Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

Star Trek, B5, Farscape, Star Wars, they are all Science Fiction, with a capital FICTION and a lower case science.

So the writers in Star Trek always fall back on a few tried and true plot devices. That is the problem with having a franchise like this. You can't really kill off anyone (unless they wear a red shirt of course) but you have to come up with some sort of drama for the stories to be compelling and get peoples interest.

Star Trek is like your Uncle Gene, everybody's got one. He always tells these fantastic stories about places he's been and things he's done. You've known since you were 12 he was full of crap most of the time, but they are great stories so you keep coming back for more.

B5 doesn't use the techno babble as much, but they have their plot devices for sure. The good guys are always about to get wiped out when suddenly a new race arrives that turns the tide. Can anybody say "Cavalry Charge"? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

B5 also has longer story arcs so it's not quite so obvious as in star trek. They don't have to wrap up the story at the end of every episode like TNG and VOY. I think that is why Ds9 was probably more popular with non-trek fans than any of the other series. But it also bothered som hard-core trekkies.

Geo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 16 May 2001).]

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbob55:
Um. Where did i put my sonic screwdriver....

Space opera using 'science' should at least try to remain consistent. ST:TNG would be a lot easier to stomach if they didn't rely on 'the quantum string in his bootlaces is disrupting our crapion array' in order to generate a plot.

"Captain, we appear to have been sucked in by a recurring plot line."
"What does this mean Mr data?"
"It means we are doomed to repeat the plot from a first generation star trek episode using different technobabbel."
"Gawd help us all, go to red alert."
"Are you sure sir? It does mean we'll have to change the bulb".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, this is why I finally got sick of Trek. NO consistency in the technology/imaginary universe. TOTAL consistency in the recycled stories. Bleh... At least with B5 they take more than one episode to resolve a crisis so the course of a given episode is not so utterly predictable. And, hey, the limitations and advantages of their technologies don't change from one episode to the next!

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogscoff:
yeah, i prefer B5 too, because it focusses more on the politics / relationships of the future than the technology.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They *did* do some technobabble of a sort in "A Spider in the Web", or at least Garibaldi tried to reconfigure the internal sensors so they could detect this assassin running around the station. Garibaldi's efforts resulted in the door to the room opening and closing repeatedly.

["Guess it's harder than I thought."]

They do show reinforcements coming in at the right moment more than a few times on B5. Good thing is it looks cool.

["If you value your lives, BE SOMEWHERE ELSE!"]


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--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They do show reinforcements coming in at the right moment more than a few times on B5. Good thing is it looks cool.

["If you value your lives, BE SOMEWHERE ELSE!"]
[/b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awesome B5 episode!

I love Star Trek. But I don't think there will ever be a Sci-Fi series that comes close to B5. JmS put in a heck of a lot of work writing every single episode of the show for those many years. I think Babylon 5 will be the standard to which all Sci-Fi series will be compared for many years to come.

Another thing I really liked about B5 was its (to me) much more realistic view of the future of mankind. Instead of this incredibly happy, positive image of a mankind that doesn't use money anymore, you have the same rat race in the future but with cooler technology. Do you remember the episode where Sheridan and Ivanova were going to be kicked out of their large quarters if they didn't pay the difference in price?

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

Love B5... have to get all the episodes togther somewhen, take a week off work, invite my brother round and see if we can get from start to finish in on sitting=-)

Quote:
I read that they only had ~4 basic plot lines.
/Quote

I once tried to create a "scifi plot code website" but it was too hard. The idea was that there are only a few scifi (read: star trek) plot elements which are jumbled around to crate the plots. Thse elements could be represented by a short code, summarising an entire episode in a line or two of text.
For example, that episode in TNG where Troi has her mind taken over by aliens (again):

Aptl - CMp - Rp

which translates as
Alien: powerful, tinkerbell, learning - Crew Member: Posessed - Resolution: pyschobabble

Or, "All powerful, Tinkerbell- like (ie little balls of light) aliens who wish to learn about the Enterprise take control of a Crew member. Everyone sits down and talks about it and it's all OK"

That one where Lore had an army of Borg and then took control of Data, on the other hand, might be

Ede - CMp - Rr

Enemy: duplicate, evil - Crew Member: posession - Resolution: revolt

Or, "An evil duplicate of a crew member takes control of a crew member. The problem is resolved when the Enterprise crew inspire popular revolt in the enemy's oppressed underclass."


It was all too complicatd in the end, but you get the idea. Trouble was, there was an exception to every rule.


(BTW I know those plot lines might not be accurate, it's a while since I watched it.)

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

Various people have claimed that all of literature has only a limited number of plots. Here's a FAQ with several of the classifications people have come up with:
http://www.ipl.org/ref/QUE/FARQ/plotFARQ.html


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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

I am not afraiid to admit I am a Star Trek fan, although I have never dressed up like a Klingon and gone to a convention. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

There are some reasons that trek has continuity problems. It has been written by dozens, if not hundreds of different writers over the years, where B5 is basically one mans idea.

Also the ST foundation was laid in the 60's and they have had to find a way to update it, without throwing out the basic ideas laid down in the past. It wouldnn't make sense for exammple, if the TNG warp drive was different than the TOS warp drive because of some discovery made in the 1990's would it?

Yeah they have an annoying habit of coming up with technobabble ways to get out of situations, and then convienently forget them the next week when they are in a situation where the same idea could have applications. No defense for that one really.

Star Trek for me has always been about the characters and personalities. The tech is just there to move the story along. To add drama, and sometimes to end it, so that we can get a sense of how these people react in stressful situations.

At its worst, it's admitadly very bad science, and even very bad fiction. But at its best, it's inspiring, uplifting, and very entertaining.

If you culled out the best 100 episodes of ST out of the hundreds that have been aired, they hold up very well against any other sci-fi series I have ever seen.

If you ask the real life scientists, astronauts, and those types, I believe you would find more than a few who would say Star Trek is one of the big influences in their lives that got them where they are today.

Geo

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also the ST foundation was laid in the 60's and they have had to find a way to update it, without throwing out the basic ideas laid down in the past. It wouldnn't make sense for exammple, if the TNG warp drive was different than the TOS warp drive because of some discovery made in the 1990's would it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OTOH, that hasn't stopped them from changing what the warp speed numbers mean from series to series. That was a deliberate decision by someone, not a continuity error.

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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

What was it they called in the the 'cage' pilot episode..."Time wrap factor" I think.

At least we didn't have to put up with that for 30 years. lol

Re: What polarity can we reverse today?
 

I'm curious, has anyone seen the new show Andromeda... if so what do you think about it? Personally I like it quite a bit, it seems "up-to-date" on tech (although still sci-fi), armor not shields... missiles are kings & you better have point defense... nanotech everywhere... lots of genetic manipulation, etc. I'll admit the "slipstream" is a bit hokey, but o'well.

I watched TNG, I liked DS9 best but Voy is decent. B5 rules though!