Re: Soul gate
 

Ha, Ok Norfleet, I made a mistake about AE Mages - I compared them only on paper and didn't correctly read the AE Unit List http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif .
So AE magic is on par with SG magic. For high-level commander summoning, it not that hard to give a couple Dusk Elders a Skull Staff to get Senators, then a Skull face to have Consuls. And anyway you can have a 6+ Death Pretender to help.

Pocus,
SG units are breakable, but not easily, their base morale is 16+, and they are immune to fear. OTOH they create much fear themselves ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Their MR is good too at 13+ (except Disp Spirits at 11). And it gets increased by Unholy prayers ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Soul gate
 

Norfleet,
I've only a very light knowledge of AE. Maybe they're more effective in early expansion (but even so SG is not that bad at it).
However what struck me is that the SG units are efficient throughout the game and whatever the enemies are , whereas Soulless and Longdead hordes are pretty weak and useless as soon as big units appear.
I'd try AE soon in a new game to have a better understanding of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Soul gate
 

I'm using Soul Gate Ermor in an MP game right now. It hasn't gotten far enough for a real test of my strategies there yet, but I played an SP game with all the AIs switched on to test my design and general plans.

It was a lot of fun. Marignon gave me trouble, as one would think, but they were really the only ones. Poor Rl'yeh fell over like a house of soggy wet playing cards, and Ulm's black plate infantry made for some lovely statuary after being hit with strength stealing and paralysis.

I didn't feel it was overpowered (Marignon still hurts, and Arcosephale would have been much more of a bear if I hadn't gotten very lucky in their getting boxed in early) but it was a lot of fun. One of my favorite themes now, in fact!

Re: Soul gate
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed, it's perfectly DOABLE, but a skull staff, and a skull face, won't really be available until you've done some research. Combined with the cost, it's not something you can bolt out of the gate with, like AE. I've tried both SG and AE: AE is definitely a stronger starter. On a larger map, one that isn't nauseatingly claustrophobic, SG will probably catch up by midgame: I've found that the paralyzing spirits are very effective at stopping Doom Horrors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Soul gate
 

Wow. That sounds interesting. I have only played AE so far since I thought SG was just a weaker Version of AE. Now I definitely have to try it.

PS: Playing as the undead had never much appeal to me until I bought this game that is. Ermor's themes add the right flavour IMO.

Re: Soul gate
 

Whenever a patch appears that makes paralysis temporary, SG (and, for that matter, anybody else that might make heavy use of Dispossessed Spirits; T'ien C'hi comes to mind) will be weakened a notch.
SG is nice in a variety of ways, although they lose the free longdead horsemen and KotUS. If memory serves, that leaves them with no reanimated/auto-gen cavalry or sacred non-commanders (Wailing Ladies still exist as a national summons, but aren't cheap.) And the ubiquitous Prot-0 is worrisome (flaming arrows, wide-area battle magic).

Re: Soul gate
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, I'm not so sure that would be the case. At least according to my experience with T'ien Ch'i the dispossessed spirits keep attacking the paralyzed units until those die, after that moving to new targets. That way, a limited time for paralyzation won't be a much of an issue to the spirits as they are still there hacking away when the duration ends. Were they to wander about paralyzing all they encounter the lessened duration would be a bigger hinderance. (ok, barring cases like that heat aura of Abysians which seems to kill the spirits after some time and so on)

As it is now I repeatedly see the strange situation where my living troops are packed behind a group of spirits hacking at paralyzed enemies whose comrades are packed behind the paralyzed guys. Everything's at standstill until the first line dies or enough units leak around the paralyzed guys. Well, no matter, I think the spirits are still doing quite fine.

Or then I just need more practice in troop placement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Soul gate
 

Maybe placing the living troops at the flanks (using the "attack rear" command) of the spirits would mean that they have their own targets to work on. Of course they then would have to fight enemies who can fight back.

[ March 09, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Starfighter08 ]

Re: Soul gate
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nah, that's not going to happen. The spirits will keep whomping on the paralyzed guys anyway, and they'll just get paralyzed more.

Re: Soul gate
 

Depends on target MR. A high-MR unit is far less likely to be re-paralyzed during a short-term paralysis. They almost certainly won't counter a Doom Horror with an antimagic talisman, for instance... or even a decent-MR unit boosted by Antimagic or similar.