Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Beware Caacrinolaas!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The backup shows 16 turn files. That would have triggered the hosting.


Actually it should be much more correct since I finally got all of it (web, reminder timer, forced hosting, etc) running on the same single time setting. A file in the directory with just the number of hours between hostings and nothing else.

I can only check whats running now. There are two timer jobs running which were created by the last hosting.
107 Sat Dec 19 16:20:00 2009 a nav
108 Sat Dec 19 07:20:00 2009 a nav
One will run the "reminders" script to send out emails to anyone who hasnt turned in a turn. And the other will run hosting based on the xx-hours setting (with a check to make sure the ftherlnd file is older than xx-hours to avoid clashing with quick-host). It seems ot match the webpage.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Gandalf, Sept

Please see my pm regarding this matter.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Chris, see my PM response. There did not appear to have been any early hosting server errors from what I could tell on my end.

Pyg, have you been hitting the sauce?

"Beware Caacrinolaas!" :confused::rolleyes:

It looks like we had 3 or so responses to the holiday delay options. I am going to edit the 3 options I mentioned as option 1 and option 3 were probably too extreme. If a delay or slowdown is desired by the majority of players over the holidays we'll likely do one of two things:

The question is when to begin and how long should it run so if we take Ling's suggestion about the customary year end period:

A. We can shut off the timer from December 24 - January 2nd. What scares me about this idea, while it sounds nice, is there is the possibility that no turns get processed at all if everyone doesn't submit. That's 9 or 10 days.

B. We can implement a temporary 72 hour (3 day) or 96 hour (4 day) hosting interval to cover the same period. This ensures that we get in at least 2 if not more turns over the holiday. If there is going to be a delay this would probably be my personal preference.

So I think I'll put a poll up on our forums asking two questions: 1, whether to institute a delay or slowdown in the first place, and 2 asking which of these 2 or 3 options people prefer. Then I'll put it to Gandalf as far as which may be easier for him to implement. This will give us something to work with in the meantime anyway.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

DrP and Gandalf, yes that's what I was hinting at regarding the AI. Take a single player game on a single computer. The AI (comp) "knows" every action you take, every mouse click, every keyboard press. When the turn is processed it's gotta "know" your orders as a matter of course in order to process the turn. As Gandalf indicated, one of the challenge I'd guess in programming AI player routines is in dumbing down the AI (comp) enough by filtering out info it already has to simulate what an actual human player might know.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Was there a delay request? Can they be made publicly, please?
I stayed up till 2 getting a turn in if I had known there was a 10 hour delay I would have gone to bed.

If there wasn't a delay requst things are definitely screwed up as there was only 6 hours when I went to bed.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I was checking the web page frequently yesterday (as per our conversation) and saw no problem. I even posted the hosting time to this forum. I dont see a change and certainly didnt do one.

What browser are you using? If there is a lag for some reason anywhere along the line between your machine and mine, some browsers will pull up a cached image without telling you. Sometimes you have to hit the refresh button to get the latest copy.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Gandalf, over most of yesterday.. I followed this web page and watched it count down as I was in discussions with grudge and squirrel.

I am familiar with cache and cookie clearing - as well as refreshing (and, in point of fact I empty all internet files on exit anyway).

When it got to 6 hours, I went to bed (at 2:00 am ish EST). When I got up in the morning it was up to 10 hours. I usually use IE8.0; but firefox is available as well.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Chris, I've not received any explicit requests for delays for the current or previous turn nor have I noticed anything amiss with the server or host, if there was something though, Gandalf would probably know about it. Wish I knew more.

Here's what I do know:

Get ye turns in! The new mantra is turn 30 by Xmas. :up:

There's two polls on our team forums and I want more votes! :up:

Don't let apathy decide things for you. :up:

I need 13 more votes on the holiday question. :up:

I need 8 more votes on the 48/56 host question. :up:

Thank you. :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I have been following this and your right, apathy is NOT the way to decide when to take the holiday break unless you just don't have anything to do but play this game.

Because of the coming arrivals of relatives, I will complete any and all turns that I would receive by Weds 12/23/09.

