Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

That would be great. I would think we would need fields for an amount needed modifier,demand variables and ship size to use.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

Whoa, AI scripts are in themselves "moddable" - they can read external text files to configure themselves? That is just... wow...

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

Yes. Currently the only call for an external data file is with the speech files.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

It occurs to me that we could write the scripts to emulate the SE4 AI system, if we really wanted to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

Kwok can you include the 3rd party shipsets? even if you just use the default AI on them...

with the "allow main empires" set to FALSE these canot be used on PBW unless the host knows to change this setting to TRUE for the first turn, and it's complicated enough to get a game started on PBW as it is.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

Why does the host have to allow main empires? If a player has setup their empire file with a custom set, I'd assume they would had to add the set to the mod (as per the readme instructions) for it to even be picked with the empire file. Or might this be causing problems because PBW doesn't have any sets installed with the mod so the slots are off etc?

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

Kwok one more impression from 1.05:

The AI's seem to manage their empires pretty well, ship designs are good as far as I can tell and they expand very well. Good work.
The one big weakness I see in my current game however is that the AI attack not enough: They have a lot of ships but seem to be afraid to attack. Probably they went into "defensive state", but even if the AI loses most of it's ships, it would still be better attacking than awaiting the attack. In SE attacking was always a better strategy than defending IMO, but for the AI is vital to keep attacking.
And as long as the mega evil empire event does not terminate war between different AI empires, it would be very good, if the AI attacks would concentrate on the strongest enemy, which is mostly the human empire.

Thank you for your good work!

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

yes that's the problem, except it's not that the slots are off, the shipset just gets changed to a random one that the host DOES have in the mod dir. once the first turn is done, then if PBW does not have the shipset that the host set it too, then it will get randomly changed again.

so, with allow main empires FALSE, the host and PBW BOTH have to have the shipset that teh player installed installed into the mod empire dir.

if the host switches the allow main empires to TRUE and has the shipset installed in the default shipset folder, then it's all good, since PBW (currently) has all the 3rd party shipsets installed in teh default empires dir. this line (like the overide slots line) only needs to be TRUE for the first turn.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

Another feedback:

Supplies seem to be a problem for the AI. I find quite a lot of ships and entire fleets with no supplies left. My suggestion would be to include one or two solar collectors in the ship designs.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

I'm currently working on altering how states are entered by adding a modifier based on number of allies, enemies, and wars. For example, an AI with lots of allies is more likely to be aggressive with an enemy, while an AI in a lot of wars with few allies will adopt a much more defensive stance.

I really need to improve fleet composition. Supply ships don't seem to be spread out in multiple fleets very well, same problem with mine sweepers and repair ships too.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

Kwok,

While your doing that, could you try to make the modifiers available for change from the race files?

I was going to ad the ship demand modifier today. To start you can alter the base demand. he add more fields once that works.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

How do you convert a value from a data file to a long/int? There does not appear to be a Sys_Get_Datafile_Field_Value_As_Long() or sys_convert_long().

Nevermind, found it.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Discussion
 

How does the entire supply thing work for the AI anyway? Does it check fleet supplies before carrying out an order? Will it try to return to friendly space when getting low on supplies?

Perhaps there should be made, if there isn't already, some sort of Get Supplies order. So, if a fleet is getting low on supplies, it will find a friendly system with a supply base and remain there, not moving, until it has a certain % of the supply storage filled. Then it will go back to whatever other order has the highest priority.

Attacking planets in 1.05?
 

Ok,given that normal weapons are particularly ineffective in BM, what weapons are suggested? Planetary Napalm is bugged versus ringed planets... Are other bombardment weapons similarly buggged or at least considered 'bolt' weapons..

Both myself and my opponent have watched our fleets get decimated by little planets with as little as 2 weapons platforms.... Clearly another strategy is in order.

We are using Balance Mod 1.05 so I'm particularly interested in suggestions relating to this mod.

Thanks,

Javaslinger

Re: Attacking planets in 1.05?
 

