Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

The major difference between AIC and Proportions is the special AI technology in AIC. In Proportions, all technologies are available to humans and AIs alike. Otherwise gameplay is very similar.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Oleg I am haveing a hard time beating the AI at low bonus. Do you have any suggestions?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a hard time too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But that's the idea, right ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

It is hard to give a generic advise, it all depend on game setup and opposite races.

Currently, I am in love with missiles (seeking parasite rules !) on a largest hull available. However hard JLS (and other guys) try to optimise AI, the rigid structure of AI files can not adopt to either generic beam ships or dedicated missile hoards.

Even if AI has a numerical advantage, the generic narure of ship designs spread PD fire and stacks of 3+ missiles can get through.

Also, unless I am fighting crystalline race, advanced emmisive armour is a good protection agaonst pesky frigates and fighters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 20, 2003, 21:47: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">!!! SOON !!!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Using the AI Campaign. Made a new race out of the Cue Cappa found in the MOD. New race homeworld has no facilities?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif What did I do wrong? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nevermind, fixed it.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Go to Ship Yard tech 3 as fast as possable then upgrade BSYs and Planet shipyards.
Missile weapons are very good early until you get good sensor Lvl 3 and beam weapon levels 2 or 3 should do it.
Mines only help very early in the game so do this soon. You mist go with 100 lvl 2 MISSILE sats with one PD on each to kill the AI fighters as soon as you can over the warp points.

JLS, is AIC v4.0 going to be out this week or next.

Pathfinder, remember to give the AI 1-3 traits in their general file and when modding AIs in AIC that they grow in relation to Ship Construction so it is best to space this out over there research file.

[ October 22, 2003, 11:14: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Sorry it took so long to reply to my Strange Tact Combat Question.....It was a matter of the ships being out of supply.....Lord help me..sometimes im just not so bright! Thanks for the replies.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Grand Lord Vito: I just copied existing AIC races so hopefully that won't be a problem. Not changing much except weapon names to co-incide with Pax Empieria and same with races and their files.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

=======================================
AI Campaign V4.0 UPGRADE
=======================================

Conceptual:
New Event file with good and bad events; and a Default high zip file that operates at 84% High Event Chance frequency for an ever changing universe. Settings of 100% is Possible without the Heroes Epic or a Cursed starting trait.
Added additional Random events with images.
New 6 varied Event file zip options.
Tweaked Finite Economics Module.
Tweaked AI Balance Module.
Tweaked AI Player Minesweeping - Mottlee
Reduced AI inherent Minesweeping.
Tweaked Strategic and Tactical Fighter Module.

TECH:
New Tech Veneration.
New Tech Immigration.
Tweaked some additional Techs.

Facilities:
New Facilities Debarkation Depot.
New Facilities Heroes Epics and Faith Shrine.
Increased Climate Control Facility values, Alneyan.
Tweaked Nature and some Planet Utilization Facilities costs ~Oleg
Lowered Costs and increased capacity for Resource Storage Facilities ~GLV & Oleg
Further tweaked Planet Utilizations.
Tweaked many Facilities.

Vehicles:
New Frigates now can have 5 Engines.
Reminder that Fast Colonizers also can have 4 Engines.
Revised Freighter Cargo Capacity.
Tweaked small ship maneuverability modifiers for increased specialization.
Human Players Fast Frigates have gained an extra engine.
New Deep Space Supply Base.

Components:
New Ram Scoop Components.
Emergency Propulsion Fix ~ PTF
Corrected some Roman Numerals 3 ~Spoo
Revised Solar Sails ~Spoon
Revised Fighter and Sat Armor ~Oleg
Tweaked many Components.

Intel Projects:
New 2 varied Psychic Intel Zip Options.
Revised and tweaked Psychic Intel Projects and Intel Facilities.

Quadrant Maps:
Open Warp distances for Stellar Manipulation 1 (3to4)(5to6) ~QB
Added/or tweaked Centurion Systems for all quads.


Interface:
Corrected many Typos.

Notes:
Revised order for Random Events ~Oleg
Revised Happiness File ~Fyron
Refugee Images ~Oleg
Some additional AI Player med and late game growth tweaks
Non Psychotic AI anger levels adjusted to be more tolerant to the Human Players with this Version.
Adaptations from PvK's Culture Mod.

Human Player may mix options below.

NEW~Trait Human Player option 1 (O1*) Human Players Advantage: Resulting in a more robust game that requires LESS Micro Management and logistics. Your game will be less dependent on Star Liners with this option.
~Trait Human Player option (O2) Human Player - Advantage for a Balance: That will result in a Better all around Home World.
~Trait Human Player option (O3) Human Player - Excellent Advantage: For a much higher Proportions of Resources (not recommended for Finite Games).
~Trait Human Player option (O4) Human Player - Results in a game requiring more logistics.

~Players may also add (mp1 thru 3) for Handicapping for Multiplayer. MP1-3 May also be used in Solo games, great for a Dual Race Bonus.
~Trait Human Player option (SF) Human Player - Terminal Advantage: Strategic Fighters(gives Fighters System move capabilities)
NEW~Races that you wish not to start your next random game; Place in the [Pictures folder/Race removed from play folder].

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

AIC v4.0 is a stand alone and full upgrade.
Download size (4.07 meg)


(>>> AI Campaign v4.0 <<<)

[ October 24, 2003, 07:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

From what I have seen, great job JLS! I have the feeling I will love the first option, as I tend to be quite lazy from time to time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

For now, I have only one query: how Maintenance is supposed to be working? It seems like the Maintenance characteristic doesn't do much. Here are a couple of examples:

* 100: costs nothing, upkeep 10%
* 105: costs 500 points, upkeep 9,5%
* 115: costs 2900 points, upkeep 8,5%
* 130: costs 5900 points, upkeep 7,0%
Culture neutral for every test, and the test was done with a ship needing 1000 mineral. The results for the upkeeps are accurate with a margin of 0,1% , although I could redo them with a more expensive ship. The results were checked by the organic and rad costs and the upkeep for these two resources.

So, a point in Maintenance reduces the upkeep by 0,1%, while Maintenance costs 300 points after 108. Isn't this cost a bit too much? Or am I missing something really obvious JLS?

Yes, I do need to live up to my status of Most Annoying Black Hole. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, it is indeed seems to be more profitable to invest in production. What ship type did you use ?
I wonder if low maintenace hulls (like small transports) or expensive (like colony ships) make any difference ?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

There are circumstances under which maintenance is slightly more useful though, but even then, the difference isn't really important. And likewise, I believe that increasing resource production is more important when you don't have much ships and you are building a lot of ships and/or facilities. (In the early game for instance)

However, thanks very much Oleg, you made me realize I picked a "maintenance reduced" ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Now redoing my calculations. Sorry for my silliness. *Grumbles*

EDIT: Actually, almost all ships are using a "Reduced maintenance" ability according to the vehiclesize file, but not all show that ability in their descriptions. Thus partially explaining my mistake. (Only partially since I could have checked that is)

[ October 24, 2003, 15:23: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

What you say in regards to maintenance for AIC has merit, AI Campaign holds this value at a premium as we discussed in an earlier post. The importance of the Engineering Section and Maintenance Facilities play an important and timely role through out your game.
Oleg is correct as your ships increase in cost so will your maintenance expenses. We will always consider do I really need to have CT or Jacketed engines on the workhorse’s such as Transports, Freighters etc. You will be surprised the planning needed to maintain a balanced budget.

If you also notice, Resource Producing Facilities have been increased a little, and yes increased resource gathering characteristics will yield the immediate profit, but there is a much broader effect on this value throughout your AIC game in regards to Mining, Farming, and Refining Characteristics not only in Finite but also the Standard starts as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 15:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">BAD idea - SEIV MUST have at least 20 races in pictures folder. If it has less than 20, weird things can happen ! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It has worked totally fine, you move the Races you do not want to play to the not wanted folder, but you are correct; plus your race there must be at least:
3 Races in a Low AI Player game
7 Races in a medium AI Player game
12 Races in a High AI Player game

Other wise you may have a duplicate AI player, but if you have 13 Races at all times in your Race directory you will never have a Problem since that is what the default high Player Settings are set at (12).

Neutrals always should maintain 6, otherwise you may have a duplacate in a Med possably a High Player game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks Oleg, I will add that 13 minimum Races are needed in your Primary [Pictures/Race Folder] http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

REFERENCE

Minimum Computer Player Low Setting := 1
Maximum Computer Player Low Setting := 3
Minimum Computer Player Medium Setting := 4
Maximum Computer Player Medium Setting := 7
Minimum Computer Player High Setting := 8
Maximum Computer Player High Setting := 12

Minimum Neutral Player Low Setting := 1
Maximum Neutral Player Low Setting := 3
Minimum Neutral Player Medium Setting := 2
Maximum Neutral Player Medium Setting := 10
Minimum Neutral Player High Setting := 3
Maximum Neutral Player High Setting := 6

[ October 24, 2003, 15:50: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

All these tests were done with a Neutral Culture, using a Starbase whose cost is exactly 20,000 mineral and 5,000 radioactives. The maintenance reduction of this ship is -50% according to the vehiclesize file.

Here are the results for a few values:
* 100: modified upkeep is 50, base upkeep 100
* 110: modified upkeep is 45, base upkeep 90
* 120: modified upkeep is 40, base upkeep 80
And so on.

So, a point in Maintenance actually decreases the base upkeep by 1. However, as all ships have a reduced upkeep, calculating the efficiency of increasing maintenance compared to increasing resource production will be a bit hard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In the case of the Star Base (the most expensive ship to maintain):
* 110% maintenance costs 1400 points and reduces effective upkeep by 10% (9000 instead of 10000 here).
* 110% resource production costs 750 points and would have the same effect.
* 120% maintenance costs 4400 points and reduces effective upkeep by 20% (8000 instead of 10000 here)
* 120% resource production costs 1500 points. It is still cheaper to increase resource production than increasing maintenance.
* After that, a +10% decrease in maintenance costs 3000 points while a +10% increase in resource productions costs 3200 points. (If you DO need to increase organics as well)

A bit below in the post there were results with the Scout, and they were quite the same. Hmm... My previous results seem to not be that flawed, or the problem lies in my maths skills. Your choice.

And the Star Base is the most expensive ship to maintain, that is to say, the one which is most affected by upkeep reduction. And as you have pointed out JLS, there is an Engineering Section which improves maintenance, thus also reducing the need to increase the Maintenance characteristic. (I am not sure how this one is working though with regards to the formulas)

I don't understand your Last phrase though. How increasing resource production instead of decreasing upkeep could affect a standard game? But you do raise a valid point, as it may be useful to decrease upkeep in finite game in order to save resources. I cannot speak about Finite games though, as I seldom play them, so I will let someone else speak about these ones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EDIT: here is a little, more practical example. Let's say you want to build 10 Star Bases, each requiring 10,000 minerals. You have 10 Space Yards, and each base is built in four turns. (2,500 minerals used each turn) Your mineral production is of 20,000 minerals.

- First case: you have a +20% bonus in resource production. You are now producing 25,000 minerals, enough to build all the Star Bases. When they are built, you will spend 50,000 minerals to maintain them. Meaning your economy will collapse in no time, but that's another problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

- Second case: you have a -20% reduction in upkeep costs. You will have trouble when building the Bases, as you don't have quite enough minerals. (Hmm, it won't happen often in the game, only when you are paying little or no upkeep at all, when maintenance reduction is therefore useless. That is seldom the case, only in the early game or so.) Still, when the stations are built, you will spend 40,000 minerals each turn. You have a deficit of 20,000 mineral each turn, while in the first case, the deficit is 25,000.

- However, for the same price in points or slightly less (I assume you won't increase organic production much), you can have as much as 140 in resource production. You now have 32,000 mineral at your disposal each turn, resulting in a final deficit or 18,000 mineral. That's slighty better than in the second case, where the shortage of minerals was 20,000 minerals.

The bottom line is that maintenance can effectively be more useful than resource production, but it tends to only happen when upkeep is above your income as in the previous example. (And if you want to be really mean, you may increase the upkeep in the example even more. But if your upkeep is twice as important as your income, you are in serious trouble no matter what. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

However, there could be another factor, this time involving trade. But calculating the pros and cons of increasing Political Savvy over reducing maintenance is next to impossible. And perhaps there are circumstances under which upkeep is more important than increased resource production. (Circumstances which do not lead to an economical collapse, contrary to the example above though) Perhaps when you have either a swarm of low cost ships or a few, expensive vessels?

[ October 24, 2003, 16:05: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

That's definitively too long a post. I should try to sum up... Of course, I hope there are no major flaws in my reasoning. (The problem with the Scout ship wasn't probably one, as the effectiveness of increase in maintenance were the same, if you take into accounts percentages. But it wasn't really a bright idea though)

* Maintenance is too expensive cost-wise, especially above threshold, compared to resource production. (Which don't suffer much from the threshold, while the increase in cost for maintenance is... well, threefold)
* Maintenance is only becoming effective (compared to points, as 140 in resource production is more or less as expensive as 120 in Maintenance, if you don't go too high in Organic production) when the upkeep is much higher than your income. Not a good situation to be in for obvious reasons.
* Maintenance will be more useful than resource production if you are relying heavily on trade. Knowing if Political Savvy is more interesting than maintenance decrease depends mostly on the circumstances, as having a single weak partner isn't the same thing as having T&R treaties with 19 huge Empires.
* Maintenance is likely more effective in finite games, but I cannot speak about such games.
* Resource production isn't working in all circumstances. If you are an adept of remote-mining, increasing maintenance can be a wise move. Again it depends on how much of your income comes from remote-mining.
* Maintenance may be more useful under special circumstances. I am trying to see a credible circumstance under which resource production is less useful than increasing maintenance. (Except for remote-mining and trade, although who knows, I might try to delve into these matters as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )
* And finally, what did you mean by your Last few words JLS here?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ October 24, 2003, 16:20: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Also to recapitulate:
Foundationally speaking, the base Maintenance Cost Percentage has not changed from that of any previous Version of AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
So if you always set the maintenance of =0 then there is no effect what so ever. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

However, it will get a little pricy with the additional 200pt cost over 5%, now.
If I am not mistaken; going to 5% maintenance is basically the same as v3.02 and may be even cheaper then AIC Versions before 3.0.
Granted the Characteristic Maintenance Aptitude Threshold is now (5%) in v4.0 where it used to be (10%) with Version 3.02.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have to admit I didn't delve into Maintenance in 3.02. But IIRC, the threshold cost wasn't of 300 points, as it is this change that made me look how Maintenance is handled.

At threshold, the cost is 300 instead of 200 points as you seem to believe. As you have given other values (the ones from PvK mod I believe), I gather they will change? Yes, an increase of "only" 200 after threshold seem more reasonable for me. (But you shall not worry, I will redo my calculations then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

The cost before threshold is fine enough, slightly more expensive than increasing resource production, but nothing important. My main concern is after threshold, when the cost is suddenly of 300 points, which is an increase by threefold.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm, it seems like I also made a mistake as I thought the threshold was at 108. However, the code says it is at 105. My calculations are biaised then, as Maintenance was slighty cheaper in my calculations than in reality.

[ October 24, 2003, 16:48: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I am not sure where you would like to have the maintenance at, but as I said at a 5% gain, you are still about at v3.02 levels.

Again, the Base Maintenance Cost Setting are the same, just the threshold costs up and the percentage has been lowered to 5% as opposed to v3.02 10%.

You may add to your maintenance abilities, Alneyan and possibly gaining a advantage by choosing:
1: The Crystalline Racial Trait that may save you an additional 20% towards in System maintenance costs.
2: The Engineers Culture gains an additional 5 towards Maintenance costs.
3: The AIC alternate Workers Culture gains an additional 6 Towards Maintenance costs.

If that is not enough, there is always the FREE AIC Human Player Starting Option:
(o2) Increased amount of Cultural Centers start on your Home World and the Ability to build many more Resource Settlements on Colonial Worlds
(o3) Excellent Advantage for a much higher proportions of resources in your game over 150% higher

- - -

With AIC v4.0, you may notice an increase of near 40% towards Mineral Gathering Facilities over v3.02 may offset the 5% Maintenance Threshold a bit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I do not know how many defense bases will hold up in the late game against the AI; but a Mobile fleet of just 10 lvl III light cruisers for example:

Please let’s look at the Numbers: an average 10 CL Squadron is the equivalent of
Average Level III CL = 1750 to 2000 per for a Total 17500 to 20000 Minerals.

AIC v4.0...
One Average (good) Medium Breathable Mineral Planet at 105% and all else even. With 16 Mining Settlement @ 600x16= 10,080. With 16 Mining Colonies@750= 12,600 and with 16 Mining Complex= 16,8000, not even counting Planet happiness levels or your Racial Culture Traits.

Now introduce Industrial Centers and Industrial Complex above can increase as high as 30% upon 30% of that total. At level III Mineral Colonies, and a Level II Industrial Center; respectfully may yield 14,000 and with (o2) this may exceed 21,000 plus output of Minerals; from just one Medium Mining Colony in a well Colonized System. A Large Mining Colony would yield a much larger amount etc.

With this said, you only need One Medium and One Small Breathable Mining Colony (not even to count your Home World) to produce the required Minerals for just the Squadron of 10 CLS.

Also to Consider your Trade Dividends with other Empires this is easily obtainable and to also consider there are many more Planets out there for you to still invest in, also to mention asteroid mining, surplus resource trading at your Trade Center or with a direct offer to another Race and/or pure intimidation to gain extra needed recourses.

The Key is to plan your Technology to improve your Economy to be able to afford Ships and to maintain the building of Facilities, Cities and infrastructure to afford more Ships to gain control of more Systems to repeat this process http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 17:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Agreed, when not playing an Organic Race, but with Human Player Option 1 selected =(less Star Liners), the surplus food is only good for trade at your Center or with other Races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 17:46: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

No, I don't have myself trouble with maintenance, I am only saying that the maintenance characteristic is currently too expensive after threshold to be a viable option. If I had a problem with maintenance, you are right I would take Crystalline. (I always forget if it is -20% or -30% maintenance in a given system though) And if you take Crystalline, Engineering Sections, Alternate Worker (+10% production resource AND +6% maintenance) with not too expensive hulls, maintenance is even less a problem.

My main concern is that increasing the maintenance characteristic at the beginning of the game isn't currently worth it, except perhaps in a couple of situations. (Finite games mostly, or a game in which you play a race like the Nomads in P&N for instance, and perhaps other special cases) And it is especially true when you are after threshold, when every single point in Maintenance costs 300 points, while its effects are somewhere between almost nothing and -0,5% of upkeep, depending on the hull.

Currently I would only consider taking high values of mineral production, as there doesn't seem to be a drawback for doing so. (As I am NOT playing a finite game. Such a case is quite different I gather) Although I may consider raising Maintenance as far as the threshold, when it is still cheap.

