.com.unity Forums - SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments

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- - SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45014)

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Andy and I have exchanged some ideas on this and we will explore it further in the coming months but we really need a break for a while.

This started out as an idea to apply to advanced SPA systems but may apply to arty like the M77A2

What I need to investigate is if these systems using GPS targeting have the ability to fire at a target, scoot to a new firing position, set up and range on that exact same target with no delay after stopping. Related to that is the time it takes to set up an M777 in a new position

What this could mean is with a simple entry of 100 to arty FC , like SPAA gets radar, that would give Arty GPS targeting which in game terms would mean that guns with that rating would not lose the Barrage target lock they do now when they move. If they had fired once they get to the new location they would be able to pick up the targets they had locked in before they moved

The AI with those weapons systems would be given a much shorter countdown when picking new targets

As I said it's a WIP ( but not so much right now............)

What was most interesting in that MT article was

1/ Canada was the first nation to employ the M777 in combat ( news to me...)

and

2/ "most of the damage inflicted on the Taliban was reportedly caused by only two guns."

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

And related to that

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...zers-wd5jvthll

Quote:

17 hours ago — American howitzers have begun shelling Russian positions while Ukrainian soldiers have received jammers to shoot down enemy reconnaissance ...

and.........

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...=705954e36710n

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1652174296

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

This nice icon is great :up:

2S22 is know by nickname Bogdana

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/bogdana.htm

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

"The M777 requires three minutes to emplace, and two to three minutes to displace. The maximum rate of fire for the M777 is 4 rounds per minute for up to 2 minutes; the sustained rate of fire is 2 rounds per minute."

"Indirect fire for the M777A1 and A2 is usually aimed using the digital fire control system. It provides rapid and accurate ballistic computation, navigation, pointing, and self-location capabilities, which allows the M777A1/A2 to perform effective fire missions rapidly, reducing the amount of time it must be emplaced in a given location. "

Using "military" GPS you're talking about a 2-3 seconds or less for target reacquisition time provided the target is still being "lased" and for the piece to reposition itself. So, assume 3 minutes to displace/+ ~2-3 minutes to move at least 100 meters or more based on terrain/+ 3 minutes to emplace.

So about 8-9 minutes. Real world we'd be using Counter Battery Jamming equipment, so you might not have to move right away, which the player can also chose to do with them on the map. And off map doesn't "shoot and scoot" anyway.

Again, from and in paras 14 & 15 ...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m777.htm

I'll see if I can find something from the army side.

It is worth noting...
"A crew of 8 is required to operate the M777 normally. It can also be operated by as few as 5 men in an emergency, but with a significantly reduced rate of fire. Some publications have stated that the ability of the M777 to be fired by only 5 personnel is unprecedented for a 155 mm howitzer, but the preceding M198 could also be operated as such. "

I'm hopefully going to relax the rest of this evening and enjoy my bonus night with you know who after of course a relaxing walk.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

WW2 25 pounder

Quote:

Accepted rate of fire was 5 rounds per minute, but average thoughout the firestorm in Normandy was 12 rpm, with one documented case in 4th Field of an incredible 17 rounds fired by one gun in one minute

I know the background to that story and the crew ( Canadian ) was very motivated to set the record

Now that was a much smaller shell but 12-17 rounds per gun is a lot of hurt especially when you consider that a commonwealth FOO had the power to order a fire mission barrages beyond army level

Quote:

Multi-battery Concentrations
Targets engaged by two or more batteries were called 'concentrations' in British terminology. Until 1942 the procedures for concentrations against impromptu targets were not particularly slick, although there was a choice of several methods developed from the mid-1920's onwards, and concentrations of several RFA brigades had been achieved in 1914. Nevertheless, in May 1940 a British regiment destroyed a refueling panzer battalion in what is generally recognised as the first successful use in war of a wireless controlled concentration on an impromptu target. However, in 1941 Brig HJ Parham, the CRA of 38 Division, invented and tested new procedures. These culminated in demonstrating a 144 gun concentration against an impromptu target within 5 minutes of the target being called. In mid-1942 XIII Corps conducted further trials and new doctrine was issued is September that year. These concentrations were known as Mike (regiment), Uncle (division), Victor (corps), William (army) and Yoke (AGRA) targets and always initiated by the radio call “Mike Target, Mike Target, Mike Target” (or Uncle, etc) that galvanised CPs and guns to action.

