Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/Image...s/icon_eek.gif http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/Image...s/icon_eek.gif

Okay, so how you guys ferreted these numbers out looks like black magic to me, but if I'm reading that right, the scales bug will probably go SQUISH come patch time, and it looks like this same thing explains the so far unsatisfactorily covered random dominion spread to faraway provinces (previously thought to result from the skipping in Dominion spread mechanics according to one hypothesis).

I'm also wondering if the corrupted geotable could be behind the bug where two opposing armies are unable to move against each other or armies getting "stuck" for no particular reason, which has been discussed earlier at some length.

calmon, vfb, great job! Props also to IndyPendant who got the whole Vanishing Scales discussion restarted and to Lord_Bob whose thread helped explore some of the scale mechanic possibilities and eliminate them as a consideration.

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

Ok i did some more tests with 2 games (each with brand new dominions open) and 5 First turn hosts for each game.

Now i can't find the bug in provinces with 6 or less provinces as neighbours. All bugs occurs in provinces with 7 or more neighbours!

It seems you found it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

Nice vfb. Looks like you are on to something here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

Thanks! I'd still like to have a look at Edratman's map later, where he had a 9-neighbor province and did not see bugs. So there may be a little more to it, but for now ... always start a clean instance of the application for new games, and try to avoid home provinces with more than 6 neighbors.

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

Well the bug doesn't occurs every time when having more than 6 provinces.

I think when having more than 6, the chance getting it increases with every additional neighbour.

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

I'm not sure. In the games I debugged, it definitely looks at the 7th neighbor first, and if it is foreign and there is any scale difference, it will first remove that scale from the home province. Then it moves on to the first neighbor, and if it is foreign it totally removes any positive (aka negative aka good) scales from the home province that do not exist in the first neighbor (looping up to 19 times just to make sure).

If you can please attach a save of a 7-neighbor game where the scale bug does not occur, I might be able to find out more exceptions to the above.

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

Sure, here it is. The game is called "Dominions Closed and New" and its the second turn. Look at oceania which still have all scales and there are 10 neighbors. (If you need the First turn files just write it)

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

Great! Thanks calmon.

Okay, now I understand what offset 0x41 in the land table is. It's whose dominion is in the province. I thought it was the owner of the province.

The 7th neighbor of 53 in your file is 47. It's under Oceania dominion.

Once your dominion spreads to either province 7 or province 1, then the scale bug should disappear. At least until it reappears for another reason http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. This also helps explain why the more neighbors you have over 6, the more likely you are to see the problem. Dom spread happens before scale adjustments, so with exactly 7 provinces you've got a decent chance to hit #1 or #7 before your scales get whacked. With 15 provinces (hello water nations) the chance of that happening is less.

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

In the epic heroes II game the Tithe Collector of Marigon makes a giant statue of vfb.
____

In my game as R'lyey where I am on turn 69, and still witnessing the scale bug, my home province is 115 in Cradle which is surrounded by 10 provinces. I have had positive dominion in my home province, but very few in any of the neigboring provinces. In province 78 I have another fort which is surrounded by 10 provinces, and I am encountering the same thing. So the bug just doesn't occur in the home province. It occurs for any province at any time in the game where you have positive dominion in that province, but not in the surrounding 7+ provinces.

This explains why the bug seems to happen with R'lyey so much, and why it occurs on some maps more then others.

vfb. You are a genius.

Re: New theory about the scale bug: >6 neighbors
 

Ha ha ha, no, not a genius, just got friendly with the debugger. But thanks in advance for the statue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To fix 115 in Cradle, you could try to to expand your dominion to 130, that's the 7th neighbor in the map file. 91 should help too, it's the 1st neighbor.

You are right about other provinces, they are vulnerable to the bug too. To fix your dominion in 78, expand your dominion to 82, that's the 7th neighbor. 53 should help too, it's the 1st neighbor.

Time to put your Insane Void Cultists to work at some preaching! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif