Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

Actually, skelly spam is all you need. If you're facing a very early supercombatant with no area attack, just keep them fighting until they run away, or fall unconscious. If you've got single d necros, you can just animate one at a time with several, or spend 5 on the world map. Just be prepared to counter any supporting priests.

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

I dunno, it all goes back to that label thing. To me, an SC can by definiton deal with skelly spam.

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

Not if they're the father of frost- then you need to wait until you've climbed the spell tree. I was talking about my experiences with an awake Father of Frost.

Early on, an unequipped Father of Frost (with the right spells), is a super that can take on armies of anything but the undead, with their cold immunity and zero encumberance.

Later, skelly spam counters exist, but I'm talking early game supers. What supers can take out an army of, say, 100 undead within the first year?

I do make it a priority to get reinvig asap, and then fatigue is unworrying, and there's other upgrades I may do.

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

Hmm. Most of my pretenders can take out a 100 strong undead army by turn 12.
Firebrands do wonders. In the one MP game I am at turn 12ish, my pretender has
a firebrand/charcoal shield, reinvigoration 8, regeneration, and casts Air shield,
Quicken self, Stoneskin, Mirror image and Mistform. There is not much that
can faze him except for casters. (Magic resistance is below 21 only because he
tends to fight outside of his domain... of course)

By turn 20ish, he will be invulnerable to ANY amount of ANY troops. Of course, by
then he will be sitting in a lab, because nothing can save a SC from a custom
tailored death squad.

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

An E9N9 Hierophant Centaur has zero encumbrance after reinvig is accounted for. I expect he'd be able to take out 100 undead with some minor equipment.

-Max

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

Funny you should mention that now. I thought I'd get away with casting Gift of Health at a 50% discount site, with AC up. Umor was not amused. The Treelord who cast it was expecting something a little less exciting, so he was only armed with a few swarms and Ardmon's Soul Trap.

Umor managed to increase his HP to 75 (from base 55) by feasting on the little buggers. With MR3 they didn't last very long because of the blood vengeance, otherwise he might have been able to eat a few more.

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

Who's Umor?

Anyways, LA Atlantis doesn't have any access to firemagic, or firebrands. Though access to Frost Brand is guaranteed and shadow brands common enough.

I do get easy access in my build or any nature shaman to +2 reinvig, which is enough to equalize encumbrance.

I ruled out the Frost Brand because of cold resistance on undead, and I just sort of figured that the Shadow Brand wouldn't be any good against undead. But looking at "Leeching Darkness", I see no reason it wouldn't do a number on Undead. Does shadow brand do a number on undead?

How is dual weapons or multiple attack weapons like Wave Breaker factor into the fatigue equation. I know that quickness seems to double fatigue rate, practically speaking, but do the two things I mentioned cost you fatigue once, or twice? And does reinvig take place at the end of the entire combat round, every action, or whatever?

Thanks. Now, about minor equipment, MaxWilson, are you talking construction 2 or less? I don't see how you could take out 100 at one a round before you had to auto-retreat/die, unless I'm overlooking some way to increase your kill rate.

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

My Abysian Prince of darkness with nature 2, earth 4, death 4, blood 3, equipped with 2 firebrands, fireplate, dragon helm, lucky amulet and firestone will take out 100 undead. especially next turn when he gets personal regen. although i wish i had went nature 4, earth 2 instead. so that way i could forge shrouds to keep my old mages alive thru regen.

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

Encumbrance happens once per full action. Wielding two weapons does not double encumbrance, but quickness does. Reinvig happens once per round, so if you have good reinvig quickness can actually hurt you.

Minor equipment: yes, say, gloves of the gladiator, horned helmet, black steel plate. [a little while later] Okay, I retract that conjecture. Even with prot 23 and regen 4, my centaur hierophant only managed to kill 7 of the 48 C'tisian soulless he was up against. Encumbrance wasn't the problem, it was just that 23 prot really isn't all that high. I have new respect for Wraith Lords now.

-Max

Re: armor vs defense stat for SC
 

Anyone with the defenses/hp to last a while and who can cast fire shield? (Do any pretenders have a native fire shield?)

A flying SC pretender with orders to attack rear, hoping to kill the leaders.

Decked out starspawn mindblasting. (Or other spells that ignore mindless units.)