I could also complete 1 turn received on Monday 12/28/09 with a liberal hosting time and another received Thursday 12/31/09 agian with a liberal hosting time as relatives will be starting their departures.

And starting Sunday 1/3/10 I will be ready to receive another turn and be back on whatever schedule we have decided on.

For me this isn't a poll, I spend most of my home time (as do others), working at me desk OR messing around with the computer (this include turns, turns, turns).

My wife takes this very well and even listens to my tales of woe about this and other games. But Christmas is HER time to plan the family schedule, and as I just got married after a 28 year hiatis I think its fair that once a year (great guy huh!!)she set the schedule.

So for me this isn't a poll, this is how I will divvy up my time until 1/03/10 (But ya know I MIGHT be able to sneak down and get ONE more turn in while she is not looking if need be!!)

As far as the new hosting will go after that I abstain and will go with the majority.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I'd like to just go no schedule, quickhosting only through 1/3

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I voted delay, shut off the hosting timer to do our best to accommodate people's schedules. That said, if people get turns in anyway it won't bother me in the slightest. I don't have any holiday traveling to do, so I am going to just be sitting around waiting for you slowpokes to get your turns in.

I would like to reach turn 30 by christmas also, but I am beginning to think that's unlikely :(

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Everyone, make your needs/desires heard via the forum poll if you have not already. I'd like to cover the whole period (12/24-1/02) inclusive using one of those options decided by majority if we can. Everyone gets a say. :)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I really don't think this is a vote issue. You have a number of players already indicating they have travel plans and will not be available.

Sure, you could let them stale -but it kind of ruins the whole point about playing players. Since you have 3+ players already saying they can't do it - just quikhost it and be done with it.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

For some it may not be and I do understand believe me. We've got two players (Illuminated and Grudge) so far indicating sporadic internet access for the period. I've provided options that cover the whole spectrum of needs/desires/wishes as best I could. I will do my best to honor whatever is decided via the polls. If everyone casts their vote, what your saying will bare itself out anyway. ;)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Suppose 8 people vote to keep going on a usual schedule. Are you really going to keep the game going when 5 people say they can't (won't) play?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Let me ask you this by contrast, suppose 14 players vote against any delays, is it really fair to hold up the game for 2 players?

Anyway I don't think either of these situations are likely to happen. I am confident people will vote in the best interests of everyone taking into account the holiday and the needs of others as well. 96 hour turns or timer off will accomodate almost everyone fairly well over the holidays, and there is the 72 hour middle ground as well, so I am not worried about it really.

I am simply asking people to speak up and let their voices be heard in the forum and to use that venue to inform me of their plans/desires for both poll questions. I certainly don't want anyone making up anyone else's mind for them.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

[quote=Septimius Severus;722711Let me ask you this by contrast, suppose 14 players vote against any delays, is it really fair to hold up the game for 2 players? [/QUOTE]

Yes.

Since 'liberal delays' was stated at the outset and its the norm to break for major holidays, yes, I have no problem with you just saying game is quickhost only.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I was going to jump in, but ....

Here's my view. Why on earth do we need anything fancy? Do like everyother game and turn off the timer for Christmas.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Is every other game on this forum turning off the timer for the entire period from Dec 24th through January 2nd?

From what I can recall Llamaserver hosted games cannot turn off the actual hosting timer from the admin page (without special instructions to Llamabeast anyway), as far as I am aware they can shut off quickhost, postpose hosting or just increase the hosting interval. There is no option for removing the hosting timer completely, which we can do via Gandalf's server with his direct involvement. Essentially we'd be running only on quickhost but with no actual turn timer to ensure that hosting takes place, if option 2 wins out. That is all I am saying.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Originally, I was going to turn off the timer for 3 days over Christmas and 2 days over New Years, but frankly that might be alot of work for Gandalf so I figured we'd just let people choose an option and go with it for the whole period. Less work that way. If you'd prefer I stick with that original plan, that can be done as well.

Look, all I am saying is cast your votes. Lets hear what everyone thinks. To answer Chris' question, in the unlikely event the vote should come to 8 to 5 in favor of remaining on schedule, I would make a judgement call (since finding 5 subs might be quite difficult) and likely choose the 72 hour option. That way I give the majority what they want, but also give the 5 extra time to get their turns in. Everyone's happy.

