.com.unity Forums - Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

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- - Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=18789)

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

A side thing that'd be very cool for water races is the equivalent of the water-breathing army items for land races. I know the ring of the fish will allow for commanders to tread on land (which makes for a happy Aboleth) but I don't know of any items that allow aquatic troops to come ashore. It sure would make those other Water summoning spells (like Call Kraken) far more palatable, particularly on maps like Inland where 90% of your fighting's on land anyway.

If there's already an item like this, just clue me in and ignore my ignorance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

Quote:

Originally posted by Yossar:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gateway103:
Water Shield (combat spell)

Except that there's already a spell called that. <hr /></blockquote>My bad, I meant to augment the existing Water Shield with the effects I listed (I'll edit my post). Sorry if that was unclear. As it stands now, Water Shield is not as useful as say Air/Fire/Astral Shield. But giving it the property I suggested, move it up a level or two in research, and I think it would be more versatile.

-Gateway103

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

Quote:

Originally posted by Gateway103:
Some ideas,

Water Shield (combat spell, improved Version)
- Protect target from fire (50%), as well as 20% of all attacks will miss (imagine a cyclonic barrier of water with high pressure, capable of deflecting incoming attacks. Less effective in hot dominion 2+ (say -5% per heat scale >= 2)
- If used in cold 2+ dominion, result is an Ice Shield that protects from fire (50%), and increase Armour Protection by (4 + cold scale)

Would you have it castable only under water or in land too?

Quote:

Drowning Bubbles (combat spell)
- Single target, target must make MR save or loses 15hp. Receive 2pt damage if successfully resisted. Useless on amphibians, aquatic, or undead. Can't be casted underwater.

Sailor's Death (3W/ Thaum 4): AreaOfEffect spell, throw mr. or die/ take heavy damage as your lungs are filled with water. No effect if resisted. Does not work on creatures that can breat water or do not need to breath.

Quote:

Hail (combat spell)
- BLast a medium sized area with falling icicles. Damage is considered magical and armour piercing.

This and the Ice Wall spells are copies of existing Earth spells... I don't think your idea was to make Water Earth. Also, Earth has mud-kind of spell (Earth Bind?), so you really have to choose which ones to drop out.

Quote:

Summon Geckos (ritual)
- Summon giant size 4 Geckos with recuperation, regeneration, poison attack, poison immunity, high natural protection but low defense skills.
- Summon amount is 4+

Boosted up Bog Beasts? These just have recuperation, regeneration and high protection, and come in faster, and seemingly don't require any Nature at all even though they have many nature-only abilities... Wouldn't it be easier to mod Bog Beasts to be little stronger, and maybe change the summoning to need only one pick in Nature? That would mainly boost those nations that can get Water mages with randoms, but also anyone who winds Jade Amazons... You might not want that.

Quote:

Healing Fluid (combat spell)
- Heals 6~10+ points, plus curing poison & paralysis.

Healing Shower (combat spell)
- Heals 6~10+ points on an area of 3+, plus curing poison& paralysis.

Seems to be taken from Nature (and/or Astral) magic. Check Healing Light (or Rays?), and Healing Mist(s).

Quote:

Cleansing (ritual)
- Each casting has a 10% chance of curing the Diseased affliction [SNIP]

Again, healings of Dominions II are restricted for nature. Anti-poisons go with nature too, although for poisoning the battlefield you need water.

Quote:

Waterway (ritual)
- Allows mages and her troops to travel from one coastal province to another. Cannot be casted in inland provinces

Here is the spell that shines! I didn't really like the others (almost all are already in the game, in one way or other, or are already covered by other magics), but this is something simple yet elegant that gives land-based nations a spell they will happily pour gems into, alhtough this depends from situation. Pocket ship is better though, but everybody can't have it.

Also, if this can be cast UNDER WATER this gives the two (three?) water nations a way to move their forces quckly around. The effect is lessened by the fact that both current nations are strong in Astral, but this is still a very nice spell, IMHO.

Now, I would suggest that you check what spells exist and then post some new ideas. Your ideas were not bad, they just already exist! You said water should have some theme no other paths deal with, so make up few and send them here! I'm interestedt in reading them.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

When you want to design water spells, maybe you have to ask yourself, "what does the element of water and cold represent"

While some spells in circles and schools are spread willy-nilly all over the place, you can see that some themes exist, especially in the elemental spells. Fire is tied with aggression and anger, so you see many fire spells in Evocation and none in construction. Earth is more about fortitude and creation, so it's dominant in construction and you get many unbreakable units from it. Air is most closely tied to themes of deceit and mobility, since you get illusion spells like Phantasmal Warrior, Mists of Deception, and Cloud Trapeze.

What does water represent?

Edit: I feel like The Architect, spouting a bunch of crap and nonsense that's supposed to make people try hard to figure on. Also, I'd like to say that I can't think of a thing that water and cold reflects, therefore water seems to be a scattered and weak discipline.

[ April 17, 2004, 21:18: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

Quote:

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
What does water represent?

Clams ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

- Kel

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

*slap* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ April 17, 2004, 21:34: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

I'm not convinced water is weaker than other paths at all. Sword of Swiftness and Boots of Quickness, Bottle of Living Water, and Clam of Pearls are some great items, for example. Sea Trolls and Ice Devils are quite good. Resist Fire and Cold (etc), Quickness, various other good spells. Water's defensive bless bonus is one of my Favorites for improving blessed combat unit survival.

I do like the coastal transport spell idea.

PvK

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
I'm not convinced water is weaker than other paths at all. Sword of Swiftness and Boots of Quickness, Bottle of Living Water, and Clam of Pearls are some great items, for example. Sea Trolls and Ice Devils are quite good.

The water items are decent, but very limited. Ice devils aren't really water magic, they are blood summons, and like most of blood magic, are very useful. Sea trolls are extremely expensive for what you get out of them. A single casting of Sea King's court costs more than 55 gold per turn in upkeep. Their stats lead to them being little more than a meatshield, as they have extreme difficulty hitting elite troops.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

Quote:

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:

Edit: I feel like The Architect, spouting a bunch of crap and nonsense that's supposed to make people try hard to figure on. Also, I'd like to say that I can't think of a thing that water and cold reflects ...

Water reflects ... light. (Think of looking at your reflection in a calm pond.) So - maybe a spell that reflects other spells, or that reflects missiles. I don't think there's any schools with a spell like this.

Give it a small chance of reflection at low levels of water skill that increases with water skill.

Another thing water represents : tranquility, fluidity, or, ahem "softness, flexibility and life giving". (That Last would be a quote from the description of T'ien C'hi's Master of the Way.)

Sure sounds like Water could be given a non-Nature healing spell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or a ... recuperation spell, for non-combat. Maybe caster-only, takes some amount of gems to cast. Could wear off after a wound was recovered from.

Or - be castable on others, for that matter. Again, taking gems to cast, and wearing off with the death of the caster, just like almost all other spells.

Personally, I'd like the recuperation spell, to avoid all the useless gimpy Pretenders and high-cost commanders.

Or it could be given a damage reduction spell, "Water Form", that reduces damage taken by 25% or so, as water gives before a blow, softening any impact. Less powerful than Mist Form, but still pretty useful.

"Ice Castle" spell - seems silly to me that Nature mages can create an aquatic castle, but powerful Water mages can not. Only castable in cold provinces; possibly castable on land.

New summoning spells - right now, most of Water's summonings either can't leave the water, or can't go in the water. (Sea Trolls are an exception - any others?)

A spell that migrates the temperature to be colder, maybe, considering that so many of Water's spells are cold based.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline

Quote:

Originally posted by Cainehill:
A spell that migrates the temperature to be colder, maybe, considering that so many of Water's spells are cold based.

That would be wolven winter. Alteration 4, water 3, 5 gems.