Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

My response to this would, because we have nothing to go on except the belief that we either evolved from pond scum, or were engineered. I believe that both are valid, or that even combined they are more valid. We are engineered pond scum, or better yet, an engineered virus that kills planets.

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

By saying we evolved from pond scum is simply an overly simplified way of refering to the process of Evolution. Understand, Evolution has no direct purpose except to make use of energy in the most efficient way. What put humans ahead of our other cousins is that we managed to develop a means to plan ahead for the long term. Not one or two seasons, but three or four years and reason out problems that arise.

I do believe our origins tie back to simple ocean dwelling microbes and that via natural competition with other species, we evolved from that and obtained a wholely original place in nature.

Now, the thing about religion and me is choice. religion just didn't make sense to me because it didn't allow me the choices I wanted to make. It is a great foundation for morality and an excellent collection of ethics. Some of my own are drawn from the Bible, the Vedas, Classical Civilization, Native American mythos, and such.

Take the sacrifice of Jesus. It's about one man, willing to die for his belief that humanity can be better than what it was and that his death will wipe earth clean of sin. Go over to India, the God Shiva consumed the sins of the world in his effort to save it - almost killing himself (it's why shive wears a snake around his neck). Both are great tales of self-sacrifice and hope for humanity's better nature.

But I wandered off topic.

I think we occured naturally, not as a fluke or enginneered. Life itself happens where ever it can take root, only the conditions determine how far that goes and what form it takes.

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

I once read in a book the following argument: Out of the three statements below, only two of them can be true:
(1) God is all powerful
(2) God is all good
(3) Terrible things happen

If God knows that there is evil but cannot prevent it, he is not all-powerful. If he doesn't know that there's evil, he's not omnisicent. If he knows that there is evil but does not wish to prevent it, then he is not all good.

The only possible way that all three can be true, is if God knows there is evil in the world but chooses not to stop it for reasons that are beyond our understanding.

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

Mmm, I can think of 2 explanations for terrible things to happen out of my box:

a) It is for a greater good not (yet) seen by us.

b) Free will. The Christian believe is that man was created in the image of good. Man has the ability of free will and choice. He choose to do good or evil, belive or not believe to create or destroy. Hence good can be good and all powerful but choose to give us free will so that evil not by his doing is possible.

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

(boldness mine) AT... have you been watching The Matrix again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Just curious, are you taking the (God >= Universe) position here, or something else? If it is the former, is it of the "more than" or "same as" variety?

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

Personally whenever anything comes up questioning belief my attitude tends to be "who cares". Some would say that beliefs are harmful and the same effects can be achieved by science. Trading "faith in an outside source" for things like "power of positive thinking" or "self-hypnosis". But for many people having strong faith in self or science is more difficult therefore achieves less good. Best results are still a good goal and I dont really care how anyone gets there.

-- [sig file]
Be thankful. Be thankful to God, Goddess, Thetans, Honorable Ancestors, Spirit Guides, or the Random Chance Happenings over Millions of Millenia. But be thankful.

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

Will, I honestly don't know what position I am taking other than to say that the universe is virtually endless and is the oldest thing known to man therefore there are bound to be things that we do not yet understand, and perhaps the concept of God is one of them.

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

I think the original question boils down to "do you believe in God, or do you not?" Hence, it seems that the only sensible answer is this: We do not currently have enough information to form a valid hypothesis.

I mean, think about it. If God exists, then why does he allow suffering? And at the same time, creates such beautiful things that fill us with awe, such as the Northern (or Southern) lights, a snowcapped mountain seen in the distance, or a beautiful woman. Why? That's what I'd love to know.

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

Actually the original question has nothing to do with the belief in God, but rather .... wait ... yes I guess your right, it does in a way. But please do not take it that way.

I just wanted opinions on the original question without it being distorted or misinturpted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Did God Invent Us, Or Did We Invent Him
 

Sorry AT, guess I'm one of the one's who misinterpreted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif Trust me, I'm good at it. Do it all the time in fact.