More or less any long range seeking weapon (torpedoes, missiles) or any beam weapon (APB, PPB, High Energy Discharge Weapons etc) seem to be ok.

Re: Attacking planets in 1.05?
 

Well, I have finally started a new game with 1.05 but unfortunately I chose simultaneous mode. SE V is unplayable in simultaneous mode! I literally cannot play more than one turn at a time without exiting and restarting the game. It will inevitably crash if you try to process more than one turn at a time. Is it this bad for everyone? No wonder people are pissed off.

At 60 turns in, I've decided to give up because it's so tedious to play by saving and exiting after each turn. So, with only 60 turns to go on, I can only give a slight review. Even early in the game the AI is now shockingly efficient. I was struggling respond to what the AI was doing the whole time. Part of that might be my unfamiliarity with simultaneous mode http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif but I also selected the option to make all scores visible and could see that I was never number one in the list. AIs were always building more ships, settling more planets. If I were able to continue this game I suspect I would lose.

Re: Attacking planets in 1.05?
 

yeah baron, I've sent aaron a savegame on that problem already.

If there were quickstart options, I might have caught it before the 1.33 patch... but alas, there's no quickstart options.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Captain , when you release BM version 1.06 will it include FQM beta 5.00 version 10 and the new Multimedia Pack ? Thanks for a great mod , it's the only one I play now !

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

Greetings!

I've posted v1.06 of the Balance Mod. Not too many changes in terms of data files, but lots of AI improvements including management of mixed populations, scrapping facilities to add modifier facilities, and lots of little changes to the AI's ministers in general. You'll have to start a new game if you want the AI to function properly with the new ministers.

Balance Mod Webpage: http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

I've included instructions in the readme.txt for players to incorporate the latest versions of FQM that require the Multimedia Pack.

There's also an updated tech chart for v1.06 on the Balance Mod page.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 1.06 (27 April 2007)
----------------------------

1. Fixed - Error in cost for Supply Storage components
2. Fixed - Error in amount for Advanced Storage Techniques racial trait
3. Changed - Reduced Hardy Industrialists trait to 20% bonus
4. Changed - Increased effect amounts for most Cultural Achievements
5. Changed - Small Graviton Beam can now be used with Troops
6. Changed - Reduced the effect of troops on happiness
7. Fixed - Error in requirements for Organic Heavy Carrier
8. Changed - Reduced Remote Mining component tech level requirements slightly
9. Fixed - Error in tech level requirements for Alloy Burner Missile
10. Changed - Slight adjustment to tech level requirements for Weapon Phase Accelerator
11. Added - New AI Minister to manage populations (ruthlessly)
12. Added - New AI Minister to optimize colony production
13. Changed - AI Minister for Vehicle Construction split into ship and unit Ministers
14. Changed - Tweaked effect amounts and costs for Intel Projects
15. Changed - Improved default strategy choices for AI design types
16. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

Thank you, Captain Kwok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

Yay!

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

Oops - one item I forgot to mention is that the AI uses remote mining now as well.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

I am curious to know if I change the defualt amount of population that can be squeezed into a cargo space if that will change any of the new AI minisiters you have implemented for population control.

I beleive that the defualt is:
Pop for 1 pt of cargo = 40

For realism if I changed it to:
Pop for 1 pt of cargo = 120

I think I have that right. Basically I am trying to make it so that realistically only a few million people can be loaded onto a colonizer or pop transport rather than hundreds of millions.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

It should be fine as it's % space filled calculation to determine whether or not a transport has enough cargo.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

1.06?! Aargh! I'm halfway through a game in 1.05, and now another version comes out. Should I upgrade, or continue the game then upgrade when I'm done? Decisions, decisions. I'll probably upgrade and start a new game. I'm anxious to try out the new image package that came out.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

If you have split the ship and unit ministers, is there a way to control which of these are enabled or disabled? Could I have only the unit minister enabled and reserve ship-building for myself? Or are the minister options hard-coded into the game menus?

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

gregebowman:

You should finish your v1.05 game first as changes to the AI's list of ministers are not registered unless you start a new game.

Baron:

There are 3 ministers for construction now - facilities, ships, and units - each one operates independently. The list of ministers is moddable and was changed in v1.06, but like I mentioned above, the changes only register with new games.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

well in that case, he can upgrade now, it's just that the changes will not happen till he starts a new game right?

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

Does version 1.06 have any bearing on a PBW game with no AI's?

Should we or do we need to ugrade?

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

Not quite - there were also some name changes to the Ministers in the v1.06 scripts that will cause them not to do anything with a game started in v1.05...

PBW games can upgrade with no ill effects.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

Kwok don't you think that MM should try to change this?
If you have to start a new game everytime you change the AI it might get very tedious.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

I was kind of surprised that the ministers were treated like the design types, that is the ministers are saved with the game and never loaded again from the minister data file. So it would be better like you suggest to have MM to change that...

Re: Balance Mod v1.06 Available
 

does the ~recalc cheat not work for this?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Kwok , after 58 turns , the ai won't build intelligence facilities on my intelligence planets (so it's showing as 0 int points), but is it possible that the ai won't build intelligence facilities because i don't have any intelligence research done yet ?

Re: Balance Mod
 

Boromeo:
Has Intelligence Services I been researched.

---

Comments about the AI? Are they being too friendly in general?

Re: Balance Mod
 

Hmmm no, must be the reason why no intelligence facilities have been constructed, research are under ai control but after 74 turns now since intelligence points are very important , i wonder why the ai did not do intelligence research yet (after 74 turns)

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Kwok I noticed that some AI build remote mining ships in BM 1.05 (I did not start a new game with 1.06 yet), but these ships sit just over a colony and are therefore useless as far as I can see.
As my game is quite advanced now (over 2420.0), I see AI mining warp points, which is very good!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Remote mining orders were added in v1.06, but I guess you'll have to wait a bit to see that.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I've just been informed that the Steam version of SE V auto-updates even if you tell it not to, and that backup copies will also be auto-updated. Horrible news for a PBW game, of course. Do new patches tend to break Balance Mod savegames, or is it usually possible to patch, update to the new patch-compatible Balance Mod, and continue playing? If not, we might be forced to play stock (ugh).

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

New patches wouldn't affect Balance Mod PBW games.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

That's great news. Thanks!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

In my version 1.06 game, I've noticed that:

a) AI empires are only putting version 1 of their weapon choice on their ships. The Eee have level 1 meason blasters and cap ship missiles, everyone else is using DU cannons. The year is 2405.4.
b) AI controlled ships don't approach within about 9 'squares' of a planet, even if they have weapons with less than 9 squares range. I ran a simulation with an AI's planetary bombardment ship, and it just went back and forth without firing. I ordered it to move in closer, and it obliterated the planet. My ships using level 3 AP beams (which have range 9, IIRC) destroy the planet without needing orders.

c) AIs propose very comprehensive treaties on first contact again.

Also, regarding the mod in general.

a) AI designs don't have enough armour, and don't research it enough. Early AI destroyers are /pants/ because they have, like, two beam or direct fire weapons, and then a heavy weapon which is usually a missile and then only two pieces of armour. Well, of course the missile gets shot down by point defence and ship is destroyed in short order because it has virtually no armour. It gets worse when they get shields, because shields aren't really worth it until about level five, so they waste 30kt for 120k of shields when they could get 100kt from a single piece of level 5 armour.
b) AI's are too agreeable, and want to be buddies all the time. I know it's probably a lot of work to try and get a really decent AI script that declares war, sues for peace and proposes treaties appropriately, but there's a few races in there that are not inclined to be diplomatic, and so you can write very simple scripts for them.

