Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Movement doesn't care that much about province alliance.

And, if you feel like running around my mostly worthless provinces with that kind of armies, just feel free. :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I know. Like I said, I expected him to flee, and then the reinforcements to kill my pretender.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Alright, will do. Thanks for the permission.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

First of all, I thought we were adding 8hours to the hosting cycle? (these hours did not appear).

Secondly, was this the week atul was taking off or was that next week?

Finally in the battle replay I watched: the adon which did not have a bonus reinvigoration item was the only adon to die period, and additionally in that battle replay he died for real... In the battle replay he gained the affliction weakened... however on my turn he is alive with the affliction never healing wound... seems as if my battle replay was bugged.

Although all of my raise dead spammers still died, ruining any chance I had of staying alive (they were intended for use against c'tis as you apparently correctly predicted).

Good work :)

In order for a unit with phx pyre to "die" he must have 100fatigue or higher when he "dies" if you want to learn how this works just create a test game in which you use the phoenix pretender in cbm as it automatically has phx pyre in effect at all times.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

The 8 hours were indeed added. Hosting was at 10:35 GMT on Wednesday, now currently 18:35 GMT Wednesday.

I believe atul will be taking off at the end of this week but we will have to hear from him regarding the exact date.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I'll be away from early sunday morning (23th) to late thursday evening (27th), dunno the exact time I'll be able to do my turn as on friday it's back to work.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Hey Marignon, stop waiting until the last minute to do your turn! Some of us need to (or at least should) go to bed, and don't like having to stay up so long! :D

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

with the hosting cycle as long as it is you could just go to bed early and still have 2days to do your turn after waking up :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Marignon's better hurry. Only 25 minutes left before hosting. Perhaps he needs a delay?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

the vet forum hasn't really had anyone but me posting in it for the past week... maybe he does need a delay... be nice if we could get one since in the past they've been granted in situations like this

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Would have granted it, but was unavailable.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I'm pretty sure TheDemon got his turn in. This is not the first time he's waited until the last moment to submit. It seems to be part of his 'strategy'? :p

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

If you knew how many hours thedemon puts into his turns, you'd know that his strategy is just to work as hard as he can on every turn.

I wouldn't disparage him for that. Additionally, I'd be willing to bet that no one has spent more time on nvv3 than him.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I don't think TwoBits intended to disparage TheDemon in any way. I try not to make a habit of speaking for others, but I strongly believe that all of the noob team-members have a deep respect and appreciation for the effort and time the Vets have invested into this game.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

If we can get this turn in a bit early, atul may be able to submit his next turn (and have a good amount of time to do so) before he goes. Just a suggestion of course.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Sorry for butting in, since I am dead, but I think the game seems to be over. Posting on the vet board is almost completely over. I think it is more of a me vs. them game right now, and not a cooperative MP game, for the Vets.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

As far as I know our team has entirely stopped communicating with eachother as of like a week ago.

but then again atul and thedemon could just discuss things privately as they constitute 97% of the team now :) I wouldn't know about that.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Do the newbs have a significant advantage?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Not much to discuss. Its clear who is responsible for what fronts, we aren't really raiding much, so not much to coordinate. When someone else on my team needs to know something I'm doing, I let them know.

As for significant advantage, they have a bigger advantage than they started with.:confused:

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Yeah, the noob team's resource advantage just keeps growing and growing as the turns go by. Occasionally there is a minor resurgence, but then it is quickly squashed. Overall per turn incomes have been even more skewed than my reports have been letting on for some time now. Unless they have a significant undocumented gem income, they are very, very far behind. The question at this point is, can atul and thedemon win simply by virtue of being better at the late game than the noobs. At this point it is clear that the few remaining other vets are on their way out, so the noobs control the vast majority of the land.

However no one has been able to put anything even resembling a dent in atul yet. The only thing he's lost so far is his god, and if we're being fair here, I don't know that the noobs could have killed it without it autorouting and dying due to the turn limit. He has just run into his first significant noob nation though, and seems to be slowing down a bit. We'll have to see how things go over the next few turns.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I was curious about the vets strategy on this.

Obviously, research doesn't transfer between partners, with only limited migration - forge buddy, remote spells etc. So I'm curious if the vets tried a lead researcher - perhaps a bogarus or ea arco - who wasn't expected to to militarily dominate - but was expected to provide globals, magic items, etc.