Any observer could request concentrations, however, some observers including Air OPs, were authorised to order them. It was usually Standing Instructions that a BC had this authority for his regiment, troop commanders were given it as required. BCs and COs of medium batteries and regiments were often CRA’s or CCRA’s Representatives and authorised to order the divisional or corps artillery and have communications on the divisional or corps artillery radio net. This authority was sometimes given to field BCs and observers, and there were sometimes CAGRA Representatives (BCs and COs) with similar authority.

Just saying... different time, different guns but as the adage goes "artillery conquers infantry occupies"

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazejos (Post 852558)

This nice icon is great :up:

2S22 is know by nickname Bogdana

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/bogdana.htm

\

Thanks and 4940 is perfect for the Russian 2S43 Malva

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

Besides the fact that the Pentagon confirmed last week early that at least 80% of the M777A2 155mm WE sent them are in Ukrainian hands.

Also, on the news earlier tonight I briefly saw a Ukrainian crew firing their M77A2 155mm.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...75513249ba2db6
(Article carried by MSN and Written by FORBES.)

About HIMARS/THAAD it is nothing more than an item on the Ukrainian wish list.

But there will be doubters out here, so I give you the following from the 13th. Before I do this is about what our army wants and not what the Ukraine wants. Here's the title from ref. 2 "Ukraine War Validates Pursuing Very Long-Range Artillery Army Says" we're the ones that need them more.
https://defence.az/ru/news/157092/lo...issile-systems
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ays/ar-AAXeICZ
(Article carried by MSN and Written by The Drive)

Additional:
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/ht.../20220515.aspx

The irresponsible ...
We have been reenforcing our deployed troops with them and our NATO partners very recently but that's the extent of it. That is of course you want to believe these guys (I was being nice here as some other descriptors come to mind.) though the page 2 comments make me feel REALLY good to be in this Forum-THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
https://gameruprising.to/index.php?t...ukraine.37548/

I have a Lunar Eclipse to watch with the Grandson and CINCLANTHOME!!
So have a good night!!

Moon is RED gotta go!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

So, in plain English have we (the US) or have we not given them MLRS? I ask because another gaming forum says yes, yet the other articles don't say yes for the US but that Poland and Czech have, so which is it?

Re: SP and SPAA Developments

No we have not given them (HIMARS/THAAD/M270 MLRS) to the Ukrainians NOR can those countries that have them give them to the Ukraine WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION. NATO countries have given them GRADs and other similar Soviet/Russian MLRS equipment that the Ukraine already operates.

Case in point: Denmark had to be given permission from Germany before they could send their PHZ 2000 SPA to the Ukraine which was given and are in country or will be by this week. Also, you may have seen that Germany is already training crews to operate the 7 units they're sending.

As my main refs have indicated, we are taking what's happening in the Ukraine onboard in realizing that we need more of those weapons not only to counter Russia but China as well.

You will EASILY find that NO MANIFEST of weapons we've sent even indicates that HIMARS or THAAD has been shipped to the Ukraine.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/prod...and%20national
https://thehill.com/policy/internati...ines-military/
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...e-for-ukraine/
(The longer-range artillery system is the M777A2.)
https://www.defense.gov/News/Release...ce-to-ukraine/

I believe my work is done here for now.

You can put those "game sites" in the same can I put the "irresponsible" labeled one from my last post.

The Lunar Eclipse was awesome and the company unsurpassed. :)

Regards,
Pat
:capt: