Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

And welcome to the two new members!

Woot!

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Let's see... Paladin (Narf), Wizard (Violist), Favored Soul (Douglas), Rogue (Null) - close to the iconic four ... probably getting to be about time to retire Jason and focus on DMing ...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I just checked my 3.5 PHB vs my old 3.0 PHB, and there are only two differences. Ironically, one of them is highly relevant to my character. First, 3.5 includes the errata changing Gruumsh to chaotic evil. Second, Ehlonna's favored weapon was changed from the longsword to the longbow.
Since I have no particular preference for my character's deity and Ehlonna is the only deity with a ranged favored weapon in 3.5 (no deities favored a ranged weapon in the 3.0 pantheon), I'll be a longbow wielding Favored Soul follower of Ehlonna. I haven't decided between elf and human yet for the race.
So, 3 pm Eastern.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I want to start two hours early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Updated charsheet for Kaylin (the wizard). Sorry about the first one...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Don't retire Jason!!!

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Umm.. for us West Coasters that's ... really early, if your normal start time is 1 PM EST.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

normal start time is 3 PM EST. I want to start at 1 PM EST...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Might I suggest adding Analyze Dweomer to your spell list? The focus costs a bit of money (1500 gp) but it's not consumed in the casting like Identify's pearl, and the spell is great for identifying LOTS of stuff really quickly - 1 item per round, up to a total of 1 item per caster level, compared to 1 item per casting and a 1 hour casting time for Identify.

Haste is an excellent whole-party buff that I advise you learn.

As a wizard, you are not limited to the spells you learn from levelling up. You can add any number of spells to your spellbook by paying the cost of a scroll for each extra spell.

Your spell list seems heavily oriented towards killing things, which means your save DC's are very important. You might want to spend some feats on Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus to make your spells harder to resist. This is particularly important for save-or-die spells like Phantasmal Killer, Disintigrate, and Finger of Death.

You forgot to take your Headband of Intellect into account for bonus spell slots.

You might want to consider going for the Archmage prestige class, which would require increasing your Knowledge (Arcana) skill ranks to 15 and changing three of your feats.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oh, that's fine - it's much better to get such things ironed out here where we all can look at things at our lesure than it is to have to point such things out during the game when you had planned an encounter around having something available that you don't have available.

Seems consistent.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hmm, Analyze Dweomer sounds useful... probably more useful than Flesh to Stone. Haste - perhaps in replacement of Fireball? You're right, my spell list is perhaps too heavy on the killing stuff spells. I think I'll also trade the Run feat in to gain Spell Focus... I don't see a Greater Spell Focus though.

I'm not seeing any bonus spell slots from the Headband (at least, on d20srd.org).

Anyone have any other suggestions before we start tomorrow?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

No, keep Fireball. Just pay 3 (spell level) * 5 (minimum caster level) * 25 (scroll) = 375 gp and add Haste without losing anything. The ability to do this is almost the whole point of being a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer.
Nothing wrong with having a blaster mage, but as a Wizard you should have utility spells too. Your regular list of prepared spells (which I don't see anywhere on your sheet) should be predominantly combat oriented, but you should use your ability to pay money for extra spells known to be able to prepare for nearly anything given a day to change your prepared spells. Teleport and Greater Teleport would be good to have just for what I can think of off the top of my head. You should pretty much just go through the entire wizard spell list and learn anything that sounds useful and not too similar to something else you already know until you run out of money.
I don't know where you're looking that you can't find Greater Spell Focus, but it's in the feats section of the official SRD on the Wizards of the Coast website. If you decide to go for the Archmage prestige class, which has some quite useful abilities, I'd suggest replacing Magical Aptitude with Skill Focus (Spellcraft).

The Headband does not grant bonus spell slots directly, per se, but indirectly by increasing your primary ability score. You should use your total intelligence, including the Headband, to determine bonus spell slots.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah - pick up a few scrolls (spell level * caster level * 25 + Material Components Cost + 5*XP cost) of a few spells, and scribe them into your Blessed Book - a 7th level spell scroll, with no XP or expensive Material Components, costs 2275 gp (7th level spell, caster level 13th); 6th costs 1650, 5th costs 1125, 4th costs 700, 3rd 375, 2nd 150, 1st 25.

Also consider a safe rest spells (such as Rope Trick (2nd), Secure Shelter (4th), or Mage's Magnificient Mansion (7th)), some buffing spells (Mass Bear's Endurance would grant every living critter in the party quite a few extra HP for a time, while Mass Cat's Grace increases AC (by raising Dex) and Mass Bull's Strength increases damage; even the lowly Mage Armor can really help those that, for one reason or another, aren't wearing significant amounts of armor), and utility spells (okay ... what do you do if, say, an Invisible Stalker decides you would make an excellent target? Likewise, sure, you can use Overland Flight to stay out of ground-based combat and get over those peksy walls, but that isn't going to let anyone else in the party follow you; et cetera)

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I'm finishing up my character sheet, just one feat and some equipment left. There's one particular set of body slot conflicts for magic items that I always run into when making high level characters, and I'd like approval for my standard solution:

