Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

Comparing only the cost of the lost troops isn't really meaningful, because it doesn't scale.
Overwhelming force often results in a victory with few losses. If Mictlan takes 50 barbarians with 20 jaguar warriors, only losing 2, that doesn't mean that 2 jaguar warriors = 50 barbarians.

You had critical mass against him and won with few losses, but a small change in either side could lead to a completely different outcome.

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

Thanks! I didn't look at it that way. I see what you mean.

The new math is:

Marverni:
250 @ 13 gold = 3750 gold (if you want to include 30PD @ 465 gold: 4215 gold)

Hinnom:
30 @ 75 gold + 30 @ 30 gold = 3150 gold

But Marverni still crushed Hinnom later with Gifts from Heaven and teleporting Druids spawning Earth Elementals. :)

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

Marverni alive so long? It must be some really bad play from its neighbours. And where are Hinnom mages? His research must be far superior to Marvernis at that point. Surprise kill of one obsolete army with mages means nothing.

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

It doesn't take all that long to get to Thau 1/Alt 1/Evo 5. Especially if you start next to some farmland and build a lot of druids and have decent scales. I used:

Wyrm (Body 269, 160 hits)
No magic
Dominion 10
Scales: Order 3 Productivity 2 Cold 3 Growth 1 Misfortune 2 Magic 1
Awake

The Wrym allows rapid expansion from turn 1, and also will block chariots while you're waiting for Conj 5 for elementals.

Sure, Marverni needs to build a fort+lab+temple to recruit more druids, but all forts are 800, 3 turns and temples are only 200.

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

I need to do some more research but from what I can tell so far, I'd say that relative to other nations in their era, Ashdod completely dominates MA nations and is more unbalanced relative to the landscape than Hinnom.

Ashdod's Anakites are berserking, sacred, FR75, with 50HP, high MR (15) high protection (14), decent combat stats for giants (att 12/ Def 15) and not outrageously expensive at 125 gold (Vans cost 90 gold by comparison), especially given the nation has Heat +2 preference meaning most build will be Heat +3 for an extra 120 points. Since they have innate berserking, no need to go N9 but you can settle for a cheaper N bless for solid regeneration. With the typical E9 bless these guys are monstrous to stop.

They will tear through almost anything the MA nations can throw at them. Hydras will drop like flies. Woodsmen have lower MR, lower combat stats, not naturally berserking, lower protection, etc.

Ashdod: Strong PD - national summons...

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

How are you using Ashod. Ashod works well with a E10N6 bless, but the central focus is really the Adon's and there SC abilities (with access to strong unique summons, death summons, and wish) and not the Anakites. But I do agree that Ashod is a nation that should be looked at now that Hinnom has been nerfed.

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

I am not playing them (actually I am fighting them), or trying to discuss strategy, just making the point that I think Ashdod is far out of balance with other MA nations.

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

Sorry about that :doh:. I agree that Ashod should be balanced, luckily that will be next on the agenda now that Hinnom has been nerfed.

Re: No more MP for Hinnom?
 

Agree on that E10N6 for Ashdod. (E10 is rarely useful but in Ashdod's case it's the difference between Enc 1 and Enc 0 for most of their troops.) That bless is perfect for Adonim and Ahimans early on (and She****es, which I haven't played much with), goes well with Zamzummim thugs in the midgame, and is really nice gravy on Malik + Ditanu as well as Chayot + Ophanim later on (esp. for rejuv, e.g. it makes the regular old non-commander Ophanim accumulate no fatigue even if they trample 4 squares per turn, except in cold/swamps). Ashdod is still not as strong as Niefel early on, and recruitable Niefel Jarls are better SCs than recruitable Adonim... but Ashdod is terribly well-rounded.

A gcost increase for Zamzummim would not be out of line, to make them have awful research (like Helheim) to compensate for awesome units. PD is not as strong as Hinnom but is pretty decent, and nerfing PD would not mess up the nation thematically. (E.g. you could have human slaves + Edomites for PD instead of Edomites + Gileadites.)

-Max