brilliance, and becoming alarmed at the size of Atlantis, Micah began a massive propaganda campaign and secured allies for a new assault on the infidels. Utilizing their new magics and the forged Gate Stone Bogarus was able to secure the capital of their enemy, spreading their former provinces and wealth among the nations allied against the Enemy. And it was good.

Afterward, Bogarus did the same with the new Enemy of Gath, but was met with fierce resistance by Gath, who threw seemingly everything they had against the One True God, and then treachery on the part of Bogarus' Marignonian allies, who attacked before the war with Gath was concluded. It was truly Bogarus' darkest hour.

Bogarus sought allies, and the Agarthan people pledged their assistance. War was joined with Marignon, and the traitorous dogs of Agartha abandoned fair Bogarus to side with their enemy.

While desperately staving off the False Angels of Marignon, and assaulted constantly by a stream of Horrors, Bogarus was simultaneously attacked by the remnants of Gath. Bogarus, standing alone, was forced to beg for allies against the Marignonian threat, and was answered by the great nation of Utgard. Bogarus then promptly sold them out and signed a peace deal with Marignon so that we could deal with Gath and Agartha while Utgard's NAP ticked down, instead of being forced to fight on two fronts with no help for an additional six months. Bogarus was not proud of this maneuver, but felt that it had no choice. The nation of Utgard will forever be celebrated and honored for their sacrifice, so that the True God might ascend.

Bogarus was also pressed into making another difficult choice. The supply of virgins for Marignon's foul blood rites needed to be disrupted, and their gem supply with it. Bogarus was forced to call down Armageddon upon the world. Much devastation was wrought, but the goal was accomplished, Marignon's blood supply seemed crippled, and an opening was secured against them.

In the year-long Marignonian ceasefire Gath was quickly dispatched once and for all, and the nation of Agartha was quickly split between Ulm, Caelum and Bogarus since their treacherous leader was clearly unfit to lead their nation, and could not properly see to their defense.

Marignon grew desperate as their ceasefire drew to a close, and threw their host of angels at Utgard's capital, which were incinerated by magical duels at the start of the fight. Five seraphim lay dead outside of the walls of Utgard in full battle regalia, and Marignon's iron hold on the world slipped away with them. At the same time Bogarus strengthened their relations with Utgard by providing the gems to take the Forge of the Ancients away from Marignon, while Utgard supplied the services of their mighty earth mage leader, who was reckoned at the ninth level of expertise by the standard magical measures. As many gems as possible for a single spell were pushed into the enchantment, which was cast by a mighty mage, and the alliance felt secure in their mastery of the Forge.

At this point a great Madness descended on the leaders of the world, and the leaders of all nations save those of Bogarus and Caelum were struck down outright and were succeeded by their inexperienced heirs, while the leader of Caelum was driven slightly mad and abandoned his alliance with Micah, which Micah had treasured greatly. Seeing that the Pretenders had been laid low, Micah sought to ascend to his rightful place peacefully, but was prevented from doing so by the mad leaders of Ulm, Marignon, and Caelum, while the brave Utgard and Midgard leaders honored the rightful God and stuck by him, for which they shall be forever honored.

War was declared, years passed, and Bogarus rampaged through the sites of power in the world, conquering one after the other and driving the forces of her enemies before her, before finally the opposing leaders saw the futility of their opposition and yielded to Bogarus. Micah, weary and saddened by the additional bloodshed, was then finally allowed to rest.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ running ]
 

Huzzah! Artifacts has ended. My greatest and most terrible accomplishment in game hosting ever inflicted on the world of dom :)

Congrats, Micah!!

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ HOLY S**T MICAH WON!! ]
 

The most terrible thing about clamming is that the added income is hidden. If that were to change I'd have no problem with clamming.

Note, I have also eaten from the same honey. I had enough astral income to wish every turn and do more stuff like the occasional summoning of a golem. I have had an even larger earth income. BTW, more than anything else - had the other VPs not been so easy for you to take I'd have cont. fighting. That was what broke my spirit :) not the 1k earth gems lost on failed forge rewrite, nor fear of your armies.
As of artifacts I think I kinda like RAND games better.

I congratulate you (again?) for your victory. Hope to to meet you in a future game though next time I'll be less gullible (hopefully, perhaps as a thumb rule I'll double the gem income the score graphs show you have :D)

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ HOLY S**T MICAH WON!! ]
 

Brilliant the only time Agartha gets mentioned is under my leadership, the I get called incompetant! :P
Congradulations. I'd say I hope to fight you again someday, but I'm not nearly good enough to put up a decent showing.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ HOLY S**T MICAH WON!! ]
 

When the subs happened I had 110 clams and 110 blood stones, and added 3 stones and 6 clams/turn after that...I think I lost a few to Utgard stales and a few Earth Attacks, but you can still do the rough math. I was also spamming juggernauts at the end, so I was up to something like 80 temple checks a turn at dom-10, and adding 10-12 more each turn.

Wraith - If you weren't afraid of my armies why didn't you come fight them? I spent hours on my turn when our NAP broke scripting against a possible third party strike from you at one of Mari's VPs, but you didn't come. Seems you were a bit more scared than you let on, no? I was hoping the juggernauts would take you out before too long though, since actually having to fight you in the trenches wasn't very appealing.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ HOLY S**T MICAH WON!! ]
 

Oh, I stood no chance against those numbers.

I didn't come and fight your armies b/c I don't do what's expected of me when/where expected. I like to choose my battles and change my routines. Besides I had a significant amount of my armies busy killing Midgard. Last, when I did last turn I didn't think I'd end-up conceding on the next one :)

so - I didn't throw everything I had at you. I was just probing. Too little, too late, and anyway you had it all planned well and I stood no chance against you.

Feel free to give us more dirty details :D

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ HOLY S**T MICAH WON!! ]
 

Ooh! Look at that. Game's ended, and over a month ago now. (Gonna still necro the thread a bit to congratulate Micah. Hah!)

Your defense against my attack on you might very well be the best piece of strategy I've faced in my Dominions career thus far, and won you the game. Together with convincing Utgard to join you obviously. But without the stellar defence Utgard would just have been too late to help you, so I still maintain it is that defense that did it for you. :D

Although by the end (by which I mean the end for me, but not yet for you, obviously) actually playing the turns had become a nightmare, I still had great fun on a tactical/stragic level. Pitting my wits against the best the Dominions community had to offer certainly proved a serious challenge and I look forward to giving it another go at some time in the future. Maybe. Someday. If I can work up the courage. Or get me a slave monkey to actually do all the MM stuff while I ponderously ponder deep thoughts...

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ HOLY S**T MICAH WON!! ]
 

No gem generators is the new standard for vet games, so hopefully that will make future games a little more pleasant MM wise.

Re: The Artifacts Game - [ HOLY S**T MICAH WON!! ]
 

Yeah, just been browsing through some threads to get a tiny little bit upper to date, and saw this mentioned. Have to say I have no objoctions to that. (Except that it's a pitty to loose the potential E boost from blood stones. Can't have everything though, I guess.)