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Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Ermor [ashen empire/soul gate] are very potent versus the computer AI as it does not recognize the threat of the population killing dominion. In play versus humans they would be much less potent, as others have pointed out.

It is my personal opinion that the Ermor [ashen empire/soul gate] should be Banned from multi-player. Not because they are potent, but becuase they are unfair to the players that start adjacent. Nations starting next to such Ermors are at a huge disadvantage since they are near a population "dead zone". They end up with much less resource in the world near them, not due to anything they did, but due to the bad luck of their starting position. It's such a glaring disadvantage that I'd rather not see these Ermor's in multiplay at all.

Ermor [broken empire] is an excellent nation that combines very good troops with some astral and death magic. It is a very capable nation that is worth exploring.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

In my Mictlan AAR, Ulm has so far kicked both Ermor's and Pythium's asses, at the same time. Well, Ermor is still around in Africa, but it's missing its capital. And this has been my experience so far : but impossible AI's all around, and suddenly Ermor doesn't do better than the others...

As for death pretenders ruling the arena, I find they usually fall when faced with a decent prophet, and somebody is bound to send one...

6 priests, even basic ones, in an army, will kick undead big time. Or lots af archers. Or even enough heavy infantry, if you use morale boosters. Or fire magic. I hate Ermor, but because it destroys my (future) territories, not because it is harder to beat, at least with an AI.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Hi all,
I see in the manual that the "fear" bless bonus for Death-9 is only available to undeads. Is this a mistake ?
Cheers

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

No mistake. They do not get life after death on the other hand.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Level 9 deaht blessing gives greater fear to unholy troops (or undead unholy, if there is difference), and only fear to other blessable troops. I think level 9 in death gives more fear than just the level 8 blessing for all blessed units, but am not sure.

Someone should research that!

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:

It is my personal opinion that the Ermor [ashen empire/soul gate] should be Banned from multi-player.

You can always choose not to join such a game if it makes you so unconfortable.

Not because they are potent, but becuase they are unfair to the players that start adjacent. Nations starting next to such Ermors are at a huge disadvantage since they are near a population "dead zone". They end up with much less resource in the world near them, not due to anything they did, but due to the bad luck of their starting position. It's such a glaring disadvantage that I'd rather not see these Ermor's in multiplay at all.

This can only happen if the Ermorian player is very agressive both in design & playing style, which is definitely not always the case.

Besides, even if that was the case, it is not so different from starting near an agressive neighbour bent on killing you in a war that is going nowhere, or starting in a rotten location with many nearby neighbours with strong & weather extreme scales, or in an area surrounded by the poorest provinces, or by the sea with agressive water nations in the game...would you also ban Caelum, Abysia, Miasma C'tis, Atlantis & R'lyeh to avoid some of those chances?

A couple Dom I examples that prove wrong the absolutness of your assesment:

-In Arthyper Arco started 2 provinces away from a Dominion 10 Ermor, yet Arco made it to the end of the game after a pact with Ermor, C'tis on the other side started in a coastal province with only 1 land neighbour: and that was a st8 indep feudal province...C'tis was one of the 2 initial nations to fall due to that terrible start.

-In TBCim Pyhtium started near Ermor, they agreed on borders & Pythium proceeded to kill first Pangea, then Marignon & then Ulm while Ermor game him a safe Northern border & expanded in another direction. Faced afterwards with a 4 nations alliance Pythium & Ermor upgraded their 'kill you Last' pact to a full alliance & proceeded to win the game. Looks like Pythium did pretty well, uhu?

Ermor [broken empire] is an excellent nation that combines very good troops with some astral and death magic. It is a very capable nation that is worth exploring.

I'd rather play Ashen (but this is mainly personal taste, of course).

Broken Ermor looks like a weak Pythium to me: similar troops, no communicants & hydras, lose strong astral, water & air in exchange for poor astral, poor death & unholy (poor trade IMO).

Trade-offs also from their mages having unholy priestly level: they cannot reanimate & research/cast rituals at the same time.

Cheers,
Pepe

[ January 06, 2004, 12:02: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

But after Evocation 7, Ashen Empire can use Nether Darts. That should be quite potent. And I think they can still use communion, but they don't have the communicants. That is a big difference, but not as big. (I think they have a cheap astral mage).

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

To the original poster:

Others have comented SP, so I will just cover MP:
Ermor IMO is a bit stronger in Dom II than it was in Dom I (where it was rated poorly by most), the elemental magics and in particular Air & Fire are a bit weaker than they were, and those were pretty good at killing undead. Blood has also been downed a lot, and seeing as Ermor had the hardest access to it due to the nature of its population killing dominion this also good news for the undead nation.

You can also do some funny stuff with bless in Dom II, and Ermor has the most design points to draw from here, even if it cannot push recruitment of its unholy troops with as much control as a live nation.

Finally, the Undead pretenders seem to have been upped with the removal of encumbrance from Dom I, which is also good news for Ermor.

Due to all the above I would rate Ashen Empire stronger than it was in Dom I, but not between the top nations...Ermor still has a lot of drawbacks.

It is however a unique nation with an extremely different style, and that makes it a popular choice. In the end, you should play whichever nations attract you more and not those that you percieve as the most powerful, the differences are really not that big and random stuff like starting location & neighbours, or game settings have a much higher influence in who wins IMO. So just play what you like most.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Quote:

Originally posted by Endoperez:
But after Evocation 7, Ashen Empire can use Nether Darts. That should be quite potent. And I think they can still use communion, but they don't have the communicants. That is a big difference, but not as big. (I think they have a cheap astral mage).

I guess you mean Broken & not Ashen.

The mages are far from cheap, only 1 in 8 of the higher class will roll astral 3.

Every R'lyeh top mage starts with astral 3, and can roll up to 5 with random picks. Arco & Pythium start with astral 3 mages that can roll astral 4.

Jotun can roll astral 3 in 1/4 nornas (only sorcery random picks).

All the above nations will Magic duel your Broken Empire mages to nothingess, so you either field no mages or lose them all. Unlike, say Marignon, Abysia or Midgard Vanheim who can choose to field their other (non astral) mages.

And your mages are expensive due to their unholy skill, you cannot afford to throw them away as Jotun can do with the Seithkonur.

Broken Empire looks very weak & narrow magically to me.

Cheers,
Pepe

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel.

<hr /></blockquote>After the bug fix. Before that, the one who cast Magic Duel got a +99 (or +999, absurd number in either case) bonus for him... And that is the reason for the most fear: better mages won allways. This image was formed becose you only used the spell only when you already had the better mages, and AI doesn't seem to ever cast magic duel.

And yes, I meant the Broken, not Ashen Empire. I don't know much about magic duel, I have never seen it used to fully decimate the mages of other side. And I don't know much about mages of Broken Empire, but I assumed they have a cheap mage. How expensive is the Thaumaturg Graeme Dice mentioned? What magics does he have? 1 astral 2 unholy?