Interesting challenge being outnumbered 2:1.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Yeah, no disparagement intended :) I'd just noticed that he sometimes liked to wait until everyone else had submitted their turns, and figured he was doing some last minute coordinating or something. You can take your time, TheDemon, and ignore me when I'm whining for the turn :D

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

We couldn't afford the luxury. All of us poured it on research early, except Ermor and Ashdod. I think Baalz had a Great Sage that did more than 40 RP a turn. The general idea is early army vs army is all about who has more stuff. So we need to reach the early-mid game evocations buffs summons and items first and use them to devastating effect on whatever armies are being thrown around.

I think our main miscalculation was that while army recruitment scales up significantly with the +150% gold/resources, mage recruitment scales up more slowly and spells don't scale up at all. So for example if I was spamming Thunder Strike, I would have to spam it 50% more times than in a regular game. A thug would have to kill 50% more guys than in a regular game. All the mid-game strategies need to be re-evaluated in terms of this.

I think this is why atul is doing so well, he's wielding armies and using buffs. Those DO scale up 50%. Prison of Fire spam or communions however, do not.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I've actually enjoyed the 150% gold/resources because I like army play a lot more than random totally uber guys running around. That said, i'm starting to run into battleground size limitations with my main army (I really want to spread out more!). But still, legions of dai-bakemono with mage support has been much more satisfying to me than making some uber-thugs or SCs to take down Ashdod's giants. (Also, i think 150%g/r is enough that Ashdod actually got to field things that look like armies of giants rather than just a few uber guys with retinues).

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

You are exactly correct demon. Money changes the early balance between mages and armies. (Recruitment limit of 1/castle for example).

Also it puts a premium on fast out of the gate expanders - like mictlan, mercenaries...

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

It's fun all right. My concern is that it isn't "realistic", as in you won't find any other games that play this way. If the point is to teach you, well I know you've learned plenty, but standard settings would have taught counters better. When all you're doing is slamming big armies into big armies, the guy with the biggest army wins. Most of the time you can't change the size of your army in the time you have between scouting an attacking force and defending against it. I'm of the opinion that it's fortunate that in Dominions, the right spell picks and equipment and thug scripts and so forth has an effect much larger than the size of the army. In the end, the size of the army supporting those picks is a relatively minor factor. For example, when you (Shinu I presume) wiped Ashdod's army/thugs with Ice Pebble Staffs, you could have done that backed by an army half the size.

What these settings do is scale back the effect of these counters. It's foreign to me, and perhaps to some of the rest of the vets, because it doesn't resemble the game I'm used to playing. In a sense, many of you noobs have a big experience advantage on me here. Whether it makes for a good game or not, I'm not going to judge.

Anyway, the vets are used to my monologues on IRC, but you guys aren't, and I've rambled on long enough.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I still had problems with Ashdod's sacreds. And Namad threw me for a loop the first time he kept everyone at the back with guard commander to stay out of range of my rusting mist. So i'm definitely learning some things. And magic was still essential to beating Ashdod's giants, as witnessed by my first few losses against his army.

If anything, I'd say Team play, while interesting, is the worst for learning. I mean, as Shinuyama its not standard to be able to call in teleporting mage-duel teams to wipe annoying astral thugs.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

qm taught me the guard commander move about a year and a half ago or so :)

it's brilliant. although only useful in small doses.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Okay, reading what I wrote the following comes off as too negative, that's not meant so badly. I'm just not able to rephrase. A game nice to have, and as the situation currently stand noobs can either learn new tricks or kill me by exhaustion (which isn't fun). :p

You mean Ulm? I could march onto his capital with my closest army as it is and there isn't anything he's currently fielding against me that could stop me. I'm not that hot on rushing though as all the castles take a while to breach, and Ulm's troops don't take kindly to raiders.

I don't have that much trouble with 150% everything as I played Midgård in Preponderance with similar settings. Though I agree with TheDemon, this game has little resemblance to usual games. The charm of Dominions (according to my preferences) is finding solutions to changing problems with limited resources. Not just flooding people with More Of The Same.

As to this game being too much Team game, I must disagree. The setup made this into a series of 2-against-1s with some weak interaction. For an actual team game the placement should've been so that there would be at least some chance to cover your teammate. But, with the demands of 1/2 distribution and that every noob gets a straight route to fight that was pretty much impossible.

And, the map is a bit big to conquer on my own and so on, so I might stop complaining. ;)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Well, this game has been interesting to say the least. It isn't over yet, of course.

another thing I think might be fun for a teaching type game, if any vets were at all interested and not totally burned out by the noob v vet series, would be to have multiple teams of one vet and like 2 noob flunkies. That way, the odds wouldn't be so stacked against the vets - it would be a completely fair math up, hopefully - and each noob would be able to learn directly from a vet on his team, as well as the ones they were fighting. In fact, I may try to start a game like this. But not until this one is concluded.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Atul, Back a whole bunch of turns ago you were repeatedly attacking me with single commanders. Now you are attacking an empty province with a single commander again. I assume there has to be a reason for it, but I can't for the life of me figure out what its gaining you.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

That idea has been brought up before and could prove interesting. Though I always wondered whether such a game would be more properly referred to as Noobs and Vets. I would certainly give my endorsement to any follow up noobs vs vets game type game. Matching up noobs and vets is an extremely difficult balancing act as there are so many variables both quantifiable and unquantifiable. My hopes and prayers go with anyone else who wishes to try.

All of us involved have put a great deal of thought and preparation into every game in the series (if you know me, you know I wouldn't have it any other way), including almost a month for this last one before we even got started.

While I can't speak for all the noobs, this game has certainly added to the knowledge I picked up from the vets in the previous two games. Hopefully, the focus on learning and spirit of teamwork will continue for as long as feasible in this game and in any future iterations.

Game note: With luck we should be able to get one more turn in before having to institute a delay, unless the vets have found a suitable sub for atul.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Oh, there's this bug that makes commanders drop their troops. Happens every now and then and it's been plaquing me for some time. That's the reason for current mishap.

Previously, those scouting attacks were just in case you'd bring in a new army, so I'd know your composition in advance before you would be attacking me.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Tell Machaka to break siege before his guys all die from disease. This particular fort is really easy to starve, as I discovered earlier.

I think Lingchih is subbing for Atul. Not 100% sure.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Machaka staled last turn. Once again proving that the noobs are not immune to staling.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Ahh, Guess I'm lucky, never having had that bug happen to me.

And I suppose the other makes sense. it just confused me that you were sitting on my unprotected border sending one commander at a time at it, when you had an army that could have easily taken the province.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

The troops get dropped at the end of the host so if you pay attention you can see that they don't have a leader. But guess I wasn't paying attention.

As to Ulm being unable to stop my closest army, guess that was a bit of a boast. But, I still consider me handing out 4 times the casualties I got when my troops were outnumbered 3 to 1 a pretty decisive show of who's in the receiving end.

Is Ling subbing for me? I'd think the current turn would be the last one I have time for.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I think maybe atul should talk to ling sometime ;) otherwise I'd just assume we're on delay...


really theres only two players left on the noob team I dunno if theres any reason not to wait for him...

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

atul's first point was a joke. Scouting is the correct answer.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Actually, wouldn't be that sure. Most units droppings to date have been playing Marverni, check some strat thread about them and see people complaining about the behaviour.

Scouting is a real answer but it doesn't explain those troops dropping away.

Oh, and about that troop concentration earlier on, they were supposed to go to Jotun front but someone Arrowed the Van that was supposed to sail them over. They were never intended to go at Arco lands.

And as to Ling, the last thing I heard was him saying he'd rather not but can if no other solution presents itself. I'm not that sure I want to burden him if that's how he feels.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Never encountered that. Perhaps there're some bugs in this game that I still don't know:). Pitiful bug, if so.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Yeah we'll just put it on hold.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Cool. Atul and I never even talked about the turns, so it would be best if I stayed out. I just offered in case everyone was opposed to a delay.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Well in that case, sorry for the delay and thanks for your patience. Airport calls in few hours, my current turn is in but next one will be after Thursday.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Noob team news: Lumen and viccio have been switched back to their respective nations effective turn 33.

Game updates:

The current turn (32) has been delayed 4 hours to allow Arco (Melnorj) a little extra time to get the turn in. Hopefully will not be needed.

A 72 hour delay will be instituted effective turn 33 to cover atul's absence bringing the next hosting time to sometime on Saturday. If more time is needed, just let us know.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I am worried too many people have gotten too content... not enough .2h are coming in... we might need another emergency day?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

Heh. :) I can understand in atul's case, but you'd think 5 days oughta be enough for most everyone else. I'll monitor the situation and check again before hosting. I know a few players like to wait till the last moment anyway.

Noob team news:

Iainuki has taken over the helm of Caelum effective turn 33.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

The current turn (33) has been postponed another 24 hours as we are still waiting for turn files from 5 players. Let's get those turns in.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

I've sent in my turn, thanks for the patience.

Usually it seems many people don't send in their turns before getting that reminder from Llamaserver. Very human of them.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Let's get it on!
 

We're waiting for Arco and Machaka now. Neither player has posted anything at the Noob forum for the last several days. Maybe they thought Atul was going to be gone through the weekend?