Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you must include either Nethgul, or Sandals of the Crane, to get the full "chaos" effect generated through repeated Blinking. :P

And ummm, why would Blindness make you immune to the Stone Sword? :o

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I assume you'd be immune to the stone sword because the petrify effect works like the gorgon medusa. You could only be petrified by looking at the medusa, and if you're blind, you cannot look at her. Whether this is intentional by the developers or an oversight is something I couldn't answer.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I, unfortunately, have no interesting tales to tell about beating the Sidhe, mostly, because it seems that they've stopped really caring about what happens in Ulm. They're still trying to avoid my large army of Black Knights, as it seems they fear death very much :p. By now, I think all of the O'Giantslayers have vacated Ulm, likely going on to greener (likely soon to be redder, one way or another) pastures which do not involve Black Knights or Arbalests (which are surprisingly effective if the Sidhe get in range).

Finally, I can't really think of any Werewolf ideas that actually work, due to not having much time and also being a newb. However, I can suggest prying a Frost Brand from the cold dead hands of a Sidhe (preferrably an O'Giantslayer) and then giving it to a blind werewolf. If you can get one, an Eye Shield would be nice too (but if not, a Vine Shield works just as well). Less because it would work against the Sidhe and more because it would be fun to give them a taste of their own medicine and/or watch how well-prepared they are against Eye Shields and Frost Brands (in fact, you could probably sneak around Sidhe lands too if you happen to have a spare spy or the money to get one).

One last thing: I do plan on at some point, for however brief a period, owning the Forge of the Ancients. Preferably not by going to war with Agartha.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I'm honored I'm somehow still the focus of the world's conspiracies.

As for those wolves...give them "Nightgown of the Grandmother"...the ambush opportunities should be obvious. ;)

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Oh i am not involved in any "conspiracy." The chances of Utgard ever seeing the Stone Sword are slim and none. I just could not pass up the challenge.

Darkwind, you can cast the Forge, you just have to use more gems then LA Agartha used. Then you will "own" it. I think Dr P said he would contribute earth gems to a "freindly" nation casting the Forge, so you may want to talk to him if you have constr. 7.

I doubt MA Ulm owning the Forge will create the stir LA Agartha owning it has. LA Agartha does not mind if you overwrite their global, that is all part of the game. Globals get dispelled and overwritten all the time. No one has a claim to a global.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I will absolutely contribute earth gems to MA Ulm putting up the forge. I'd expect a few items in return, but that's only fair and reasonable, I think.

More to the point, we should get a consortium together of ~3 players to combine forces and help MA Ulm put up the forge. A reasonable division of items could then be arranged.

If this sounds like a reasonable plan to anyone else, PM me.

LA Agartha can send me flowers in exchange for saving him from destruction at the hands of the rest of the world :)

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Agrat bat Malat, Manticore, Pretender of EA Abysia, had his soul forcibly removed by a Sibyl. He and his band of Burning Ones, Misbreds, Warlocks, and Fire Mages, have been slain. They are no more.

Though they still own a swamp province.....it is over.

I would like to thank Bananadine for playing. And again compliment him on his skill in playing the EA Abysians. They were a tough out. Much much tougher than I bargained for.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Here we have the heroic Arthgallo heroically attacking the LA Agarthan capital:
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2...6539jm4.th.jpg

And here he is heroically abiding by the 50-turn battle limit:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8...1147dk8.th.jpg

Eriu leads the charge against the Agarthan nemesis. Any nation that fights against Eriu fights for Agartha. Namely, LA Marignon, LA Utgard, MA Ulm, & MA Jotunheim. Puppets.

:D

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

The problem with that is that Ulm is nowhere near const 7, due to trying to get Iron Blizzard, and also the rather costly fight against Eriu (our stocks of gold are down from maybe 7000+ at our peak to ~2500, though that's still quite a bit). I'd love to try though.

Also, I applaud (quietly, due to not wanting MA Ulm proper to be blighted multiple times per month for the next year) Eriu's fight against Agartha; Monny would due, had he hands to clap with. An attempt to get out of war with 4 other nations (by the way MA Jotunheim is AI and has barely any provinces so it's really only three), but laudable nonetheless. Anon the Black Priest, however, would likely not clap, though he mostly exists to give a healthy dose of Not Expecting the Marignese (Marignonian? Marignian? Marignonese?) Inquisition to Monny, and also comedic relief (although the comfy chair does that just as reliably).

How did I manage to get Monty Python involved in my roleplaying as MA Ulm? The world may never know.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

On turn 42 the contenders all have 40 plus provinces, though with the Forge up, and a tremendous lead in research, LA Agartha is the race to beat. And likely the easiest path to 15 with easy access to the water nations, which, unlike the last Big Game, seem to be vulnerable.

But the knocking on the door races are, drum roll

Niefel, MA and LA Marignon, Helheim, LA Caelum, and Bandar Log.

Judge for yourself. the numbers do not lie:

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScore...game=KingMaker

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Why must I be surrounded by these three? :P

Every time I decide to kill a neighbor, someone much larger says "oh hi, this is ours", and the whole plan goes to poo. :re:


Gath dammit! :o

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

As the game progresses, there will be nothing left but powerful nations by which to be surrounded. You likely USED to have less powerful neighbors, but they have been gobbled up.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Oh I edited the quote wrong, those aren't exactly the 3 who border me, but same result. :P

But I inherited Gath with a reallllly slow start (several early stales), and was barely getting things rolling and Bandar Log ate Ulm. I reorganized, went for Agartha, and Dr P bit my head off. ;) Now, I'm just little old me, looking for that fabled "opportune moment".

Grumble grumble. :p

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Whatever happended to Lanka? I need to know so I can send the ghosts of LA Pythium to go haunt him.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

From the graphs it would seem that Lanka has fallen into mediocrity at least when province count is considered. Yet their army count is steadily increasing, which would bode doom to some unfortunate neighbour soon. *dum dum doom*

Anyway, given MA Ulm's lack of research the current best proposition appears to be LA Arcoscephale's Dispel. Bandar Log soon has the research for Const7, but since we've been just nominated one of the top contenders in a continent filled with top contenders, I don't believe I have enough diplomatic maneuvering room anymore.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

MA Ulm, having finally researched Iron Blizzard and Magma Eruption in all of their mid-tier glory, is proud to announce an initiative to take over the Forge. As we have already been blessed with an E3 Smith (currently on Fruit Loop-hunting duty), all we need is a single non-Earth Boot item and at most 8 months of research (being halfway through Constr 5 and having 280 research per turn with more than a page and a half of smiths, sigh) and Ulm will be well on its way to having the Forge of the Ancients.

No offense meant, LA Agartha. I just really want that extra forging cost and path bonus. Due to, you know, having only the Forges of Ulm and an army of Black knights backed by Iron Eruptions and Magma Blizzards between me and painful death.

:D

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Turn 43 Score graphs.

The rich get richer.

2 nations(niefelheim and helheim) over 50 provinces, with la marignon close at 49. Other powers over the 40 mark, ma marignon, la caelum, bandar log.

The leader remains LA Agartha.

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScore...game=KingMaker

Dead nations by era

Early 12
Middle 10
Late 7

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Hi!

Seems LA nations fare better in these big games.

Thoughts on the game? Or is it too early to say anything?
Effects from no free spawn nations, wrap around map and other stuff.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Ha Ha, I said a long time ago that La nations have a slight advantage overall than nations of other eras in a megagame.

Whats happening is fairly simple, in the early part of the game La nation units tend to have a advantge in protection values mainly. This avantage is small vs Ma but larger vs Ea. So in the early game more Ea nations are going to be eliminated or end up with small kingdoms.

The Ea exceptions to this rule are of course heavy, powerful bless nations such as Ea Lanka, Mictlan, Helheim and Niefelheim. Ea Kailasa also took a powerful bless. Tir Na Nog and Fomoria perhaps have a strong bless? Anyway those are 2 of the more powerful Ea nations anyway.

This creates a problem for future megagames because once a advantage, even a slight one becomes well known, people will exploit it even more. An example is Ma Ulm used to always get targeted early on in MP games because it was viewed as weak and a easy kill. With La nations having a slight advantage, they will tend to target Ea nations in future megagames, avoiding of course the Ea heavy hitters.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

There's a wide range of play skill and luck involved here, I'm not sure if these differences are really significant. It's true that an EA nation with no stellar early defenses (EA Ermor, for example) is a more attractive target than a LA nation with 2 fewer gems per month.

LA nations also tend to have larger admin bonuses in their capitals, making them stronger even with an equivalent military.

But EA Ermor has good protection (about the same as MA if you only field the high prot legionaire anyway) and still always dies.

Now, everyone thinks the forge was dispelled? Maybe, but that's a pedestrian answer. I think it was cast by an K'tonian necromancer who got smacked down by one of 5,000 seeking arrows helheim just lobbed.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

In the 1st Big Game the EA did best, and the LA the worst. So I am not sure conclusions can be drawn yet. There were also more players taking EA races in this game then late.

In my war against EA Abysia, I would say the Burning Ones have protection as good as the best la nation, especially with their e9n4 bless, and their pd is 2nd to none. I attribute the difference in the outcome of the war to my pretender a 5d 3e 3a Lich, and superior research. The Lich gave LA Arcos a tie to much needed thugs.

The difference in the war was I had const 6 items and banelords, and effective communions and reverse communions. But had it been simply a fight between castle bought troops, EA Abysia would have won quite easily.

Then you have 2 on 1 wars, and even 3 on 1 wars. So EA Hinnom and LA mictlan really had very uphill fights with the former having to fight Lanka and Kailasa, and the latter EA and MA Ctis, plus MA Ulm with their new Bane of Heresy weapons.

I also agree with Dr. P that EA Nations and MA Pythium are higher value targets because they produce more gems. All other things being equal, you would rather own a capital of a race that produces 6 rather than 4 gems a turn.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

The effect of no LA Ermor or LA Ryleh means there is no compelling need for alliances to strike them down. In the 1st Big Game no Alliance appeared to take them out, and they became unstoppable in the mid to late game.

Even the strongest nations in Kingmaker are not All Powerful.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

A few anecdotal takeaways from LA Utgard:

I was next to EA Arcos, and never used "high protection" troops - it was just a matter of a strong bless nation next to heavy research dependent nation. High protection can mean need for resources which can actually be a disadvantage anyway depending on your starting terrain. I think it was more bad luck for them more than an inherent LA game edge.

Has LA Agartha captured many/any capitals? My takeaway with their leadership may be that relying on diplomacy to stay safe and focus on researching while your neighbors whittle away their resources and mage-time on battles can be an effective strategy vs. the aggressive, growth for the sake of growth strategy commonly employed. For example, players may fail to fully search and "harvest" the land they conquer while they expand indiscriminately.

Finally, beware piles of froot loops in the bushes. Until Eye Shields get made Const 4, it means you should buy lots of sun glasses....

:)

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

LA Agartha is friendly nation that does not use aggression. We have just liberated MA Caelum capitol that turn from its oppressive goverment, that forced us to start that war.

We are nice and full of love towards everyone. But the one that unmade our Forge will burn in hell. Slowly. And we will make death that brings you to that place will be painful.

If anyone has any information about that pesky little coward, please PM us. You will get rich if your info leads us to that criminal.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

You can lay 5,000 seeking arrows upon the ground in a specific pattern to read "Dispelled" from space. It all depends on your perspective!

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I might need a sub for a little while. My dad decided that updating my graphics driver (my screen has been blacking out on me temporarily for a while now) was a good idea and now, for some reason, various images and text aren't displaying correctly. I can't figure out how to find Kingmaker in-game, let alone play it. Hopefully I can fix this before the turn hosts.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I was just looking at last year's Big Game. The final turn was turn 94. Only a handful of nations were left. Even fewer that could actually fight LA Ermor or LA Ryleh. Those nations were:

LA Ryleh-Evilhomer
LA Ermor- Velusion
MA Agartha Atul
MA Ermor -Lolomo
MA Ctis-Xietor
MA Pangaea-Hadrian(though I am not sure he would have lasted long in any major war)(he mostly picked on small nations).

Alive but I am unsure of their status-doubtful they had much left or could have fought off tartarians hordes for long(but I may be wrong)

EA Oceania- Amhazair
LA Pangaea-Lingchih
EA Pangaea-Szumo
Machaka-Reay
MA Ryleh- Salamander
MA Pythium-Zoshan
MA Tien Chi-Tichy
ma jotunheim-solo
la abysia-Stelteck

EA Oceania was, at one point in the game, a major power. When the game ended I was at war with the LA Ermor block, and had been for several turns. Several races were sitting on the sidelines watching. LA Ryleh being one of them.

But I think the thing you see from the 2 games, is there is very little carryover between races, but a lot of carry over between players.

Lolomo and Atul have new races, but are yet again contenders. Evilhomer is a skilled player, but he did not survive the 3 on 1 scare his presence generated. I think player skill, diplomacy, and luck(where and who you started next to) play major roles in your chances to survive the early and midgame.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Edit: Yay! I can still edit this! Anyways, nevermind about the driver bugging out and all that. I managed to fix it. So, I don't need a sub. Fortunately.

Also, interesting stuff Xietor.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Also if you look at the top races in Kingmaker, they all died early deaths in Perpetuality. Niefelheim may have followed only MA Ulm in the early exit department. LA Agartha was killed off by independents, and I do not mean Bogus or the Ancient Presence. I mean Knights. The evils of Misfortune. I actually think the Bandar Log reached the mid game.

LA caelum I believe died fairly early(i know for a fact the other 2 caelums did), and I am not sure what misfortunes befell the marignons, but they were never a power.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td nowrap="nowrap"> LoloMo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ser_online.gif <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_569322", true); </script>
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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- / user info --><!-- message, attachments, sig --> <!-- icon and title --> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: LA R\'lyeh
<hr style="color: rgb(236, 236, 236); background-color: rgb(236, 236, 236);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Since everyone is laying down their cards, hehe, I'll show mine too.

I was pulling in about 120 Astral Gems from Clams, and about the same number of Earth Gems from blood stones. Making 4 clams and 4 blood stones per turn. I was wishing for gems every turn, and had started in motion another unit to do 2 wishes per turn. My problem was recruiting enough units to put all the stuff I was forging. Most of them were reserve items that I wasn't expecting to use immediately. I had the Steel Oven Construction bonus, so that even though I had access to the forge as part of the Sinister Six Alliance, I found it more convenient to forge my own.

If pressed I would have been capable of 15 seeking arrows, 10 earth attacks, and 6 ghost riders per turn, while still doing all the forging and "turtling" activities. Plus I had prepared a batch of stealthy assasinating Claws of Kokytos casting Spectres that I was about to seed around to catch raiding SCs hehe. Also lots of Druid led raiding Shadow Vestals, a lot of them with flying carpets. I had only used a few squads against Pythium and they were surprisingly effective, enough to probably win me the war by themselves. I had quite a lot of specialized units in reserve that I planned to use to fight a gem efficient war against SCs. I had also planned to use huge communions with my cheap Astral and Death mages.

I had been holding back in the war against MA C'tis, going for gem efficiency rather than a quick kill, as I did not want LA R'lyeh to conclude that it was over for MA C'tis and reveal himself as an ally of MA C'tis. My theory was that the longer the game run, the bigger my advantage gets, especially since no one seems to think that I was clamming =) Without the Steel Oven, I probably would not have spent the huge resources needed to get clamming started.

The biggest danger for me the entire game was in the beginning in the war against Abysia. My vestals were not very effective against heat auras and the dragon pretender, plus they had control of the steel oven then. Then Vanheim joined Abysia in fighting me. I had to pretend to be a lot stronger than I was at that time to get those two to agree to non simultaneous ceasefires, that allowed me to eventually concentrate on Abysia.

After that I had to forge diplomatic ties to keep out of war while I leverage the Steel Oven advantage.


It makes me feel better that someone else of note had trouble with EA Abysia as a 1st foe as well. I will lay down my cards as well Lolomo. You were fighting one fist of my army. My main army sat in my in my mainland. I was hoping to draw out the full tartarian hordes of la ermor and whatever you had up your sleeve in a remote part of the world-which did not connect to my mainland.

I was prepared to lose several tartarians and that gated army, formidable though it was, to draw la ryleh into the war on my side. I figured that was my only hope longterm to even have a possible shot to win. get la ryleh involved, get my advance force killed off, then build up myself while la ryleh took over the fight against the Ermor faction.

of course all of that was before i found out he was wishing 5 times a turn. had I known that i think we could have just declared him the winner.
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Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Haha, had we known he was pulling off 5 wishes a turn, the whole world might have tried to band together to fight him off. That would have been interesting!

This time around, I doubt anyone would be clamming at all, except for gem carrying purposes only.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

PsiSoldier is my temporary sub from next host for around 10-12 turns.
Please send any communications to him, thanks.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

The problem seem to find a good middle ground.

IMO our setting have gone a little too far in the gem economy nerfs, and it will make blood nations unstoppable in late game, as they are the only ones with a growing magic income (being the neighbour of EA Mictlan, and not far from Lanka, it starts to worry me ;) ).

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

blood hunting can be stopped by raiding. clamming cannot.

Though there is typically an incentive to kill blood nations off early before their economies get rolling. Astral corruption cannot be cast with the Kingmaker mod BTW.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

But not as much as master enslave, large communions and mind hunting without fear of feeblemind worrys me! Fat lot of good it is me summoning loads of demons/devils when you can very easily destroy them with communions or later on master enslave my entire army and use it against me. Assuming of course my commanders can move at all without there minds getting squished!

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I agree with Twan - that game setting extremely favor blood nation as they are mostly also heavy bless nations. Difficult research + some items nerfed make it paradise for them [I am happy with the item nerfs though].

Astral is still really strong. Nations without good blood or S are pretty much doomed, like poor La Agartha :(

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

LA Agartha - poster child for impending doom. :cold:

I don't think that Blood is some magically easier road in Very Hard research..... First, you need to study an entirely additional school to get all of your summons. Second, you still need good Cons, and if you want to actually field anything other than SCs, you need all the army buffs everyone else would get. And you have to do this all with less gold income, and some of your mages permanently devoted to catching slaves instead of researching. :p

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Strange-The hosting time was moved back 2 hours.

But since not even Llamabeast himself can do that without my clearance I am manually forcing host as the due time has passed. Never rely on any extension of hosting time from Llamabeast or anyone else unless I am on vacation and pass the admin. hat off to someone else.

Not saying anyone asked for the 2 hour extension, but if someone did, they asked the wrong person.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Llamasever was having difficulties receiving emails, so I guess that's why there was a two hour extension.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

No, there was a message that mail server was down. That is automatic process on llamaserver and it turns on that failsafe postpone. As it went back online it moved back hosting [or you did it :)].

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Xieter no one asked for a extension, its a safety feature of the lamaserver. It could not connect to the server for several hours. In such a situation it automatically extends the host times. This is to prevent anyone who sent there turn in from unfairly missing there turn and give lamaserver time to correct it self.

Check with the Llama himself if you want confirmation.

Remember (except for irons) the lamaserver is all knowing, you are just semi-all knowing.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

It got moved forward by 1 hour now, what is going on?

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I gave myself more time for the turn when I saw the hosting time postponed on llamaserver. I'm a bit disappointed about your action Xietor. Server problems can cause delays but turning the timer back is really confusing. :(

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

It didn't impact me but I do agree that is a bit harsh. I don't memorize the hosting times so rely on whatever I see when I happen to glance at LLamaserver, assuming those times are official, so to suddenly reduce the time could easily have caused me to stale.

So while it didn't affect me, I sympathize with anyone who it did hurt.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I did not receive any pms about anyone unable to send in their turns. If that occurs in the future, let me know and i will postpone hosting. When I forced hosting, there was only 1 nation that had not sent in a turn.

In any event, do not rely on any extensions granted by llamaserver(Typically llamaserver extensions are 24 hours, however, not 2). There is really no reason to wait until the last minute to send in a turn. If players are deliberately waiting until the last minute to avoid an early host, then i will turn quick host off.

But in this case the one player did not wait until the last minute, but 40 minutes after the hosting was due. While I do not want to see anyone stale, I also do not want to see turns take more than their allotted time at turn 44.

To try to encourage players to get their turns in early, and not wait until the last minute, I am going to turn quick host off. We are probably at the point where many of the contenders need the full 48 hours to consider all of their options in any event.

I have not adjusted the hosting time at all. It is 48 hours from the time I hit force host. Which is what it should be.

For those that were unaware that the time was moved back 2 hours and relied on it(Lanka), a possibility I did not consider being a die hard player with the hosting times of all my games memorized, I sincerely apologize. That never entered my mind.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

quickhost is now off. That means no matter when you send in your turn, the game will not host until the entire 48 hour period elapses.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Oh man, that's just not right.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

:fire: :ghug:

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

I am just glad i am on the other side of the world from Lanka, or people may say unkind things about my motives.

:cold:

However, I will offer, when Llamabeast returns, to let him administer the game. Since LA Ctis is out of the game, and the ma man arena thing is his baby anyway, it would be for the best. let's just hope there are no arena events while he is on vacation.

Re: KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!
 

Xietor, don't give up this game. It's your child. :D
I would never allow myself to accuse you of evil intentions. It's a misunderstanding and I would be happy if we could agree to no more forced hosting. Especially when delay is such short. The gain is just not worth the confussion it causes.