Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

My take is that there should be something at Conjuration 9 for each path.

Or perhaps a generic "Summon Dragon" that can be cast by any level 9 caster no matter what the path--it's just what you get will be based on whatever path(s) the caster has.

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

For dragons I had the idea of a spell summoning a dragon egg, then you'll have to shapechange it each turn during a five or six turns, to end with an adult dragon -with young dragon forms before the last one- (the only problem is : with actual mod commands the egg would be able to shapechange each round of combat).

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

I fully agree. But one must learn how to dance one step at a time. Perfecting certain basic moves is essential to having the background to accurately plan off of highly unexpected circumstances. It is one thing to end up with a different gem balance than you are used to, quite another to suddenly have 18 Prot archers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Anyways, let's see what I can do for ideas -

Balrog - E/F - demon, flying, fear, heat aura
Ettin - E - Ambi, extra head slot
Cockatrice - E/F - Petrify, flying
Treant - N - mobile treelord, summon ally: vine ogre
Sasquatch - A/N - trample, cold aura
Olm - W/E - mind blast, enslave mind
Gorgon - E/N - (really, just like the pretender)
Void Hunter - S - similar to Void Lord, alternative to Wish
Shishi - A - flying, standard, lightning
Celestial Master - A/S - samurai or monk, draw from Raiden from MK


I'll think of more later, I need to go for awhile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

Before I run, that's a good start Llama, I like it. For some reason though, I'd have to disagree on the wyrm. To me, it almost seems as if it more belongs as a summon, and LESS as a pretender. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Somehow a being that lacks magic (of course, most people put SOMETHING on their wyrm, for buffs anyhow), doesn't seem very awe inspiring or worship-worthy. If the wyrm and the coatl traded places, it would make plenty of sense. But, just making the wyrm into a summons (and letting it stay as a pretender option) would be fine also. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

I doubt the Nataraja or Destroyer of Worlds should be summonable because they're based off of specific hindu gods (forget which ones though, I think the one with the severed head and all the anti demon weapons is based on Kali, although nobody should quote me on that) and the various "Lord/Son of ..." titans probably wouldn't make for good summons unless a given player were to rationalize summoning other gods to help him out as building up a pantheon (there's a thought, instead of just pretender god vs. pretender god, it's pretender pantheon vs. pretender pantheon). The other assorted monstrous pretender types would definitely make for solid endgame summons though. I'd still like to see a lot of nation specific summons as well as more general one though, although that's me.

Just a thought, despite the fact that it changes nothing about how awesome blood magic is for the endgame, I'd like to see LA Marignon get some national blood summons for more specifically Christian demons. I mean, it gets all those sweet angelic summons for the middle era, so it's firmly a Christian-inspired nation, and yet it's got nothing specifically Christian for its horrifyingly corrupt late era except for the angels which still hang around for some reason despite the whole nation being based entirely on how much it loves to sacrifice virgins and torture people. I suppose the vast majority of blood summons are already pretty well based on Christian mythology, but there have to be at least a few demons, specific individuals or otherwise, just waiting to be turned into summonable minions.

Also yet more ideas, Machacka is supposed to have a dead god sleeping in their mountain, right? Well I think by the time endgame magics start getting tossed around, it's high time they woke his *** up. Also, just so they can have more than one endgame monster running around, how about size 6 divine spiders with an awe or fear aura that just bust all kinds of heads in.

And for Pangaea, I think carrion summons are awesome, and also things like the carrion dragon are cool as hell, so why not push the carrion-related envelope. Having a really high level summon that just calls up a carrion tartarian would be wacky as hell and pretty much the best thing. Failing that, any unit's carrion equivalent would be fun to play around with.

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

I'm seeing a lot of monster-type summons in the list you all are putting out. While I definitely like my monsters, you have to keep in mind that monster-type commanders are not nearly as useful as titan-type commanders in the late game due to the difference in slots. If you are trying to balance out the endgame SCs, you might want to concentrate on units that have all (or most) slots.

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

Monsters can be great, they just have to be cheap, mobile, and commanders so they can serve as raiders. They won't hold up against a titan, but if you can get 4 dragons for 1 geared out titan that seems pretty reasonable.

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

Death: Grim Reaper, stealthy, autocasts Wind of Death before every battle. Has a magical scythe with okay stats + cause decay.

And... that's all I've got today, besides reminding you of the oft-mentioned Hecatonchires. Honestly it's hard to come up with new summons that aren't pretenders because KO knows so much more mythology than I do. I'd suggest Lovecraft but to be honest I'm not even totally sure what Shoggoths are.

-Max

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

It should be fairly straight forward to do a mod with a couple of late end (Summon 8 or 9) Titan & Dragon type chassis for Nature, Fire, Water, Air and possibly Earth.

I think the really good restricted Pretenders like the Gorgan should not be used. Leave them for wishes or their powers. I would make sure most have limited 'special' powers. Just some resistances - the Air ones being shock resistant perhaps. Rather than stack them up with fear and awe etc.

They just need a small number of magic paths with the Titan types either costing more (or being at 9 and the Dragon types at 8?) or require very high caster levels. They don't need to be as cheap as tartarians or compete with the Angels.

Re: The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Threa
 

Shoggoths are already in the game -- think Othernesses. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Not sure that I'd agree that every path requires a super-summon. The problem is to balance nations, not to balance paths; if one nation has a very strong early game with cheap F9W9 but cap-only sacreds, and another comes into its prime during late-game due to summons et al, and another is best suited towards lavish but expensive scales for cranking out high-quality conventional armies during a good midgame -- that seems reasonable. No need for mirror-image balance.