As I was... well, a bit too harsh I believe, I should say that the situation may be the same in previous Versions of the mod, or in the vanilla game, and that I failed to see it then. (Quite likely) But it was this 300 points after threshold that stroke me the very first time I launched the game. And besides, I can only welcome an attempt to change the way maintenance is handled, compared to the vanilla game. (I am not sure how it was in AIC 3.2. *Grumbles*)

For now, I would support an increase of the cost after threshold for the mineral production (perhaps 100 points?) and a decrease of the cost needed to increase maintenance after threshold, especially as they are other ways to decrease upkeep. (200 points?) Please keep in mind though that these are only rough values, and I have yet to fully consider these proposals, with yet other calculations.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by Alneyan:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed, I posted this info more of a FYI for the new comers to AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly, up to 5% may be worth it. However, beyond 5%, it may be too pricey for most http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">With AIC v4.0, you may notice an increase of near 40% towards Mineral Gathering Facilities over v3.02 may offset the 5% Maintenance Threshold a bit

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As do most of us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We sure have time to consider tweaks for v4.01, but you may may approve of the compensatory additions; with the increased values for the Mining Facilities after all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

=======================================
AI Campaign V4.0 UPGRADE
=======================================

Conceptual:
New Event file with good and bad events; and a Default high zip file that operates at 84% High Event Chance frequency for an ever changing universe. Settings of 100% is Possible without the Heroes Epic or a Cursed starting trait.
Added additional Random events with images.
New 6 varied Event file zip options.
Tweaked Finite Economics Module.
Tweaked AI Balance Module.
Tweaked AI Player Minesweeping - Mottlee
Reduced AI inherent Minesweeping.
Tweaked Strategic and Tactical Fighter Module.

TECH:
New Tech Veneration.
New Tech Immigration.
Tweaked some additional Techs.

Facilities:
New Facilities Debarkation Depot.
New Facilities Heroes Epics and Faith Shrine.
Increased Climate Control Facility values, Alneyan.
Tweaked Nature and some Planet Utilization Facilities costs ~Oleg
Lowered Costs and increased capacity for Resource Storage Facilities ~GLV & Oleg
Further tweaked Planet Utilizations.
Tweaked many Facilities.

Vehicles:
New Frigates now can have 5 Engines.
Reminder that Fast Colonizers also can have 4 Engines.
Revised Freighter Cargo Capacity.
Tweaked small ship maneuverability modifiers for increased specialization.
Human Players Fast Frigates have gained an extra engine.
New Deep Space Supply Base.

Components:
New Ram Scoop Components.
Emergency Propulsion Fix ~ PTF
Corrected some Roman Numerals 3 ~Spoo
Revised Solar Sails ~Spoon
Revised Fighter and Sat Armor ~Oleg
Tweaked many Components.

Intel Projects:
New 2 varied Psychic Intel Zip Options.
Revised and tweaked Psychic Intel Projects and Intel Facilities.

Quadrant Maps:
Open Warp distances for Stellar Manipulation 1 (3to4)(5to6) ~QB
Added/or tweaked Centurion Systems for all quads.


Interface:
Corrected many Typos.

Notes:
Revised order for Random Events ~Oleg
Revised Happiness File ~Fyron
Refugee Images ~Oleg
Some additional AI Player med and late game growth tweaks
Non Psychotic AI anger levels adjusted to be more tolerant to the Human Players with this Version.
Adaptations from PvK's Culture Mod.

Human Player may mix options below.

NEW~Trait Human Player option 1 (O1*) Human Players Advantage: Resulting in a more robust game that requires LESS Micro Management and logistics. Your game will be less dependent on Star Liners with this option.
~Trait Human Player option (O2) Human Player - Advantage for a Balance: That will result in a Better all around Home World.
~Trait Human Player option (O3) Human Player - Excellent Advantage: For a much higher Proportions of Resources (not recommended for Finite Games).
~Trait Human Player option (O4) Human Player - Results in a game requiring more logistics.

~Players may also add (mp1 thru 3) for Handicapping for Multiplayer. MP1-3 May also be used in Solo games, great for a Dual Race Bonus.
~Trait Human Player option (SF) Human Player - Terminal Advantage: Strategic Fighters(gives Fighters System move capabilities)
NEW~Races that you wish not to start your next random game; Place in the [Pictures folder/Race removed from play folder].

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

AIC v4.0 is a stand alone and full upgrade.
Download size (4.07 meg)


(>>> AI Campaign v4.0 <<<)

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Settings for the Default are LOW 20% MED 40% HIGH 60% frequency.

Use your judgment when starting a new game and that at first it may be best to use the Starting Event Frequency :

For your New in Game Starting Options:
Low Player Count (set at Low in game Event Frequency)
Med Player Count (set at Low or med in game Event Frequency)
High Player Count (set at Med or High in game Event Frequency)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, idealistically every characteristic or trait would be equally viable, but that is only... well, an ideal. For now, Maintenance doesn't quite seem to be attractive after threshold, while I would believe that almost all other characteristics can be useful with regards to a specific play style.

I will tell you after some play how I consider minerals compared to previous Versions, and how necessary it seems to raise mineral production. (But at a mere 60 points after threshold, it seems so tempting to raise mineral anyway, even if you won't lack this resource. Minerals are always in shortage in all the other games, so why not having a surplus of minerals to make a change? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

And it goes without saying that, for now, I am the only one who gave my opinion about this subject. So the tweak cannot quite happen now, with only a single voice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">JLS the new Events are fantastic. I started my game at dawn and I haven't stopped playing the game since http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Did I mention your new Events are great. I like the way set up the Medical Teams as an event that gives us a chance to answer a medical crisis before it gets out of control, nice touch.

Warping that now has a new meaning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

RAIDERS: Playing against them is like a game with in a game (sweet)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 20:45: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Hmm... looks like time for AI work for a certain mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For the 8 millionth time... I did not make that file. I have no idea who did, but it was not me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 22:23: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Observing the Extras folder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I assume "default psychic intel" could be implemented in the default intel projects file, or is it different?

And, what does this intel projects file do: "psychic intel HP CI" ?

What's tha difference(s) between default, high and low event frequency files?

Ah, this weekend will become a good one... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think maintenance numbers are fine - if you spend 500 points, upkeep of 1K ship goes from 100 to 95 -> reduction by 5% -> your economy is better of by 5% in minerals, radio and organics. To get the same effect by raising production bonuses, you should spend points to buy 5% in all 3 categories.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Sweet job JLS, looks like I will be playing AIC all week end. Nobody should miss me at work today http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">BAD idea - SEIV MUST have at least 20 races in pictures folder. If it has less than 20, weird things can happen !

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It only works when you are under threshold though. (That is, before 108) After that, you will need 1500 points to have a relative reduction of 5% of the upkeep. So here are the numbers for and after threshold:
* 800 points for a reduction of 0,8% of upkeep, you would need 1000 points for a reduction of 1,0% of the upkeep. A ship costing 100 mineral every turn would then cost 90 mineral.
* 1500 points for a reduction of 0,5% of the upkeep, and you would need 3000 points to have a reduction of 1%. Your ship costing 90 mineral would then need 80 mineral every turn.
You would therefore need 4400 points for having a relative reduction of 20% of the upkeep. (8X100 for 108 and then 12X300 after 108)

On the other hand, you only need 500 points to have a +20% in mineral, organics or radioactives. 1500 points for a global improvement of +20% then, although organics are usually not that useful. These figures are still before threshold, which is at 120. An increase of 1% requires 25 points.

At this moment, you have virtually the same effect for almost 3000 less points.

Now after threshold, at 120:
* You need 60 points to increase your mineral production by 1% => 1200 points for an increase of 20%
* You need 50 points to increase your organics/radioactives production by 1% => 1000 points for an increase of 20%
* 3200 points then for a global increase of 20%, although once again, organics aren't that useful.

So for 4700 points, you have an increase of +40% of your production, while on the other hand, your maintenance costs may be reduced by 20% for 4400 points.

However, I have yet to take into account the cultures. Although it seems like the Worker culture helps more production than maintenance, and so won't change much. Before I digress even more, are my calculations credible for you JLS or am I forgetting something essential? I mean, there may be a flaw in the reasoning. (Silly maths) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EDIT: About your example Oleg, you need 500 points to reduce upkeep by 5% (100 => 95), but you only need 375 points to increase resource production by 5%. So even there, increasing resource production is cheaper. (For instance, in one case, you pay 95 mineral upkeep and produce 100 mineral, in the other case, you pay 100 mineral upkeep and produce 105 mineral)

[ October 24, 2003, 13:02: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Absolutely, I am starting with the Adamant AI Sunday night after football; true a little late but as promised. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I really think you did it; but you now have forgotten, Fyron... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Regardless, that happiness file is great, and was instrumental with the revision of the AIC’s default Human Players Happiness cell http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Make sure to get the latest Version before you start on AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Will do Fyron, I will post at Adamant to confirm the correct DL Version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Observing the Extras folder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Psychic Intel Human Player Counter Intelligence zip file option will help to reinforce the Human Players defense against the AI Players Intel attacks, should the AI Players Psychic Intel effects become to burdensome.

The Intel zip options may be interchanged and counterchanged at any time thru out your game, just reload the save from desktop.
- - -

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All these option zip files are for players that may not be comfortable changing the Data settings, so if they want to experiment with different Event looks; now they can, with a simple zip change that is not unlike the initial AIC mod installation procedure.

AIC v4.0 supplied EVENT Options:
(e1) You may interchange or counterchange any of the Default Events low, med or high at any time, just reload save from desktop.

All three-default Event files are identical in all categories and will have NO in-game irreversible or game stopping events http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
e1a: AIC default LOW Event Frequency zips option; is complete with a settings file at L10%, M20%, H50%.
e1b: AIC DEFAULT Event Frequency zips option; is complete with a settings file at L20%, M40%, H60%.
e1c: AIC default HIGH Event Frequency zips option; is complete with a settings file at L30%, M60%, H84%.

I feel 84% is the frequency maximum for the extreme default settings files and it make a nice fit with the Heroes Epic +15 CBEC = 99% chance for that system, if you can believe in those Heroes, Idols and Gods mumbo-jumbo stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

- - -
Also supplied for the Players that wish to have added deadlier events:

(e2) AIC Events Planet destroyed zip option: L10%, M20%, H50%.
In addition, once this is added to an on going game you really should not interchange back to a default Events of option (e1abc). Knowing that there is still a possible Planet Destroyed in the mix and that cell (34) may need to be called again in about Time Till Completion := 10 . So basically, if you where to go back to defaults from a greater option and Last 11 turns I would think you are now good to go, with out error for the remainder of that game.

(e3) AIC Events Star destroyed zip option: L05%, M20%, H40%.
In addition, once this is added to an on going game you really should not interchange back to a default Events of option (e1abc)or (e2). Knowing that there is still a possible Planet Destroyed and Star destroyed in the mix and that cell (34 and or 35) may need to be called again in about Time Till Completion := 30 . So basically, if you where to go back to defaults from this greater option and Last 31 turns I would think you are now good to go, with out error for the remainder of that game.

== == ==

(e4) Stock se4 events must start new game zip option: L05%, M10%, H25%.
The se4 Stock Events file may be added, however this must be for a new game only. If you add (e1), (e2) or (e3) chances are you will error at some point in your game due too; all cells not even close to that of the default Event files and TTC READ ERROR will occur in games beyond 19turns.

== == ==

Inclusive of the above, you may use any Event option when starting a new game…
You may interchange or counterchange any of the Default Events low, med or high at any time, just reload save from desktop.
In addition you may add EVENT option (e2)or(e3) to (e1)without error fear.
You also may add EVENT option (e3) too (e2) also without error fear.

= = =

Whos is on first. No He is at third. Who is on first? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ October 25, 2003, 06:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great, glad you are enjoying your game.

What FREE Human Player starting traits did you choose?
= = =
NEW~Trait Human Player option 1 (O1*) Human Players Advantage: Resulting in a more robust game that requires LESS Micro Management and logistics. Your game will be less dependent on Star Liners with this option.
~Trait Human Player option (O2) Human Player - Advantage for a Balance: That will result in a Better all around Home World.
~Trait Human Player option (O3) Human Player - Excellent Advantage: For a much higher Proportions of Resources (not recommended for Finite Games).
~Trait Human Player option (O4) Human Player - Results in a game requiring more logistics.

~Players may also add (mp1 thru 3) for Handicapping for Multiplayer. MP1-3 May also be used in Solo games, great for a Dual Race Bonus.
~Trait Human Player option (SF) Human Player - Terminal Advantage: Strategic Fighters(gives Fighters System move capabilities)
= = =

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes I did make note of your mention's http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This is a result form Oleg's observation that we loose way to many Colonies to: Level 2 and Level 3 se4 Plagues.

If you noticed with AIC v4.0; Medical teams WILL prevent a Medical Crisis at a Colony; providing the Releif ship arrives in time to apply the necessary medical treatments.

~TIP~ You may want to always maintain a Medical Team or two on Stand-by for any Colony that may become in need http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
- - -

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed, with v4.0 default events and Event Frequency setting are High and you have a Moderate Player Count in your game: Your Warp Opener could be very busy keeping the warps open.

And yes there will be an ever changing universe with some apposite conditions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
- - -

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is adopted from the Eye candy MOD and really comes into Play again when some apposite conditions are in effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~TIP~ You may want to always maintain a Security Fleet of about 4-12 inexpensive Scout Class vessels at the ready and available for the full use of any Governors discretion, for the welfare of that Colony http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

= = =
Thanks GLV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 25, 2003, 23:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is a great addition to AIC, all that may be interested just copy the downloaded Dsgnname folder to your AIC directory http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

(> Design Names <)

[ October 25, 2003, 11:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">JLS its ok to move:
Cryslonite
Fazrah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
Krill
Piundon
XiChung http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

This leaves 15 races in the RACES folder.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I perfer low Events, the way I understand it now with the defalt low is 20% - med is 40% and high is 60%.

I plan on playing a NO-WARP game with med players and event frequancy set to 40% med setting.
Is this what your suggested settings?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What does this do?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I liked the way v3 was, is there much change?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am going to use the Cent Systems map, for my no warp game. Is there any changes to the other maps that I should consider?

Did you add the FQM optional maps in v4.0?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am going with options (1) and (3) and with 15 kind races at no AI bonus. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

v4.0 download is now complete. I will let you know how I do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ October 25, 2003, 13:49: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

My question has to do with these:

Also supplied for the Players that wish to have added deadlier events:

(e2) AIC Events Planet destroyed zip option: L10%, M20%, H50%.
In addition, once this is added to an on going game you really should not interchange back to a default Events of option (e1abc). Knowing that there is still a possible Planet Destroyed in the mix and that cell (34) may need to be called again in about Time Till Completion := 10 . So basically, if you where to go back to defaults from a greater option and Last 11 turns I would think you are now good to go, with out error for the remainder of that game.

(e3) AIC Events Star destroyed zip option: L05%, M20%, H40%.
In addition, once this is added to an on going game you really should not interchange back to a default Events of option (e1abc)or (e2). Knowing that there is still a possible Planet Destroyed and Star destroyed in the mix and that cell (34 and or 35) may need to be called again in about Time Till Completion := 30 . So basically, if you where to go back to defaults from this greater option and Last 31 turns I would think you are now good to go, with out error for the remainder of that game.

Both zips have a events.txt and settings.txt, how if I do E2 then do E3 does E3 not get over written? what if I do it the other way around, E3 and E2? Are you supposed to say:

Leave event frequency at default, upgrade to E2 and then Upgrade to E3. E3 containing E1,E2,E3? I am just a little confused.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">JLS why did you change the AIC Maintenance threshold?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree Herc, I read the JLS post to PTF and I was totally http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

The file "Star Destroyed" include both the events "Star Destroyed" and "Planet Destroyed", so you don't have to add both. The file "Planet Destroyed" is only there if you would like to see your planets threatened, but not the whole system at once if the star collapses.

Here are the event chances for these two files:
- For "Star Destroyed":
* Low event chance: 5%
* Medium event chance: 20%
* High event chance: 40%
- For "Planet Destroyed":
* Low event chance: 10%
* Medium event chance: 25%
* High event chance: 60*

If you want to change these values, you will have to edit the file: settings.txt after you have applied one of these two files. The lines to change are these ones:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Although I wouldn't advice you to increase even more the odds for such catastrophic events, but if you want to, feel free to do so. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lastly, if you put either Planet Destroyed or Star Destroyed, you shouldn't remove these events and so you shouldn't change the files before the end of the game. As there is a warning before a Planet or a Star is destroyed (10 turns or 30 turns), removing these events once they are in the game is risky. An AI Empire may have been stricken by such an event, and has only received the warning but the event is still NOT finished. If you remove the event, the game will have problems when the event is applied.

In short, if you want to use either "Star Destroyed" or "Planet Destroyed", do *not* alter the events file during the game.

Hopefully, my post will make sense. Hopefully.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS, Why did you remove Planetory Lore from Organic Tech. ??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

I think it was a very nice touch. Something I can comprehend as a natural feature of the organic tech.

If you think it was unbalancing, increase the cost and/or link to the parallel progress in Planetory Engenering. But please, restore this facility, I really like it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ October 25, 2003, 14:39: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Makes perfect sence now - thanks Alneyan

I have been using the default files supplied with AIC v4.0 at HIGH frequency with the medium Computer Players and I can’t say it enough the events are just totally awesome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

JLS just got hit with a level 1 plauge at my Home World and lost about 34 colonists about three turns went by before my medical ship came to its rescue. oops I guess the BSY could of done it in 2 turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif I have never seen a HW get hit before this.

I like that you reduced the SM techs, have you decided lowering the open warp component?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I just started playing dual races and I liked this faciliy to JLS --- WE WANT IT BACK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What does this do? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To sum up, this is a base that can be built in deep space, and which allows you to resupply your ships in space, if you make a fleet with the "base" and wait until next turn I believe. It can be found after some research with the other ships. (It is regarded as being a ship by the game since you cannot make a fleet with bases by default) I hope I didn't spoil too much when talking about this novelty, as its functioning isn't too intuitive because of SEIV limitations.

About this vessel JLS, part of its description says "Auto refueling is 200kt min. per month in most Systems." I have to admit I didn't really understand that part. Especially as the ability for this description is a regular "Offense Minus". Sure, it is a minor detail as you can see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 25, 2003, 14:51: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Ok, I tried "human bonus #1' trait - the one that gives free replicant center.

IT WAS A HORROR !!! Instead of "reducing micromanaging" I was plunged into the worst micromanagement game of my life ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

You see, I am an Evil Overlord of my Empire. every time my HW is 2000/2000, I'm loosing 1M of obidient slaves ! - NO WAY, I must build MORE starliners to clear the room for newborns...

Very soon I had an ungodly fleet of starliners shipping people. Next, I got moons with 100/100 population and small domed planets with 200/200 - now i must build dozens more ships to solve the population crisis http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Very soon it was a complete nightmare and micro-hell. Then I got lucky and conquire alien planet with other-atm. (CO2) breathers. Now if I spread them around, they will grow like bugs and I won't need any stinking Atm. converters, I can simply clone more aliens. but it need even more starliners and micromanagemnt.
-----
Finally, I gave up. This option is a pure EVIL if you reaaly care about your empire. NEVER MORE ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif