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Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

Hardy Industrialist:
I only object to the �Must Have� label. As Geo says, it�s all a matter of playingstyle. Personally, putting those 1000 points in resource production or research, I can outproduce, outresearch and outbuild what I could have done with using those points for HI.

I do not suggest taking no construction bonuses at all, I usually take somewhere between 10 and 20 %, but I never take Hardy Industrialist (expect in full tech games). Paying attention to detail there is no problem having enough SY capacity in all stages of the game to handle any available resource production.

Quote:

Fast construction vastly improves the performance of your empire, as you can get more ships built in less time. This allows overwhelming of enemies (or keeping up if they have the same construction rates), replacing lost forces quickly, etc. Why do you think the Space Yard technology is so expensive?

Actually: Fast construction will let you have less ships built in less time.
Late game example: Empire 1 is Hardy Industrial and have 500 K Minerals/turn available for building new ships. Average SY constructs with 5 K, Empire 1 can start 100 ships and have them ready in 8 turns. Empire 2 has spent more points on mining/research and have 550 K Minerals/turn (usually it will be more of a difference as computers and stuff will be ready earlier) available. SY is only 4000 on average. Empire 2 can have 137 ships ready in 10 turns.

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Also, if you go with Monoliths (for a vastly superior economy in the long run), you can get them built in 3 turns at planets with a Space Yard II and 1 M population with just a 34 percent bonus to SY rates, whereas you can never get them built in less than 4 turns with no bonus in SY rates without lots of population (2 billion in fact) on the planet. A 12 percent bonus will let you build them in 3 turns with Space Yard III, but those are much more expensive to research. Please tell me how that does not improve the performance of your empire?

It�s again a matter of playing style, but personally I always jump directly from SYI to SYIII. If focusing the extra punch of the fast producing/researching empire on SY�s, It can have SYIII ready by the time the HI empire have SYII. And i do suggest taking enough bonus to be able to build Monoliths (with SYIII) in 3 turns.

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Furthermore, higher SY rates help you get stellar manipulation ships built a lot faster, which is definitely a big plus. Say the ship costs 100k minerals. You are building at a planet with 1 M pop and a SY III (for simplicity of calculations). That will take you 34 turns with no SY bonus (100k/3k). But with that 45% bonus to SY rates, you can build it in 23 turns (100k/4350).

True, Building those hugely expensive things you only need a few of, is an example where the HI empire has an advantage. But again, the �better� empire can start construction of those first ships a few turns earlier, and will also have more valuables to waste on retrobuilding.

So, IMHO:
Hardy Industrialist: Definitely not a game winner, but not a total waste either.

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

Happiness can be dropped to 50 or 51 ( Asmala style ) and this will not affect anything if you build troops on every planet.

Which frees up another 800 points for otherstuff.

This has been tested. I would like the min max to be updated with this info.

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Happiness can be dropped to 50 or 51 ( Asmala style ) and this will not affect anything if you build troops on every planet.

Which frees up another 800 points for otherstuff.

This has been tested. I would like the min max to be updated with this info.

Interesting. A tiny domed planet only has room for 20 troops. Are you quite sure that is sufficent to prevent rioting on those worlds?

EDIT: Also it occurs to me that this strategy could be devastating if you happened to start close to anoter empire. A few relativly minor battle losses early on before you manage to research troops and you are chipped beef on toast. It may be the risk here is not worth the 800 racial points you get in return.

[ October 20, 2003, 16:30: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

If you drop your happiness to 50%, you need only five troops to each planet to nullify the effect.

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

Quote:

Originally posted by Asmala:
If you drop your happiness to 50%, you need only five troops to each planet to nullify the effect.

So the five troops nullifies the effect of dropping your happiness level, but what is the number of troops needed to account for battle losses? The five troop garrison will be the minimum level needed to keep the people happy when nothing bad is happening. But, for example, if at normal happiness levels your planet needs 20 troops to keep from rioting when things go badly, by lowering your happiness level you will need 25 troops, more then will fit on a tiny domed planet. I don't know the answer, I am simply asking if this has been taken into account.

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

geo this is in context to the min max system that we have here.

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
geo this is in context to the min max system that we have here.

I understand the context Tesco. My point is that I am not convinced that the risks of lowering your happiness characteristic are not worth the 800 racial points you get back for it. Unless you can show that there is an easy method to overcoming those risks I don't suggest incorporating such an idea into a generic min/max suggestion. Simply saying, "build five more troops on each planet" isn't going to work if there isn't room for five more troops.

At least if Fyron is going to add this he should put in a strongly worded warning that any sort of battle losses will potentially cause great havoc within the empire.

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

I for one never fiddle with the happiness or environmental settings. To risky in the event an enemy fleet takes one of your worlds.

Troops are great, but you need a whole hell of a lot of them, as well as ships in orbit, and UPC III to keep the peace if you use a lower happiness setting.

I agree, a strongy worded warning should be included with any info governing the reduction of happiness to gain points.

Basically put, playing with happiness is bad mojo IMHO.

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

Funny that noone had any objections/suggestions when I first put this on the web some 2 months ago... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

that's because people spot problems based on time.