Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

You are all correct, what more can be said?

I too get extremely frustrated with SE 5 UI's lack of intuitiveness and generally believe that next to game crashing bugs, weak AI, and nescience bugs, the UI is the largest problem with the game.

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

The UI -- if I click on a hex containing a planet and several other items (ships, sats, etc) it is more difficult to choose the one you want (right click doesn't work) and give it orders.

Why cant I just click and drag a ship where I want it to go?

Why have I been unable reliably to give a ship multiple orders like pick up cargo, fly over there, drop SOME of the cargo and keep moving. It was easier in SE4

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

The UI isn't just one issue that can have a *snap* you are fixed answer. The UI isn't all that bad to me anyway. I have certainly seen worse even if I have seen better. Now I'm going off track; if it is the UI and you have to take that as your one answer what would you suggest as a role model to base an improved UI from?

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

Really? I can right click just fine? I can also Shift+Click to get multiple ships.

What if you want it to go through a warp point to an unexplored system? How do you tell the game you want to warp if drag and drop means move? How about a planet 5 systems away, how are you going to drag and drop to a system map that isn't selected?

Huh? This is SE5 you are talking about right? Do you mean you can give the order but it isn't as easy as in SE4?

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

That's it, but just one, what game crashing bugs lets start there!

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

What you are asking is not really possible to tell IMO. Because there isnt any ONE 'mission-critical' problem with SE5 that I can see. If there were, that would make it much easier to correct.

The 'problem' with SE5 IMO is a combination of subtle things, many of which are touched on above. I am the one in my gaming group that decided to buy and try SE5 despite the poor reviews and less than glowing feedback from many SE4 fanatics. And when my friends ask me about it, I still cant put my finger directly on it.

The end result is that SE5 just doesnt seem 'fun' IMO. And that is about as subjective as you can get! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Whether its the UI or bugs or unfinished features or poor AI or whatever I dont know...but the result is the same...I start a game, play for 15-20 turns, lose interest, save the game, and then not bother with it for a few weeks when I repeat the process again.

So, if you want to sum it up in one problem, I guess that would be it..."IMO, SE5 isnt fun at the moment".

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

That may be true for you but that won't help to make it fun in the future. What I would like to do here is start to understand the problems that can be addressed. Just saying it ain't fun isn't going to improve anything. Not that I am saying your opinion is less valid than a person who specifies a bug with examples. To you it is a valid point. That is also the problem I keep seeing and the reason for me starting this thread. I see people say it isn't good. I see people argue why others think it isn't good. But can any one of you name a specific thing? You don't go to a store and pick a new TV because it feels right. You pick it because the other TV's had something wrong that you didn't like. What is that wrong thing? Would it help if I opened this up a bit by saying you can name more than one thing?

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

There is no "one" thing. As said before there are numerous small things that kill the fun in the game. Here are some of my top examples (all of these have been posted about numerous times):

1) The UI sucks, specifically:
-- too many mousclicks overall
-- too many double-clicks
-- no drag & drop
-- can't see info you want on screens that you make decisions. 1 examples of many:
---- Research: what did I gain on the last couple of levels of this tech so I can determine if it is worth it to research another level?

2) The AI sucks. No explanation necessary. This is significant because most buyers of a game don't play multiplayer more than single player.

3) There are too many bugs, many of them still crash the game.

4) The "rate" or "pace" of the game seems too slow. SE:IV had it just about perfect to give that "just one more turn" feeling. SEV is far off the mark. Balance Mod is a great improvement, but, no offense, not there yet and still overshadowed by the other issues that can't be currently addressed by modding.

5) There are several game mechanics that are not fun:
-- retreating. A ship with even 1 less movement point can successfully and repeatably keep retreating from superior forces.
-- needing to constantly fiddle with research allocation. I don't know if most people do this, but I do because it bugs the crap out of me to lose research points when you spend more than required on the last level, which you can't know you are at unless you constantly check the data files or memorize them over time. BTW each turn research points change due to construction, happiness, etc.
-- the pathing routine sucks. I'm not sure what the fix is, but the "Stutter Step Dance" illustrates one problem with it nicely:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...&Forum=f23

6) A big one for me is not being able to have the game process a turn with the game minimized. Who in SE:IV didn't surf the web or do other things when the game was processing a turn. Not anymore under SEV unless you use crappy winDOHed mode.

7) Having to keep coming back to lists to get things done one at a time. Each time, based on the delay and the reordering, it seems the game recalculates the list. Very tedious. Only the Log remembers where you were at. One example: I'd like to select multiple construction queues and place them on hold with one click, and then later release the holds all at once.



I'm sure you get the idea; I'm not going to rant or make a huge list here, but, taken individually, many of these wouldn't make too much difference, but taken in total, the game just isn't fun.

I will probably upset some people here with the following, but please don't be offended. It appears to me that too much effort was spent making the game super-moddable; so much so that MM either consiously or unconsiously is expecting the modding community to improve the game for him, at least the AI. And this effort took away time from making a fun game. I know that many people find fun in modding and that's great, but it sure looks to me like SEV to date has been more an exercise in making a game engine, with little to no work on making a fun game - expecting the fans to make it fun by fiddling with all the modability. I think I personally might have preferred a less moddable game that was fun out of the box. Just my opinion here, folks, please don't take offense.


I know that everyone, myself included, WANTS to love this game and is giving it more than a fair chance. I know that there is every reason to expect that someday after lots of patches and a long time, many of these issues would be fixed. I give great credit to MM for unsurpassed support of games after release.

Bottom line is that SEV is not fun, but everyone mostly agrees that it has the potential to be great. Time spent waiting and dealing with the problems frustrates a lot of people so much that they may be lost forever. And the absolute bottom line is that a game that isn't very fun isn't very profitable.

* steps off of soap box and thanks people for not being offended *

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

I largely agree with Slick. There are multiple killers for me, though I hope/expect enough of them to be patched eventually. Meanwhile, I have more polished games to play (e.g. Dominions 3, SE4 ...).

UI problems undermine the new features (e.g. no way to easily manage many units, tedious design UI, ship system status display practically stalls my 1.4GHz GeForce 4Ti computer, ...).

New features not developed enough so they cause gameplay problems, such as the retreat feature (which I DO want - I just want it implemented _well_) being improperly implemented.

etc... Modded SE4 is far more appealing for now.

PvK

Re: What is the problem with SE5?
 

Slick the first half of that was great. That is what I want to hear about so I can understand what is going on. Here is the two problems I had. First and foremost you speak of everyone and the majority. You aren't the voice of the crowd and I wish to avoid comments like those. Why? I want the crowd to speak up and add their thoughts. Second problem, what game crashing bugs? Tell me and show me them. I keep reading that the game is crashing but when? I haven't had a crash since something like pre-1.17(?or maybe 8?).