.com.unity Forums - Map editor

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- Space Empires: IV & V (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)

- - Map editor (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=10889)

The grid is specifically limited because it has to be for the game to generate a grid-pattern of systems every time. Spiral has a limit on how many it will place in the "spiral", and then it places the rest around the edges of the map. There are only so many border squares, so you might not be able to get 255 systems on spiral type maps.

I think (but who cares, right?) Shrapnel made a mistake there. Why? OK, here is why:

Look at the success of DOOM/DOOM II. Look at the success of Mechwarrior. (and how many other games that I don't even know about) I believe one of the reasons is the ability to make one's own maps...especially in DOOM. They released the specs on mapmaking and several people made free map creating programs...I used one to make many many levels myself. It was as much fun as playing the game. AND, playing over modem over "home-made" maps by people all over the place made the game ALWAYS have a "new" touch.

Now, imagine if Shrapnel and invested time into making a REAL map creator (instead of a map editor) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif .

With a few features like these:

(1) Mark and copy several systems in a mirrored fashion;
(2) Positioning warp points between 2 systems with drag (the warp point) and drop (while showing both systems in separate windows);
(3) BMP images to chose from instead of guessing at what each of the pictures looked like;
(4) Wizards for planet creation...that walked you through the various steps...quickly and easily with pulldowns;
(5) Don't like where you put a planet? Drag it to a new location;
(6) Don't like where you put the system? Drag it to a new location (warp points updated automatically);
(7) Library of planets definitions (you like one you created? Store it and retrieve it at any time and plop it down where you want it;
(8) Choosable ruins...decide what you want to be found;
(9) Cross-check routine (like Frontpage has) for any warp connection glitches;
(10) Right-click properties editor for various items (planets, warp points, storms, etc.);
(11) Click on a warp line and delete it;
(12) Statistics report (how many planets, which types, which atmospheres, resource percentages, etc...to be used to decide on play balance).

I think the inclusion of an editor like that could have more than made up for the investment in creating it with sales to people who, like the thousands of people I saw making DOOM maps, like that added dimension to the game. After all, who wants to be limited to what the program generates when it can't even space players on the map correctly? Who wouldn't want an easy way to make tournement maps that are play-balanced?

OK, I'm done ranting. (I just hate it when a great game could have been even greater!)

Quote:

Originaly posted by kamog
Spiral Arm: BAD! Most of the stars form a rectangle on the outer edge of the quadrant window, with not many stars in the middle.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To avoid the systems placed around the edge I Think you need to change
Maximum systems := 160 or less and then experiment.

Can someone correct me here? It has been a while since I did this.

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:

Now, imagine if Shrapnel and invested time into making a REAL map creator (instead of a map editor) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif .

With a few features like these:

(1) Mark and copy several systems in a mirrored fashion;
(2) Positioning warp points between 2 systems with drag (the warp point) and drop (while showing both systems in separate windows);
(3) BMP images to chose from instead of guessing at what each of the pictures looked like;
(4) Wizards for planet creation...that walked you through the various steps...quickly and easily with pulldowns;
(5) Don't like where you put a planet? Drag it to a new location;
(6) Don't like where you put the system? Drag it to a new location (warp points updated automatically);
(7) Library of planets definitions (you like one you created? Store it and retrieve it at any time and plop it down where you want it;
(8) Choosable ruins...decide what you want to be found;
(9) Cross-check routine (like Frontpage has) for any warp connection glitches;
(10) Right-click properties editor for various items (planets, warp points, storms, etc.);
(11) Click on a warp line and delete it;
(12) Statistics report (how many planets, which types, which atmospheres, resource percentages, etc...to be used to decide on play balance).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope someone from Shrapnel is reading this and takes serious attention to your comments! After making the Star Trek mod map, I can say that the map editor is seriously flawed and your suggestions would be outstanding.

Shrapnel has nothing to do with the development of SE. They just publish it. Malfador Machinitations is 100% in charge of the SE games, both in code and in concept.

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Shrapnel has nothing to do with the development of SE. They just publish it. Malfador Machinitations is 100% in charge of the SE games, both in code and in concept.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the clarification Fyron, but you get the picture.

Even with fewer systems, the "Spiral Arm" quadrant doesn't look like a spiral, or even part of a spiral. It looks sort of like a spider web.

Actually... it sometimes looks like a spiral galaxy, but not too often, sadly.

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
I think the inclusion of an editor like that could have more than made up for the investment in creating it with sales to people who, like the thousands of people I saw making DOOM maps, like that added dimension to the game. After all, who wants to be limited to what the program generates when it can't even space players on the map correctly? Who wouldn't want an easy way to make tournement maps that are play-balanced?

OK, I'm done ranting. (I just hate it when a great game could have been even greater!)

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AMEN!

edit: nevermind below. I just assumed that and went with it.

Quick question: When using a pre-designed map, with specific positions for player empires, in the "Player Settings" section of the new game startup, do I UNCHECK the "allowed to start in same sys" AND the "evenly distributed throughout quadrant" boxes?

thanks,

Alarik

[ January 10, 2004, 01:16: Message edited by: alarikf ]