I must say, I have to tip my hat to Chris. He's got the energy of a noob, the courage of Algae Nymph, and the wisdom of the good doctor. What gumption! What moxy! What gaul! Chris, I must have you for co-admin in game 2. And I encourage you all to keep the free flow of ideas and debate going (keeps our thread on top) :).

So let me clarify for everyone before you make your decisions (some already have). When I speak of turning off the hosting timer that means we will be effectively running on quickhost/fasthost only. In other words, the game will only host if everyone get's their turns in. It is NOT the same as turning off quickhost/fasthost which only means that hosting will proceed exactly at 48 or 56 hours, or whatever the interval is. Regardless of how fast turns come in. I apologize if anyway has been confused over my wording. I personally will be fine with any of the 4 options, though I lean toward the 72 hour interval over the entire holiday period mentioned to ensure at least some turns get in. But that is just me.:D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Can I get a delay for the next turn (about 10h)? I have some computer problems and I probably won't get around to fix them before tomorrow evening.

Also this will be the last day that I can play a turn, so however you decide do it quick please. I'm fine with a sub as I said, but once I'm gone, I'm gone, that is if the snowstorm doesn't stop me.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Illuminated, see my PM, I am not sure whether you mean the current turn or 'next turn' like you said. If you are the only one leaving this early, you'll need a sub.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Pretty sure he means this turn.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Absolutly ****ing yes!!!

This god damn game took two ****ing months to even start. Who gives a flying **** about two or six or twenty days delay? Mostly because it took you that long to learn what hosting required and to fart around figuring out how AI's work.

I can't believe we need a goddamn poll to figure out that people might want a break a Christmas.

Most of us play more than one game Sept. And we don't test our damn strategies in a team game.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Can we turn off quick host for this turn? One of my teammates submitted an erroneous turn, and I'd like to make sure he has time to correct it (ie., that the game doesn't quick host on him).


(Asked with 12 hours till hosting).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The point is Maerlande, this is your game, it is Viccio's game, it belongs to all the players, to everyone who waited 2 months to play, to everyone who is playing now. It can be handled several ways, I want to make sure everyone knows what the options are and has a chance to decide. This is not a dictatorship, nor an oligarchy!

If you have issues with the way I run my games or have done so in the past that is your right, but please don't tell everyone else what they must or must not do, especially myself. And players, don't let "custom", one or two other players, or anyone else tell you how the game should proceed or be run.

In reality, as I've stated, the question is not really whether a break is implemented but how it can be done. I've provided the option for continuing on schedule to attempt to be fair to all players, but as I stated I am confident that players will vote for a delay in some form or other. Llamaserver based games cannot shut off the hosting timer from the admin page, so to tell people that everyone is doing that is simply incorrect. Our game is a bit unique due to the hosting platform in that regard.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Chris, I've received your request to shut off the quickhost this turn. I hadn't received a response to my PM attempting to clarify Illuminated's request that I sent to DrP and Illum. In the absence of a clarification, I am asking Gandalf for a 10 hour delay on the current turn, so your player should have plenty of time to resubmit.

I will be shutting down the polls tommorow. Please get your vote in if you have not already done so on the 2 questions at hand.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Naw, it's not my game. I want out. Fast!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The Mysterios need alternates to step forward.

We are looking for Tam-Lin and Some1Lost if still willing to take the place of us tired old farts.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Our team is good to go: host when ready Gridley!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

</Lurks> No, all you have to do is set the hosting interval wide enough to cover the holiday break (240 hours or something like that), and/or postpone the current turn by a similar amount of time... You can't turn off the timer directly, but that's not necessary.

The only time you'd want to turn off quickhost is if you're going with a *strict* hosting schedule where deadlines are always on the same hour... and even then, it'd be better to let the turns host as soon as possible and manually push back the deadline to the hosting hour. I can't really see the point of fixed deadlines like that if hosting is automated, though (it's another story if you're hosting by hand).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Ok, things are fixed, no delay needed.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I can understand the request for turning off Quick Host. If a person is having trouble sending in a good file (corrupt, or serial number conflict, or bad turn number) they dont want the game to "see" that it has enough .2h files and host until they manage to send in a good file.

