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yeah, i know what he is talking about.

I still do not make them. If I am playing a horrible research race and take drain, i will trade for them. But if I play a race with d mages, i prefer to spend my d gems on summons/combat spells.

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They're quite amazing with hammers. I forge them all the time. Especially if you had a race with drain, gives you a huge boost after you reach construction 4.

Jazzepi

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Access to skull mentors + hammers (+ lightless lanterns) = free design points as I'll take drain almost every time.

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I agree. Especially if you use mentors to accelerate yourself into the lanterns. It's difficult to find a use for fire gems beyond lanterns, charcoal shields, flames from afar, elemental armor, and firebrand.

Jazzepi

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Look at it this way X, for 7d + 3f I've just "summoned" an extra two high end mages. One mage is now doing the research of 3 so I can send 2 out marauding while my research stays the same. What can you summon and equip for 10 gems that's more effective than 2 high end mages?

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Well, you're not usually replacing high end mages with Skull Mentors, because you don't usually summon high end mages just to do research. You're replacing (or just adding to) a few gold purchased cheap researchers.

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I realize i am in the minority on the issue. I liberally use the lightless lanterns. But 12 d gems gives me a banelord.

Would I trade a banelord, who can, with constr 6 gear, kill anything in the game(potentially), for 10 research points?

If you look at the game we are playing against each other now Baalz, I was a research leader most of the way-or close enough as it made no difference, and I did not forge 1 research booster the entire game.

But favoring your view, Ermor, in the same game, took 2 drain and with the use of skulls was able to stay competitive in research. But he also had to pay for a double 9 bless.

But not every race gets castle bought troops as deadly as MA Ermor.

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But that's a banelord with constr 6 gear. How many gems worth of gear to make use of him? That's what you need to compare. Not just the chassis.

And the earlier the investment in research items, the better it is. You can have Skull Mentors long before Banelords and Constr 6 gear for them. Spending some gems on boosting research may get you those geared up Banelords faster than saving the gems would.

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Wow you take Drain?? I'm shocked. I dont think I've ever taken it.

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Yep, obviously this is a great oversimplification, but if you do accept my previous suggestion that 10 gems = 2 extra combat casters (which makes sense if your mages are constrained by your number of castles and you have a research target) then an outfitted banelord is more like 6 extra casters. Obviously everything has its use, but 6 banefire/enslave mind/gift of heaven/thunderstrike spamming mages can most certainly trump a decked out banelord in lots of situations.