The conflict is that an Amulet of Natural Armor, Periapt of Wisdom, and Amulet of Health all take up the same slot. My standard solution is custom items using the body slot affinities table. Specifically, I want a Headband of Wisdom (affinity: mental improvement) and a Shirt of Health (affinity: physical improvement). Since these both match the slot affinities, they should cost the same as the normal item.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Sure, with one little caveat - you have to have been able to build them yourself for the off-slots - if you take Craft Wondrous Item and all the pre-requisite spells for those migrated items on your known list when you start, then go for it. Otherwise, Ye Olde Shoppe of Majicke is going to note that Wisdom falls more under Discernment than mental improvements, and Con and Natural Armor fall under Protection.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Well, that settles my final feat choice. Oh yeah, how much xp above the minimum for 13th level do I have available to spend on crafting items?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

86888-78000=8888; however, you just need to have been capable of making the migrated items - if you meet those criteria, you can purchase rather than build yourself.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ah, but making them myself costs half price http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. Thank you, that's quite a bit more than enough for all my crafting needs. Now why can't clerics cast Cat's Grace? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Cause clerics don't suck in meelee?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Because default clerics get heavy armor proficiency, which makes it kinda useless for them. Druids, on the other hand, are much more sharply limited on what armor they can take, and do have it on their list.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Finished. Elorin the Favored Soul worshiper of Ehlonna is attached. The many weapon entries are because OpenRPG has no clue when rolling secondary attacks is appropriate, and to account for every combination of feats I could use with attacking. The numbers given assume that I have Greater Magic Weapon active on the bow and Magic Vestment on the chain shirt and shield, which is a pretty safe bet as I'll be casting all three spells with Extend Spell metamagic (26 hour duration) every night before resting, or in the morning if I didn't have enough spell slots left. The Headband of Wisdom, Shirt of Health, Belt of Giant Strength, and Cloak of Charisma were all crafted by my character.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

...I was right??

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

All right, going through spell list.. I'm slightly confused here - many of these spells have material components required, but I can't seem to find the component for sale. Is that just me not looking in the right places, or is there some system in place for keeping track of them?

So far I'm thinking I'll get:
Haste (requires licorice root)
Secure Shelter (requires square chip of stone, crushed lime, sand, water, splinters of wood... string, a bit of wood...silver wire, tiny bell)
Mass Bear's Endurance
See Invisibility (talc, powdered silver)

That'll bring the amount of gp I have left to 1058... probably not going to go for the Archmage class, at least not yet. Teleport is really expensive at 2275 (unless I'm missing something...), so I don't think I'll buy it unless someone wants to loan me some money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Thanks for helping out, I haven't played D&D in ages. Any further comments?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Unless it lists a cost for the material component right there in the spell description, assume the cost is negligible and that you always have it available as long as you have your spell component pouch. The same rule also applies for spell foci.

Haste is good, Secure Shelter could be useful, and See Invisibility can be critical at times. I'm not so sure about the value of Mass Bear's Endurance, though - it doesn't stack with any items that increase constitution, and I would expect most PC's that want such items to already have them by 13th level. That would either reduce its effective bonus to +2 or make it completely useless for most PC's.

I'd suggest Glitterdust to go along with See Invisibility - it's nice if you can see invisible enemies, but it's much better if everyone can see them and they're blinded http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. If you can get the money to pay for it or give up another spell in exchange, it might be worth it to learn Permanency and spend the 1000 xp to make See Invisibility permanent so you don't have to waste a round casting it every time you need it.

I also highly recommend Slow. It's just as great an enemy debuff spell as Haste is a party buff, if not even better. Slowed enemies can't full attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif. Heck, they can't even move more than 5 feet in a round and continue fighting at the same time.
I hope you remembered to buy the 1500 gp focus for Analyze Dweomer. If not, you'll have to revise your spell list or drop some equipment so you'll be able to afford it.
Greater Teleport is expensive, yes, but just plain Teleport costs a mere 1125. The drawback is that Teleport has a chance of being off target, but it's not a very high chance.
I hope you've already got OpenRPG set up and working. Also, you should enter your character sheet into OpenRPG so you can roll attack rolls, saving throws, cast spells, etc. just by right-clicking on the entry in the character sheet.

You haven't given any sign yet of having a standard set of spells prepared, and you need one. Unlike Sorcerers, Wizards can't pick and choose from all the spells they know on the spot. You have to pick which spells (and how many of each) to put in your spell slots each day at the start of the day, and it's good to have a standard set so you don't have to agonize over it every day.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oops, I overspent on ability scores there. Drop Charisma down 1 point.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oops, forgot the 1500 GP for the Dweomer focus... taking out Mass Bear's Endurace gives me enough money for the focus and Teleport (leaving me at 83 GP), or, if I leave out Teleport I could use Slow and Glitterdust (puts me back at 683 GP). What does the party think would be more useful?

Just noticed that I could also stick Displacement in... that would be useful on the primary melee character, no? Put me down to 308 GP, but what else do we need gold for?