But PLEASE people be clear which one you mean. There are 2 possible host events. The Quick Host because all of the turns are in, and the forced host because the timer has run out. If you want to turn-off the Quick Host then do not word it something like "I want a 10 hour extension" since that will only add 10 hours to the forced-host timer.

For holidays, its usually only important to change the force-host. That way setting it to a long time period will not get in the way of hosting anyway if everyone gets their turns in.

But as always it boils down to 2 things. How many people does it take to hold up everyone else. And then the final decision I receive from the person running the game. (it does no good to discuss your votes with me in PM because I dont decide it)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Alneyan, is quite correct and bears out what I said, that Llamaserver based games can postpone, or change the hosting interval but cannot shut off the timer directly. We are however talking about shutting off the hosting timer completely via Gandalf's server, as we did over thanksgiving. The same effect can be acheived as Alneyan stated, on Llamaserver or indeed on Gandalf's server by making a 240 hour (10 day) hosting interval or postpoing by that amount of time.

Considering the period in question will run from November 24 to December 2 inclusive, that is 10 days where the server will not host a single turn unless every single .2h file is in. We could go the entire time without anything happening at all.

Considering the length of time involved, that is why I thought it best that everyone should have a say and provide the alternate options of 72 hour and 96 hour hosts. I have always strived to be as democratic and fair as I could (hence the endless polls), I would make the same decision if the request came up at any time of year regardless of whether the holiday be Christmas, New Years, Ramadan, Hanukkah, or any other.

Maerlande, or anyone else, I am sorry if you feel that I have not been sympathetic to the every individual need as best I could. Maerlande is a good player who keeps everyone up-to-date on his activities on the team forums (if you've played team games you know that is very important) every turn. It would be a shame to loose him or anyone over this. And I urge him and anyone else not to act rashly. Personally, I have put too much time and effort in to this game to throw it away over this. But that is just me.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

We have an extra 10 hours to play around with since I had instituted a delay on Illuminated's behalf. He's now back, and we are waiting only for Sauromatia and T'C. By the gods, I think if we can get this turn in fairly soon, we shall reach turn 30 by Christmas! :D I will post the poll results shortly. I was planning on the holiday delay period to run from midnight on 12/23 to midnight on 01/02 (more likely as close as Gandalf can get to it).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Hi. Septimus Severus sent me a message because maybe you could need a sub for some nations. I'm very interested and if you need someone you can count on me.

I'm a very serious player and won't let you down. I'm administrating some Dominions' games in Llamasever and i'm playing other games here and there so i don't want to give you any problems because i know how annoying is having players who dissapear without warning (stales, great delays in answering the e-mails or the turns, etc) ;)

Cheers.

Agus aka Haplo.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Oh ye foolish blessed ones. Have you fallen so far as to give yourselves unto slavery under the vile ACHOO? You cannot begin to imagine the suffering this act of cowardice shall be rewarded with. As you experience the terror and despair that only Easy Slay can deliver, know that you die as dogs for your overlords in the north.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Agusti, you're account has been activated on our team forums, see my PM. We welcome any and all new players, especially those who are willing to take over nations.

The consensus on the 48/56 hour question was in favor of going to 56 hours at turn 31. With 10 of 16 votes received. I'll be posting another poll on hosting intervals as we near turn 40, next time with 3 options: Reverting to 48, remaining at 56, or moving on to 64.

The consensus on the holiday delay was in favor of shutting off the hosting timer for the entire period. 1 vote for remaining on schedule, and 2 votes for going with a 72 hour host. 10 of 16 votes received.

I am informing Gandalf with the results of the polls and instructing him to shut off the hosting timer at or around midnight on 12/23 and to restart the timer at or around midnight on 1/02 (technically 1/03). I think we can get this last turn in and hopefully 1 or 2, over the holiday period. If anyone is going to be utilizing a sub(s) or alternates and needs to change a player's e-mail address to receive new turns, please notify me.

I want to thank everyone who participated in the voting. I also want to thank anyone who may be leaving our game for participating in the game. They say this is the season for forgiving and forgetting, I wish this for all of us going forward and I personally will always be glad to play alongside of anyone at anytime. ;)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Lingchih withdraws from advisor position. If anyone want more details on the decision, there is a post on the Mysterious board.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

uh, woh?

Sort of relevantly, ACGHHS seems to be short a player, if anyone wants to run Pangaea.

Fair warning, its not a terrible situation to learn some good practices, but the team strategy is fairly unified, so you don't really make decisions on your own - you engage in the team discussion and we try to arrive at the best strategy together.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I had some move orders (army attacking, all 3 commanders) fail to happen last turn. Not a major issue right now, but if it continues to happen it will be annoying.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I have been noticing that bug an awful lot lately. It pretty much happens in all of my games sooner or later. Luckily I haven't had it happen in this game yet. Not that I've been having to do a whole lot of fighting either.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Taken from the original post.

I object strenuously to the administration's efforts to fuddle up the hosting requirements.

I clearly joined this game based upon the above policy from the original post.

Septimius,
Your inability to meet your original promises for this game has reached the point where the game is falling apart. You must figure out if this is a game that you admin or your private sandbox that you really hope folks will come hang out in.

Your own team has now lost two members due solely to your poor performance as a player and abuse of power as admin. Threatening your teammates as admin is completely inappropriate. You brought up my bad language from this thread into our team discussion and I refuse to leave it there. If you want to have an argument about the administration it's going to be public.

Your team's advisor has resigned. Partly over differences of opinion with you.

You effectively threatened to stale people over the Christmas Holidays. That is incredible abuse of power.

I recommend you resign as admin of this game. You are incapable of wearing both hats.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Now all my games are mired in drama :(

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Alright, who pulled the drama tag?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Maerlande, I don't see what in the above thread snipet you have quoted I have gone back on. I say the delay policy is liberal and then go on to explain regarding longer delays over 48 hrs saying that alternates/subs should be utilized for long delays.

No one is forcing anyone to stale, but for a period of 10 days in which the hosting timer is completely shut-off I think everyone who is in the game should have a say as to how they want to proceed. I suspect that since many games are Llamaserver based on this forum, they are either voting for 72 hour hosting intervals, 96 hour hosting intervals, or even longer. Some may not be doing so at all. So I wanted everyone playing to have a choice between the various options, since the game belongs to everyone in it ultimately.

I don't mind you continuing this debate here, I would always wish a free flow of ideas, and never want anyone to feel bullied into doing anything by anyone. I think everyone should think for themselves. But please if you do, lets try to refrain from semi-profanities and keep as things as civil as we can. I am not the moderator of these forums, but if you abuse, insult, engage in name calling, use foul language, I will certainly voice a complaint with the moderators.

We've all of us made mistakes, including myself as admin, it is a learning process and this is my fourth team game admining so I am undoubdetly learning as I go as well. I generally do not hold grudges and I would encourage all of us to not let schisms develop between each other. CBM or non-CBM, Llamaserver or non-Llamaserver, IRC or non-IRC participant, vet or noob. I would happily play alongside of you or Ling, or anyone else regardless of past disputes.

As Ling and many others can attest to, team games (especially large ones) not only require lots of time and communication, they are extremely draining as well, emotionally, physcially, and mentally. Doing two in a row is rough. And considering I am on my fourth game, I may well be losing my mind! :D :eek:

Because of our debates and discussions though, I have grown to respect Chris, DrP, and everyone else even more so, and I wish going forward, especially during the holiday that we all forget the past and commit to finishing the game and doing what we can to ensure everyone has a good time. That is what I play for ultimately (which may make me a bad team player), since for me, it is about just having fun and learning, and not an obsession with winning at any cost.

That said, let me take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy holiday and best of fortune in the new year. :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

rdonj: The drama should end quickly. It looks like an alternate has been found for me which should end my tirade. I won't continue an argument about a game that is no longer my concern.

Sept:
I'm deeply sorry you don't understand. I'm not going to try any more.

In regards to your threats to call the mods on me, don't bother. I'm reporting my own post to them. Then I will no longer have to care about your threats.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Done. I reported myself.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Not sure why that needed reporting. It was all asterized!