The Sergetti and the Amon'krie are xenophobes. They should be exceedingly reluctant to sign treaties with anyone. I actually wrote such a script myself for the Amon'krie, back when I was dicking around with the AI scripts. They *only* treaty they'd sign was a non-aggression treaty, and only if you had really good relations; these were always called non-intercourse or non-interference treaties. And if you so much as sneezed at them, they'd declare war. Very simple to write, but it adds character and variety to the AIs.

I had grandiose plans to make their anger level based on proximity and on entering their systems, so they'd lash out at nearby empires but tolerate ones on the other side of the map. Of course I never got round to any of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif The sithrak could also benefit from a similar treatment.

And no, declaring war on everyone in sight doesn&amp;#8217;t make good strategic sense. But a lot of the time, cultural or political forces in a society can cause it to do things they don&amp;#8217;t make perfect sense, or any sense.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

I made a change to the way score comparisons were handled and it looks like it's been returning 0 values often, skewing certain diplomatic variables that control treaty elements and other decisions. In theory it should behave more as you describe with aggressive or xenophobic races.

I been working on v1.07 which so far has involved modifications to the way designs are made. One of the changes is to emphasize complete direct fire or complete seeker designs. The other change focuses on improving space usage on designs.

The research queue itself needs major overhaul.. that'll probably be reserved for v1.08...

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

Hello Capt. , I have an idea , if it's not practical forgive me. The default amaount for systems is 100 yet we can use up to 255 . Why can't there be a setting in the map generator where we could pick the amount of systems we want 1 thru 255 or , small - 50 , medium - 125 , large - 200 and huge - 255 . Doing it this way instead of having to go in to Settings.txt seem easier and gives us more control - Thanks

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

Send an e-mail to MM about it. He's the only one that can change that. Some time ago I think we recommended either a slider or an amount to type in for the number of systems.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

Don't forget to create the different classes of fighters, so we can better control there actions and targeting. ie: Fighter Intercepters, Fighter Bombers, Fighter Multi-role.

Those name are close to actual military classifications. Here is how the USA lists aircraft: US Military Aircraft Classification Symbols

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

Maybe I will finish teh game in 1.05 first. Hate to get halfway through a game and not finish it. I'll have to think about it.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

Captain Kwok:

I'm using your latest empire scripts and having a AI slowness in expansion issue. I've modded your mod so that there is only one colony module and it for all three types. In 9 game turn I have nine planets in my home system the enemy two at best, doesn't matter if they have viable or only domed planets to colonize. I've looked at the empire scripts and changeed many things to no avail they just laze around and expand at a snails pace compared to me. I pretty much set the "demand" of all ship types majorly lower than colony ships among other things but they still take forever to expand. Any ideas? Should I just give them an AI bonus? thanks for a great mod, and I hope you releas said scripts again for new version if you tweak them alot.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

I would change all the entries and related scripts for the three classic colonizer types and just make a single AI design type "Colony Ship". Also, for the Colony Ship demand I would add all 3 lists (gas, rock, ice) for the desired amount of ships. A low bonus is fair for the AI, as it can't quite do the advanced micromanaging of queues and resources that human players will do.

Re: Balance Mod v1.06
 

Thanks Kwok, Actually I already combined the three types into one "Colony (Multi)" type. I tried the demand list both ways with just multi once and multi three times simply replacing the other three. then upped the demand rating for each by a factor of 100 and the dec by a factor of 10 so they'd have ten ships before the demand satrted wanning (if I undertood it correctly...)

I have noticed this file is a bit finicky some change to the demand ratios makes the AI totally freak out and drop the worth/resources/everything to almost 0 (how they lose buildings/research just by having no demand for attak ships... It usually hapeens on the third or forth game turn their research will drop to 750 and everything else very low or 0 I don't recall their numbers.)

What I was going for is to have them produce ship wise 95% colony ships and very few defense ships until they meet someone else. they seem to either pull some info from another file or the AI is bugged (I had unit production/demand at 0 and they still made units...instead of colony ships...)

Oh well I play with it some more over the weekend, and see if there isn't something obvious I'm missing. (And yes I know you have to start a new game to get all the benifits of the file changes.)