Thanks for the tip about a standard list, I'm putting it together... let you guys know when I'm done, it'd help to have a list that complements the party's abilities.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Shiney spells are cooler, so I'd go with slow and glitterdust : )

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Take Slow and Glitterdust, and yes Displacement would be very useful on the primary melee fighter. I've got near 3000 gp left, so I'll buy you a scroll of Teleport. Whether you can add it to your spellbook before we start or whether you'll have to wait until I can hand it over after we join the party is up to Jack.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Might we start earlier than 3:00, to make sure we've got everything done before we start?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ah, nm, too late. I think it's time to start?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I've got no problem with that. Half-hour sounds good...

...That way, we can start fifteen minutes late. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hurry up and get over here, we're 10 minutes late...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Where the heck are you people? We're already 40 minutes late, and rising!

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Aargh. Sorry I'm so late, I had sudden work issues... my viola teacher needed some extra work done today http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Don't worry, the DM and Narf is still an hour late...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Where is everyone? It's an hour after we were supposed to start, and me and NullAhston are the only ones on the server.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Awesome, I'll pay you back whenever I get some money.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Uh...I thought it was at 3:00?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

It was, 3:00 EST.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server's working again...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Connection dropped off - it's back up now, though.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

OK, my standard spell list as I think is happy:

Level Spell
7 Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray
6 Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Stone to Flesh
5 Cone of Cold, Wall of Force, Baleful Polymorph, Overland Flight
4 Black Tentacles, Polymorph, Phantasmal Killer, Secure Shelter, Black Tentacles
3 Slow, Haste, Displacement, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Slow
2 Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Glitterdust, See Invisibility, See Invisible, Cat's Grace
1 Protection from Evil, Burning Hands, Magic Missile, Magic Weapon, Shield, Magic Missile
0 Light, Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Arcane Mark

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Back a little earlier than I expected.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

7 dire wolves killed, 1 escaped, one demon slain; 600 xp for Kibin (you are ECL 15 in an otherwise ECL 13 party, facing off against a CR 14 encounter), 1170 xp each for the rest of the party members (Jason, Derrel, Kaylin, Elorin); treasure in the form of a reward from the mayor for taking down the dire wolves - 429.65 gp to each player (sold gems), except for Kaylin, who pulled some gems from the pool and hired some jewelery (however, she now sports an exquisite gold hair comb with an Elbaite gem and a delicate silver neclace with a black opal).

Also, we have the fate of a +1 Manual of Gainful Exercise (from the mayor's chest; market value: 27,500 gp) to debate - do we use it on a party member to add a +1 Inherent Bonus to Str, or do we sell it for 13,750 gp?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I vote for selling it. Manuals are extremely cost inefficient even just looking at one by itself, we haven't reached the limits of other kinds of items that can give more bonus for the cost, and upgrading an inherent bonus really really sucks - the original bonus is just completely lost, effectively tossing all that money away.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Chuckle - it's also kinda odd that you would ever encounter one in a random generated treasure pile - really, who would go to the trouble of making one, and then not using it immediately? For that matter, with just about anyone who could make one, who would go to the trouble? A few scrolls of Wish would serve the same purpose much faster.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense that it wouldn't be used right away. As for why scrolls of Wish aren't used instead, the manuals do have a slight discount compared to that - 27000 per point vs 28825 per Wish - and scrolls take just as long to make as any other magic item for their cost. Then again, you can make 5 scrolls of wish one at a time, building up xp between each, where the xp spent on making a manual or casting Wish directly has to be spent all at once. Hmm, this makes me wonder how the +5 manuals ever get made. You'd have to be 25th level to be able to have the required amount of experience without having enough to level up. Now what's really puzzling is why high level Sorcerers don't Gate in Solars and have them use their once-a-day free Wish instead.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Nah - just Planar Bind two Noble Dijinn or Efreet, and convince them both to grant you the three wishes they can grant to a mortal each day in rapid succession - two regular Planar Bindings (6th) will do, as they both have 10 HD each; granted, there is some uncertainty in that - opposed Charisma checks (Efreet and Noble Dijinn should be running at Char 15, mostly), with modifiers for payment, a save involved in getting each critter into a prepared circle (Efreeti have a will save +9 vs. Planar Binding's 6th level spell DC), and spell resistance (which neither has, and this portion can be eliminated with a Calling Diagram) - but a competent Sorceror could get +5 Inherent to all stats at level 12, with a little work (one engraved circle and three spells per binding - Magic Circle Against the appropriet alignment, Dimensional Anchor, and the Planar Binding spell itself - 10 minutes to scribe a circle (at 12th, with max ranks in Spellcraft, you can take 10 and succeed without any difficulties), 1 round each for Magic Circle Against X and Dimensional Anchor, and 10 minutes to cast Planar Binding itself). An hour's work and a Sorceror with three appropriet spells can have +6 to the stat of his choice ... assuming the Sorceror wins the opposed Charisma checks, and the critters don't make their initial will saves.

No XP expenditure at all....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Which reminds me - the party has reached Party Level 14, so it's time to raise the BBEG's level again....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Now what happens if we have Kaylin try that to give all of us +5 inherent to all 6 ability scores? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif